Warlock buffs next patch.

Blotter said:
zentsetse can't be more wrong. we're good in 1v1, we suck balls in groups.
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then quit playing your lock cuz you obviously dont know how to play it... although many locks on this thread have shared good tips worth (re)reading.

Blotter said:
its not practical to dot 10 people in a row with this fucked up targetting system and lag. people will be dead by the time we come back to them, get real. anyone with half a brain dispels our dots anyway, gj wasting a shitload of time. pvp'n is about focused targets and front loading. fear and summoning are the only things that make us useful.

you keep claiming "all the experienced warlocks say..." SHUT THE FUCK UP, ive probably PvE'd, PvP'd, raided and dueled more than you. lord knows i have better gear.
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umm, ALL IVE DONE with my lock since mid-december is PvP. most of my buddies are lvl 60 warlocks who DO NOTHING BUT PvP. you can posture and CAPS LOCK all you want, but it doesnt change the facts.

my gear "sucks" cuz ALL I DO IS PVP (yet id point out my stam is pretty damn nice for a lock), and would rather keep +stam parts than grind for dreadmist and such (my "shitty" robe has the same +stam as dreadmist).

as for the SUBSTANCE of your post... (as opposed to the flame bait)

yes, relying on dots for damage in group pvp is indeed retarded (same goes for high end pve). however, i dont think anybody here actually argued for that (only people even talking about that are the trolls who have no experience playing warlocks)

as for targetting system, i have NO idea wtf you are talking about. i have never had any problem whatsoever targetting. i have mouse3 and mouse4 bound to MA and SA. i have absolutely no trouble either clicking (with V-bars showing) or tabbing through enemies (or clicking a friend and assisting). if "targetting" and lag are really a problem for you, no fuckin wonder you believe this stuff. could it be better for pvp? sure, but whining about it is stupid.

like i said, placing dots on casters to back them off and to perhaps get some shadowtrance pops is useful as a crowd control effort (you say dispelling is easy for them to do, and if they DO that... then i can proudly say i made them waste time and mana). the point is that you back their casters from the front line and then help pound and melee guys who got stuck out there.

anybody who talks about group pvp without grasping these dynamics doesnt obviously have much experience with it imo. you talk of group pvp like it's a zerg rush... and that just isnt effective.

warlocks are a complex support class that is very flexible. you can do CC, you can do damage... you can step in for crises. group pvp with good groups is NOT about zerg rushing and max dps spammage. that's how kiddies play it and they get crushed by good groups. if your group is on the hunt or holding a position, the idea is to work as a team to chip away at the opposition until you can overwhelm them.

if your only tactic is to just pound keys mindlessly lookin at your dps meter... then stick to being a warrior or a mage.

anyways, you are greatly mistaken about your own class' capabilities.

dont yell at us for knowing how to be effective in group pvp...

Blotter said:
i still have fun with the class, but WE ARENT THAT USEFUL WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO WHAT THE OTHER CLASSES OFFER IN GROUP PVP, GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD.

and we got more fucked with this new patch comin up, gg.....
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1. you can yell all you want but it doesnt make you right. you are flat out wrong and perhaps you need a new guild if that's what your buddies tell you, or to perhaps listen to people who know WTF they are talking about

any guild who doesnt grasp the importance and contribution of locks in group pvp isnt to be taken seriously. period.

2. warlocks didnt get more fucked in this new patch. i cant even fathom how you'd argue that being able to have a doomguard NOT get dispelled anymore is "fucked"
 
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sounds like blotter needs to make a fire mage :(

anyways, i still don't think warlocks are useless in groups. alright, they can't sheep or nuke like a mage, they dont have the 41 yard range of a mage or hunter, they don't have psychic scream or charge + intimidating shout or whatever other things are great in pvp. they aren't completely gimped - i mean, heck, even if your corruptions get dispelled, the enemy's dispeller is kept busy :p
 
Corruption - 290 mana
Dispell Magic - 75 mana

Curse of Agony - 215 mana
Remove Curse - 60 mana

It really doesn't help getting your dots dispelled
 
if you place dots on rear casters in a group fight and make them back down and dispell, it's VERY worth it... since the point isnt about merely doing damage or even making them waste mana... but doing it all in the dynamic of having them BACK AWAY.

ive seen this work so many times... (although i wouldnt suggest that a warlock blow all THEIR mana on stuff like this)

anything that can split the opposition up is a good thing... so, dont get hung up on the details, folks. look at the big picture.
 
if your super great secret sword of storms owning the server tactic is to dot people, not to kill them, but just to make them "back off"....

why not use priests to dot?

