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Kiint
VeteranXX
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Old
301 - 10-01-2013, 18:51
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Okay, I admit I haven't really read much about "Obamacare" what does it actually entail?

Is it like Australia's (and Canada/UK's) healthcare model where taxes are used to fund hospitals/healthcare. There are public hospitals where you can go for healthcare without no out of pocket expenses, yes there are waiting lists, but critical and emergency procedures are given priorities and you aren't left in a waiting room to die while your insurance checks our (or you're kept alive with a 6 figure bill at the end).

We also have private insurance and private hospitals that provide a better quality of health care, and if you so choose, you can purchase private health insurance and skip waiting times and get better quality of healthcare, however you always have the safety net of the public system if you are out of work, or whatever.

In short, in Australia you *can* choose to purchase private health cover with all its benefits, however you will always have the safety net of the public health care system which will ensure you will never have a massive out of pocket bill for "essential" healthcare. Things like elective surgery (plastic surgery, etc) will always incur bills because it's not critical/emergency/etc.

For example, you have a headache. You can go to a bulk billing GP for an initial diagnosis, through this diagnosis it is discovered there is a tumour. You get a referral to a specialist who will give you an MRI to confirm the tumour diagnosis (no out of pocket expense), you then get put into a queue and since it's a tumour you get bumped up near the front of the list automatically (its critical) where you get operated on, and finally once the tumour is removed, it is tested to see if it was benign etc. You leave hospital with a moderate bill (usually at most low four figure) for ancillary care such as anaesthetic etc which is typically claimed back through the public healthcare system (Medicare) for an ultimately low cost, or no cost experience.

Why can't you do that in the USA? It's all about taxes.
 
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MadHatSam
VeteranX
Old
302 - 10-01-2013, 18:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiint View Post
Okay, I admit I haven't really read much about "Obamacare" what does it actually entail?

Is it like Australia's (and Canada/UK's) healthcare model where taxes are used to fund hospitals/healthcare. There are public hospitals where you can go for healthcare without no out of pocket expenses, yes there are waiting lists, but critical and emergency procedures are given priorities and you aren't left in a waiting room to die while your insurance checks our (or you're kept alive with a 6 figure bill at the end).

We also have private insurance and private hospitals that provide a better quality of health care, and if you so choose, you can purchase private health insurance and skip waiting times and get better quality of healthcare, however you always have the safety net of the public system if you are out of work, or whatever.

In short, in Australia you *can* choose to purchase private health cover with all its benefits, however you will always have the safety net of the public health care system which will ensure you will never have a massive out of pocket bill for "essential" healthcare. Things like elective surgery (plastic surgery, etc) will always incur bills because it's not critical/emergency/etc.

For example, you have a headache. You can go to a bulk billing GP for an initial diagnosis, through this diagnosis it is discovered there is a tumour. You get a referral to a specialist who will give you an MRI to confirm the tumour diagnosis (no out of pocket expense), you then get put into a queue and since it's a tumour you get bumped up near the front of the list automatically (its critical) where you get operated on, and finally once the tumour is removed, it is tested to see if it was benign etc. You leave hospital with a moderate bill (usually at most low four figure) for ancillary care such as anaesthetic etc which is typically claimed back through the public healthcare system (Medicare) for an ultimately low cost, or no cost experience.

Why can't you do that in the USA? It's all about taxes.
Some of it is basic cultural differences, others issues such as population densities and dealing with existing property rights. Plenty of political opposition both logical and illogical. At some point the US will have a system that is more like Europe/Canada/Australia but how we get there is the issue. Or we might find a way to remove the corruption/waste/inefficiencies from our current systems, enact the proper regulations to encourage innovation and promote competition well still creating cost certainty for consumers.....
 
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Putrid
VeteranX
Old
303 - 10-01-2013, 19:17
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Originally Posted by Kiint View Post
Okay, I admit I haven't really read much about "Obamacare" what does it actually entail?

In a nutshell, all americans are now required by law to buy insurance through private party business. There is no government healthcare insurance (safety-net) except medicaid or medicare which is only for the poorest of the poor and the elderly.


The insurance that most now HAVE to purchase by law are held by private corporations whose bottom line is profit and money in the pockets of their share-holders.

You will pay your premium every month anywhere from $80 to $500 or more per month depending on where you live in the country and what your economic status is.
The less you pay the higher your deductibles, your out of pocket costs will be. No matter what plan you choose you will have deductibles and out of pocket costs.

Insurance in america even under obamacare is not a get out of hospital free card. you will incur costs, and not all procedures are guaranteed to be covered, even after you pay your premiums the insurance companies can deny coverage for certain procedures, meds, care.

For those who see this clearly, the government is subsidizing the big business of health insurance and forcing all americans to get on board.

There are a few concessions to the insured, you can't be denied the chance to buy insurance, you can't be turned down because of pre-existing conditions, and the government, through the IRS, will help subsidize your premium if you are under the poverty line.



