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ICMeltdown
VeteranX
Old
501 - 05-13-2015, 23:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cancer View Post
not everyone lives the same life

i'm not making any points
i'm asking simple ****ing questions that nobody is responding to
my questions aren't rhetorical at all
i'm dead serious

does a living wage include having a car?
does a living wage include having a single apt vs sharing? is sharing living space an acceptable condition while receiving a living wage or do you have to be completely independent?
does it include cable tv or internet or a cell phone?
how much per week do you need for recreation to maintain sanity?
a lot of these things are negotiable, some of these things are considered basic (ie. internet) but i'm giving the option of disagreeing.

Here's just a few suggestions before you make this sort of post.

Ask yourself what do they have now that that couldn't have if they made more money? We don't provide most of your list for them now. Same as with your other response I took to task.

Because no one is arguing that they wouldn't end up with more discretionary income that I'm aware of. The focus has been on what it would effect cost wise.
 
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cogzinofa
VeteranXV
Old
502 - 05-13-2015, 23:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detox.enD View Post
Turning minimum wage jobs into careers for poor people isn't the answer.
people aren't advocating that. they're suggesting that the minimum wage be raised because these jobs have become careers. raising the minimum wage isn't going to suddenly make them career jobs because they already are.
 
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cancer
VeteranXX
Old
503 - 05-13-2015, 23:32
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it's only a career job if you have that mentality
why give incentive to support that mentality?
 
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ICMeltdown
VeteranX
Old
504 - 05-13-2015, 23:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cancer View Post
it's only a career job if you have that mentality
why give incentive to support that mentality?
Tell that to many of those seniors you see working due to big corp taking their pensions... and no one else will hire them at that age.
 
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cancer
VeteranXX
Old
505 - 05-13-2015, 23:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ICFire View Post
Ask yourself what do they have now that that couldn't have if they made more money?
ask myself what do they have now that they could not have if they had more money?

what?

Quote:
We don't provide most of your list for them now.
well that's why i made a list and i want to know what it is they want that they don't have and find to be a "necessity" although if you are clever and get roommates, you can have **** like internet, cell phone, and housing. cable is becoming obsolete and a car is something you can save up for.

**** jobs shouldn't be there for you to stagnate on and continue to do for the rest of your life
they should be a stepping stone to a better job with more skills. i still don't get why it is beneficial to give incentives to keep a **** job. people will inherently get lazy if you give them that opportunity (ie. unions). it seems to me that too many people are trying to settle and that infuriates me.
 
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ICMeltdown
VeteranX
Old
506 - 05-13-2015, 23:44
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So you made a list up of things we don't provide and some now we are supposed to think you're being relevant.

You're not.
 
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cancer
VeteranXX
Old
507 - 05-13-2015, 23:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ICFire View Post
Tell that to many of those seniors you see working due to big corp taking their pensions... and no one else will hire them at that age.
so if you're working at mcdonalds now your life is basically over? it's impossible to learn new skills or find other jobs after working at mcd's for a few years? life is a grind. grinding sucks but you either grind or sit around and ***** about how things don't go your way. do something about your situation if you are unhappy.
 
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Ztir
VeteranXX
Old
508 - 05-13-2015, 23:47
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living wage to me is being able to support a family of 4. roof over your head, food on the table, bus tickets/bicycles for transport and some kind of vacation once a year

school and healthcare and some sports/recrational physical activity should be paid for by the gov

thats what living wage means to me. if you dont have enough food, shelter or **** to do, that's not living
 
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ICMeltdown
VeteranX
Old
509 - 05-13-2015, 23:47
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Stupid post after stupid post, not you ztir.
 
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Last edited by ICMeltdown; 05-13-2015 at 23:49..
arsin
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Old
510 - 05-13-2015, 23:47
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Yea for sure, a stupid that is almost palpable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cancer View Post
to what minimum standards should people be living by?
on minimum wage, is it meant to support an individual or a family?
is having roommates an acceptable living condition?

who should qualify for a living wage? to what standards are they entitiled to?

if people are talking about minimum wage, they are implicitly referring to the lower class. i don't think people are going to argue that a strong middle class won't improve the current situation. i think that most people have a problem with just giving money to people without them doing more meaningful work like they deserve it.
I'm not a sociologist, I can't answer most of those questions.

People don't have a problem giving away money at all, after all there's millions of American's with more money than they'll ever need.