Shadow Word: Pain (INSTANT cast)
A word of darkness that causes 852 Shadow damage over 18 sec.
Improved Shadow Word:pain talent ups this to 993 damage over 21 seconds.
Shadoweaving talent increases this by 3% to 1023 damage over 21 seconds.
Shadowform talent ups this to 1176 damage over 21 seconds.
Add in a Vampiric embrace and this spell also heals your entire party for 235 damage per person.

Corruption (2.5 second cast)
Corrupts the target, causing 666 Shadow damage over 27 sec.
With shadow mastery this becomes 733 damage over 27 seconds.
With improved corruption you can make it a .5 second cast...

... but big deal! Shadow Word:pain is already instant, no talents neccesary

SWP kicks corruption's ass.

Priests also have mind blast, the best nuke in the game, as well as heals, shield, mind flay, mind control...

And then they put on their dreadmist robe and own even more!

it's official, warlocks suck and they don't deserve dreadmist. give it to the shadowpriests plz

btw hobbs i am level 47 now suck it

oh and zentse, no one makes a warrior to do damage rofl. yes mages do damage... warriors..? you noob :>
 
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TseTse, I'll just have a quick word of advice, since I doubt I can add anything to the "Shadow Priest can do everything a warlock does, only better" debate:

Don't use your "I PvP all the time, thus my gear sucks" excuse, because you're really selling yourself short if you do. I've PvP'Ed a lot against guys in near-end-game gear (since technically, end-game would be a full set from MC), and all the fights have been tight and harsh. The fights usually happen near Kargath, or in BRM itself, so you know you're facing people that raid a lot.

I'm always surprised though, when I get hit by some 60 in Gadgetzan from an unknown guild, with weird gear I don't recognize. Initial dot, +3% SD, Fear, Heal, Initial Flay, +6% SD, Shield, Mind Blast, +9% SD, Flay. They're dead. It's almost comical how easy it is.

Gear is everything in this game. Skill will take you far, but getting the basics down, and having superior gear will help you win a lot more battles than being extremely skilled and being stuck with solo quest greens.

Venomshroud just won't cut it. Get better shit.
 
ZenTseTse said:
if you place dots on rear casters in a group fight and make them back down and dispell, it's VERY worth it... since the point isnt about merely doing damage or even making them waste mana... but doing it all in the dynamic of having them BACK AWAY.

ive seen this work so many times... (although i wouldnt suggest that a warlock blow all THEIR mana on stuff like this)

anything that can split the opposition up is a good thing... so, dont get hung up on the details, folks. look at the big picture.
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This begs the question: What kind of pvp are you engaging in? Are you just sitting around hillsbrad all day fighting various sizes of unorganized zergs? Or are you actually battling other decent organized guilds that are meaning to pvp?

I don't think your tactic will work against an organized opponent. If they want to streamroll you, no dot is going to hold them back. I'd like to see what you can do against 20 undead mages and priests running through you on mounts then IAEing. (even though this is unrealistic for you since you play horde)

Also, a good group is not going to be split up by merely a dot or two. They'd keep their casters in the back, out of range of your warlock anyway, that is until the rest of your group dies leaving you to flee.
 