 
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Fonzie
VeteranXV
Old
304 - 10-01-2013, 19:20
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Originally Posted by Hologram View Post
modern != socialized

So let me get this straight: On the topic of abortion, many people say "it's my body I should be able to do what I want with it, the government doesn't own my body." (with regards to abortion being banned or not). A lot of these same people also hold the contradictory viewpoint that the government should be allowed to force everyone to buy health insurance or be fined. So whose body is it?
this is pretty much my exact argument on the situation.

also the laughable fact that people say this isn't a tax.
 
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Nash
Nazi Admin++
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Old
305 - 10-01-2013, 19:21
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This **** will never work if youve a for-profit system in place.
It cant.
 
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SniperWhôre
VeteranX
Old
306 - 10-01-2013, 19:26
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Originally Posted by Ender View Post
you're an idiot if you think obamacare increases premiums by that much.

fact: Obamacare will increase premiums 2-4% due to the 3 new taxes on insurance carriers. anything more than that is insurance carriers trying to use the ACA to sneak a higher rate increase.
You're very much wrong. We've already seen a 40% increase on ours, directly chalked up to the added expenses of ACA by the provider, and they have just sent us a notice that further increases are expected by the end of the year.

News reports are everywhere showing the same, 190% increase on many in Tennessee, nationally it is up on average 60% for a 40 year old male.

It is insane.
 
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Apathy
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Old
307 - 10-01-2013, 19:31
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Originally Posted by naptown View Post
my 2 kidney stone surgeries cost over 60k

i had insurance at the time and they're trying to fight me about it

****ing sham
ya ive had 3 surgeries that rate from less severe to more severe than a kidney stone, a few MRis and a couple cat scans.

I did not pay any more than I wouldve had I not gotten anything worse than the flu all that time (minus prescriptions, but my work insurance covers that)
 
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Apathy
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Old
308 - 10-01-2013, 19:33
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Originally Posted by Putrid View Post
In a nutshell <lots more text>



your country is sickening.

thanks for explaining that to me, I wasnt sure what obamacare was really either.

how ass backwards can one nation get?
 
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MadHatSam
VeteranX
Old
309 - 10-01-2013, 19:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperWhôre View Post
You're very much wrong. We've already seen a 40% increase on ours, directly chalked up to the added expenses of ACA by the provider, and they have just sent us a notice that further increases are expected by the end of the year.

News reports are everywhere showing the same, 190% increase on many in Tennessee, nationally it is up on average 60% for a 40 year old male.

It is insane.
I loathe Obamacare, but it is giving the insurers too much credit to assume they are telling the truth about why they are raising rates.
 
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SniperWhôre
VeteranX
Old
310 - 10-01-2013, 19:40
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Not really...there are a boatload of new taxes and expenditures on the providers now, under ACA. They have had to completely retool their business model to accommodate the insane standards for what all must be covered. And, as wonderful and heartwarming as it sounds to guarantee that nobody who has a pre-existing condition can be told no, telling any for-profit business that they have no choice in the matter and must enter into a business relationship ( or tens of thousands of them actually) that are essentially guaranteed to lose them money, is only going to drive up their costs for everyone else.
 
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Putrid
VeteranX
Old
311 - 10-01-2013, 19:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadHatSam View Post
I loathe Obamacare, but it is giving the insurers too much credit to assume they are telling the truth about why they are raising rates.
why wouldn't they lie, the government is pushing trillions into this pie and the private companies are sure to be wanting their large piece.



 
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Fonzie
VeteranXV
Old
312 - 10-01-2013, 19:42
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do you not carry health insurance? cause you've got "fine" written all over you #govtshutdownpickuplines
 
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MadHatSam
VeteranX
Old
313 - 10-01-2013, 19:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperWhôre View Post
Not really...there are a boatload of new taxes and expenditures on the providers now, under ACA. They have had to completely retool their business model to accommodate the insane standards for what all must be covered. And, as wonderful and heartwarming as it sounds to guarantee that nobody who has a pre-existing condition can be told no, telling any for-profit business that they have no choice in the matter and must enter into a business relationship ( or tens of thousands of them actually) that are essentially guaranteed to lose them money, is only going to drive up their costs for everyone else.
Yeah, I don't doubt some increase in the costs are because of complying with the ACA, but also...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Putrid View Post
why wouldn't they lie, the government is pushing trillions into this pie and the private companies are sure to be wanting their large piece.



 
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Captain Tele
Veteran³
Immigrant
Old
314 - 10-01-2013, 19:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Animo View Post
if it was called "RomneyCare" everyone would be for it

he actually had a plan just like it

because the truth is that the US is the last modern country to get modern healthcare, and whoever implements it will get known as the best US president
hey look......a leftist troll sucking on Rmoney's dick.

Much like they do with McStain when he agrees with Obama on the NDAA and Waring against Syria over WMD.