People don't mind giving money for people doing nothing after all they've voted in successive pro-AmeriCorp regimes that shipped jobs overseas. Can you say structural unemployment of 15-18%?

There's lots of work to be done, but where's the money to do it? In the hands of those who need it least. That's a got damn stupid way to run a society - rewarding those who least need it.
 
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cancer
VeteranXX
Old
511 - 05-13-2015, 23:53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ICFire View Post
So you made a list up of things we don't provide
so if the money doesn't go to rent, cell phone, internet, or food, where is it going to?
 
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cancer
VeteranXX
Old
512 - 05-13-2015, 23:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ztir View Post
living wage to me is being able to support a family of 4. roof over your head, food on the table, bus tickets/bicycles for transport and some kind of vacation once a year

school and healthcare and some sports/recrational physical activity should be paid for by the gov

thats what living wage means to me. if you dont have enough food, shelter or **** to do, that's not living
family of four? for someone that works a minimum wage job? ok how about no. that is completely unsustainable especially given the cost of healthcare alone.
 
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ICMeltdown
VeteranX
Old
513 - 05-13-2015, 23:57
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Fact is few people will stay in a job like burger flippers, it is the first step for the vast majority of people who are employed in fast food. This will be true if we get $15 minimum or more, maybe not because they can't live on what their earning but because they aren't earning what they want. Nor in a position they see themselves in in x number of years.

Increasing minimum wage will only provide avenues out for those wage slaves able to use the added income who get a spark to be more. But mostly we're creatures of habit and our bad habits just move with us.

One reason why I adovcate teaching money mgt early on.
 
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Ztir
VeteranXX
Old
514 - 05-13-2015, 23:58
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so poor people arent allowed to have families

right on

u asked what a living wage should be

i answered u

does the system in place support it? no. but that's what it should be
 
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Last edited by Ztir; 05-14-2015 at 00:02..
ICMeltdown
VeteranX
Old
515 - 05-13-2015, 23:59
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I don't think that most couple will find themselves in minimum wage paying jobs.

As it is now, it is cheaper, in many cases, for one of the parents to stay home and raise the kids and do the domestic things (shared when possible) than to work and pay a sitter/pre-school/after-school.

These are options people have now and will also have then and due to added income, whether minimum wage or just a good one, but the minimum wage folks may have more options since they should see a nice increase in their spendable income.
 
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Last edited by ICMeltdown; 05-14-2015 at 00:08..
CRAB PEOPLE
Banned
Old
516 - 05-14-2015, 00:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ICFire View Post
Fact is few people will stay in a job like burger flippers, it is the first step for the vast majority of people who are employed in fast food. This will be true if we get $15 minimum or more, maybe not because they can't live on what their earning but because they aren't earning what they want. Nor in a position they see themselves in in x number of years.

Increasing minimum wage will only provide avenues out for those wage slaves able to use the added income who get a spark to be more. But mostly we're creatures of habit and our bad habits just move with us.

One reason why I adovcate teaching money mgt early on.
teaching money management

u were living with your parents at 45

how much disability do u collect
 
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Ztir
VeteranXX
Old
517 - 05-14-2015, 00:02
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.
 
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ICMeltdown
VeteranX
Old
518 - 05-14-2015, 00:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRAB PEOPLE View Post
teaching money management

u were living with your parents at 45

how much disability do u collect
So I know of what I speak of you're saying.

I'd made over $100k a year. That was the bright side of Y2K. After that I had plenty of interviews but everyone stumbled over the pay for the area I'm in.

**** happens.
 
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pancake
Banned
Old
519 - 05-14-2015, 00:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ztir View Post
living wage to me is being able to support a family of 4. roof over your head, food on the table, bus tickets/bicycles for transport and some kind of vacation once a year

school and healthcare and some sports/recrational physical activity should be paid for by the gov

thats what living wage means to me. if you dont have enough food, shelter or **** to do, that's not living
lol this is commie talk because poor people should have their genitals mutilated and then made to work in koch brother facilitated concentration camps everyone knows that wtf do you think this is norway?????????
 
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ICMeltdown
VeteranX
Old
520 - 05-14-2015, 00:22
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oh and I'm self employed... no disabilities.

I have aches and pains but I can climb up and down a ladder all day long for $40 an hour minimum and do.

I am going to have to get to the optometrist though, I'm going to have to wear glasses full time. My eyes have gotten much worse in the last year.
 
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