Forensic said:
haha, just saw this

my warrior has 354 stam unbuffed

so obviously

me > you (and all the gimped warriors you play with)
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hi my name is forensic and i haven't figured out that each class receives different stats when they level up because i'm a fucking moron
 
Voidsinger said:
TseTse, I'll just have a quick word of advice, since I doubt I can add anything to the "Shadow Priest can do everything a warlock does, only better" debate:

Don't use your "I PvP all the time, thus my gear sucks" excuse, because you're really selling yourself short if you do. I've PvP'Ed a lot against guys in near-end-game gear (since technically, end-game would be a full set from MC), and all the fights have been tight and harsh. The fights usually happen near Kargath, or in BRM itself, so you know you're facing people that raid a lot.

I'm always surprised though, when I get hit by some 60 in Gadgetzan from an unknown guild, with weird gear I don't recognize. Initial dot, +3% SD, Fear, Heal, Initial Flay, +6% SD, Shield, Mind Blast, +9% SD, Flay. They're dead. It's almost comical how easy it is.

Gear is everything in this game. Skill will take you far, but getting the basics down, and having superior gear will help you win a lot more battles than being extremely skilled and being stuck with solo quest greens.

Venomshroud just won't cut it. Get better shit.
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i hear ya...

but venomshroud chest has same +20 stam as dreadmist. all my gear is +stam and im now at 300 stam. all that said, ive been doign pve runs again for gear... cuz with BGs looming, i want all my options and can still get in the pvp on the side :D

you stories of BRD and gadgeztan made me laugh cuz that's been some of the best fighting ive seen.

one of the fiercest battles ive had was at the Spire entrance when we rolled up on a raid party by the top alliance pvp guild on malganis.

Hobbiticus said:
This begs the question: What kind of pvp are you engaging in? Are you just sitting around hillsbrad all day fighting various sizes of unorganized zergs? Or are you actually battling other decent organized guilds that are meaning to pvp?

I don't think your tactic will work against an organized opponent. If they want to streamroll you, no dot is going to hold them back. I'd like to see what you can do against 20 undead mages and priests running through you on mounts then IAEing. (even though this is unrealistic for you since you play horde)

Also, a good group is not going to be split up by merely a dot or two. They'd keep their casters in the back, out of range of your warlock anyway, that is until the rest of your group dies leaving you to flee.
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a good group is made of individuals and adapting to the situation. surely a dot or two wont impact a smart caster, but in the fray it CAN be of assistance.

any good player will realize that they are dead if they get caught in the fray, wounded and outnumbered. dots can be an important factor in that sway, but again... i never waste a ton of mana on this kind of thing.

anyways, folks get too caught up on the details without realizing these are all just little pieces of the bigger picture. i wouldnt advocate SOLELY for blind use of any of the tactics mentioned on this thread. they are circumstantial and must be used within the context of a fight.


i was in a nasty raid attempt on ironforge tonight. it was a pick-up 40-man raid group that initially was just stopping a handful of guys outside orgrimmar... and then went to leveling southshore... and then decided to take a stab at the IF gates.

needless to say, by the time we rolled up to the ramp at IF the 2 top PvP guilds for alliance were camped out (CoL and Grief). we got flanked by a ton of lvl 60 rogues while a bunch of the idiots on our team just tried to zerg rush. it was god aweful.

i did what i could by flanking with some other players and trying to clear the rogues out, but in THAT context... fuck... there was nothing that could be done besides fear and pray lol

sure, we killed a bunch of them but once they picked up on what i and 3-4 others were doing on the flank, they just leveled the entire raid party. but it was fun...

most of the raiders were very inexperienced and i think they actually thought we could walk right into IF and rock it. :D
 
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Forensic said:
haha, just saw this

my warrior has 354 stam unbuffed

so obviously

me > you (and all the gimped warriors you play with)
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hi my name is forensic and i haven't figured out that each class receives different stats when they level up because i'm a fucking moron
 
Forensic said:
if your super great secret sword of storms owning the server tactic is to dot people, not to kill them, but just to make them "back off"....

why not use priests to dot?

Shadow Word: Pain (INSTANT cast)
A word of darkness that causes 852 Shadow damage over 18 sec.
Improved Shadow Word:pain talent ups this to 993 damage over 21 seconds.
Shadoweaving talent increases this by 3% to 1023 damage over 21 seconds.
Shadowform talent ups this to 1176 damage over 21 seconds.
Add in a Vampiric embrace and this spell also heals your entire party for 235 damage per person.