Much like the permanent AWB this stupid rhino passed.....it was a **** idea when he did it too.

Romneycare is bankrupting Massachusetts

Imagine that.
 
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Apathy
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Old
315 - 10-01-2013, 19:44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperWhôre View Post
Not really...there are a boatload of new taxes and expenditures on the providers now, under ACA. They have had to completely retool their business model to accommodate the insane standards for what all must be covered. And, as wonderful and heartwarming as it sounds to guarantee that nobody who has a pre-existing condition can be told no, telling any for-profit business that they have no choice in the matter and must enter into a business relationship ( or tens of thousands of them actually) that are essentially guaranteed to lose them money, is only going to drive up their costs for everyone else.
I think the root of the problem with health insurance in America is how amazingly self centered the population is in general.


As the idiot above so clearly demonstrates.
 
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Goshin
VeteranXX
Old
316 - 10-01-2013, 19:52
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heres what my economist friend has to say about stuff

Quote:
This shutdown is the result of the biggest lie ever fed to the American public, that the Federal Government can run out of money. This cannot happen involuntarily (that is unless we choose, to say ,not raise the debt limit). The Federal Government's budget is NOT anything like a business or a person, so please please please can we stop with the false analogies.

Government "debt" is an asset to the public and the rest of the world. When the Federal Government appropriates spending it a) uses tax proceeds and then b) sells treasury bonds (debt) on the open market. What this means is that banks (primary dealers), foriegn nations (with USD from exports) and the public buy treasury bonds at auctions in exchange for USD. Then the Federal Government spends these newly aquired dollars from the auctions back into the economy.

So what this means is that we see the net financial assets (NFAs) of the private and foriegn sectors increase. And the cycle repeats and thus this is why (especially during a recession with lower tax revenue) we see the deficit and debt go up. But that means the rest of us see our asset increase.

Given these facts, this entire discussion about the national debt and debt ceiling is completely disingenuous and stupid. This is not something that is unknown, bond traders, central bankers, and most people in finance know this. Our lawmakers are just so completely ignorant that they have created this problem out of nothing and are now threatening the entire global economy. And if you think Government Debt is a burden, well I'll be happy to take that burden (bonds) off your hands.
 
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SniperWhôre
VeteranX
Old
317 - 10-01-2013, 19:54
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If it is self-centered to think that my income should be spent on my family, as opposed to further subsidizing a parasitic underclass who refuse to belly up to the bar of adulthood and take care of their own ****, then so be it.

You wanna spend your whole life being ass****ed by thhe poor, you enjoy that Mother Theresa.
 
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Putrid
VeteranX
Old
318 - 10-01-2013, 19:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperWhôre View Post
Not really...there are a boatload of new taxes and expenditures on the providers now, under ACA. They have had to completely retool their business model to accommodate the insane standards for what all must be covered. And, as wonderful and heartwarming as it sounds to guarantee that nobody who has a pre-existing condition can be told no, telling any for-profit business that they have no choice in the matter and must enter into a business relationship ( or tens of thousands of them actually) that are essentially guaranteed to lose them money, is only going to drive up their costs for everyone else.

the taxes are in terms of billions across the board, not per company, per year yet the government's budget for subsidies and operating costs, whatever are in trillions a year..


oh boooo-hoooo, a company that realizes 50 million or more in profit will have to pay some taxes.
 
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SniperWhôre
VeteranX
Old
319 - 10-01-2013, 19:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Putrid View Post
the taxes are in terms of billions across the board, not per company, per year yet the government's budget for subsidies and operating costs, whatever are in trillions a year..


oh boooo-hoooo, a company that realizes 50 million or more in profit will have to pay some taxes.
You're a far bigger idiot than I thought if you think for one moment these new taxes are coming out of their profit margin. This is why the rates are precipitously climbing, they are passing the new expenses on to the consumer.
 
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Captain Tele
Veteran³
Immigrant
Old
320 - 10-01-2013, 19:59
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That's the thing. They don't want to be ass****ed by the poor.......they want others to be ass****ed so they can sit at home and feel all altrusitic and uppity about it. We are living in a nation of slacktivists who feel benevolent by demanding others time, money, and effort be dedicated toward things that "they" believe in.......meanwhile most don't lift a finger and at best will change their facebook picture to some new meme of the week.

Be it Kony......to Gay Marriage.....they don't give a **** but sure have strong convictions about what others should do and pay for with their hard earned money (never theirs through free volition).

They talk about the common good. They brag about community and civility yet most wouldn't voluntarily give a minute of their time or a dime of their money toward any of this **** willingly. It honestly speaks volumes about them and who they really are. There might not be an "I" in team.....but if you look around hard enough you will often notice that nobody is lifting a finger for their causes but you.



And we wonder how a nation of this can happen.



The future is here and we gleefully subsidize this behavior. Yet seemed shocked when we get more of it and not less.



shocking really
 
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Last edited by Captain Tele; 10-01-2013 at 20:02..
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