Corruption (2.5 second cast)
Corrupts the target, causing 666 Shadow damage over 27 sec.
With shadow mastery this becomes 733 damage over 27 seconds.
With improved corruption you can make it a .5 second cast...

... but big deal! Shadow Word:pain is already instant, no talents neccesary

SWP kicks corruption's ass.

Priests also have mind blast, the best nuke in the game, as well as heals, shield, mind flay, mind control...

And then they put on their dreadmist robe and own even more!

it's official, warlocks suck and they don't deserve dreadmist. give it to the shadowpriests plz

btw hobbs i am level 47 now suck it

oh and zentse, no one makes a warrior to do damage rofl. yes mages do damage... warriors..? you noob :>
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hi my name is forensic and not only did i ignore the warlock's best instant cast dot, but i also don't know that 90% of warlocks get improved corruption because i'm a fucking moron
 
Forensic said:
oh and zentse, no one makes a warrior to do damage rofl. yes mages do damage... warriors..? you noob :>
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you are really beyond desperate, now, and entering the realm of a crying baby.

i believe my point was that you see pvp as a mindless pounding on the keys where you stare at the dps meter. i think i can grasp the role of warriors very well, and you'd make a perfectly good one. i dont think mage is right for you, now that i think about it. i dont think you've suited for it (besides, you'd prolly be in groups with warlocks and have to thank them for making you more effective).

so, all your silly math would help you as a warrior!

RAWR... go get em!
 
So, has the question been answered as to how warlocks can stack better than mages, priests or hunters (which is the real issue here in order to have a reason to have more than 1 warlock in a group), or what kind of situations warlocks accel at over other classes? I'm interested to see if you warlocks can answer that, because I havn't seen a lot of explaination on the subject, but rather lots of subject changing and useless rambling.

Basically, what would make 5 warlocks better than 5 mages, or 5 priests, or 5 hunters given 35 other balanced members of a raid party? How about in the specific situations of what battlegrounds will likely consist of, which are defending/capturing fortified objectives?

Also a quick question - if warlock pets are considered demons, can warlocks of the opposing factions enslave your infernal or doomguard or what have you?
 
Pagy you are really dumb. Tse said he has 295 stam - more stam than his groupmates. Aka the warriors he plays with are gimps.

Also, I even addressed improved corruption in my post. It's still slow compared to swp.

Also, dots are nice in specific cases, but priests make better dotters and actually can do other things, so use priests when you want to dot. How does it feel when a warlock's main ability sucks compared to a healing class?

Curse of Agony is also shitty because it's so slow. It does less damage than SWP over a longer period of time.

I'm not sure what the argument is since Pagy and ZenTseTse have never actually argued with the subject..

Actually I guess his latest argument is that despite the factual realities of the game - how SWP is higher dps than both warlocks dots - warlocks are still better because you can't use math to judge something like this. Math is for warriors, it doesn't apply to warlocks or mages. Obviously you can't know if a warlock is good unless you play a level 60 warlock like Blotter.

When it comes down to it we have Blotter, legendary Tribes player from Team Vanguard :)p) saying his warlock is less useful and doesnt stack in group pvp compared to a mage, and ZenTseTse who is notable for making Vehicle CTF in UT2k4, a terrible DaveG/Tribes2 Base imitation, saying Blotter is wrong without providing any kind of basis for this argument and pretending that he is an uber pvper by playing with the Goon Squad zerg rush and having terrible gear.

Everyone i've talked to has said the Mal'Ganis alliance is the worst group of gamers you could find, and the horde zerg rush gets bigger everyday. I'd rather take the advice of people who play on Archimonde. And "believe" in math.

;o
 
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Right so a sw:p has a dmg/mana of 1.81 and a dps of 47.33

Agony + corruption has a dmg/mana of 3.37 and a dps of 56.7

ignoring immolate i might add

i'm totally shocked that forensic is so stupid that he cant even do simple math

oh wait no i'm not surprised at all
 
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