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Evil Engineer
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61 - 03-06-2005, 04:35
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soul link and hellfire, need I say more?
 
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zodie
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62 - 03-06-2005, 07:16
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any time i see a warlock in a group pvp he's useless or dead. i am much MUCH less afraid of them compared to mages or priests pvp (being a rogue)

maybe i just havent seen any good ones
 
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FalseMyrmidon
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63 - 03-06-2005, 12:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zodie
any time i see a warlock in a group pvp he's useless or dead. i am much MUCH less afraid of them compared to mages or priests pvp (being a rogue)

maybe i just havent seen any good ones
Probaly just haven't seen any good ones. It's a hard class to play. A lot of people get scared off by the soul shard problems and other problems and a lot of people are just idiots. Warlocks will get better if they ever actually fix the broken tab thing. That will make it so that Warlocks can cycle through enemies and dot them all very quickly. Warlocks can also potentially take about 2 people out of the fight for an extended period of time by seducing one with Sucubus and fearing the other then swapping who is getting seduced/feared once they get resistant.
 
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ZenTseTse
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64 - 03-06-2005, 16:16
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actually... also... in group pvp the one class that is prolly least concerned with a warlock is a rogue, especially if the rogue plays smart but doesnt try to be superman on the front lines (or in the enemy rear).

however, id dare agree strongly with false in saying you just havent met a good warlock. because as a rogue, killing the locks should be a priority for you.

when my lock is kickin butt in group pvp, it's usually a rogue that can best counter me as i quietly swing to the flanks and counter-punch as folks get sucked into my group. if a good rogue times it right, they can turn my tactic around and pull me away from my group's attention at the right moment.

their ability to surprise/stun is the most effective against a lock. a warlock can utilize fear and a group-fear ability (which is deadly when you do a suicide-dash into middle of the enemy). the way to catch a warlock is to surprise them and silence/stun them up front. CASTERS in group pvp oughta completely avoid warlocks unless they have serious backup. however, smart rogues should patiently target them and chop them down in the heat of the action when the opportunity is there (use a caster as bait if you must).

when warlocks are now bringing Doomguards and Infernals with them to the party with NO concern about priest dispelling them... the **** will be ON
 
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Last edited by ZenTseTse; 03-06-2005 at 16:21..
zodie
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65 - 03-06-2005, 22:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenTseTse
actually... also... in group pvp the one class that is prolly least concerned with a warlock is a rogue, especially if the rogue plays smart but doesnt try to be superman on the front lines (or in the enemy rear).

however, id dare agree strongly with false in saying you just havent met a good warlock. because as a rogue, killing the locks should be a priority for you.
umm... what? O_O
 
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FalseMyrmidon
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66 - 03-06-2005, 22:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zodie
umm... what? O_O
Probaly
in group pvp the one class that is prolly least concerned with as a warlock is a rogue
hard to tell though.
 
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sekdar
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67 - 03-07-2005, 02:48
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a warlock in a 10v10 drops level 1 instacast corruption on everybody and waits for nightfall to proc ten billion times, spamming instacast shadowbolts every 1.5 seconds with COS, dealing anywhere from 500-2500 damage depending on rolls.

no burst damage whatsoever.
 
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ZenTseTse
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68 - 03-07-2005, 02:57
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hit 1500 dps tonight...

Quote:
Originally Posted by zodie
umm... what? O_O
i think what i said is pretty clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by sekdar
a warlock in a 10v10 drops level 1 instacast corruption on everybody and waits for nightfall to proc ten billion times, spamming instacast shadowbolts every 1.5 seconds with COS, dealing anywhere from 500-2500 damage depending on rolls.

no burst damage whatsoever.
yep..

placing a lot of dots (cos/corrupt) in one of those 10v10 types of situations from the flank will often force the enemy casters to fall back, allowing peeps to get picked off. if the enemy is really dumb, they will leave the lock alone allowing for a lot of mana regen...

this is exactly why a lot of the comments about warlocks show real lack of experience in pvp, imo.
 
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Last edited by ZenTseTse; 03-07-2005 at 03:01..
Jambalaya Pretzelstein
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69 - 03-07-2005, 03:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sekdar
a warlock in a 10v10 drops level 1 instacast corruption on everybody and waits for nightfall to proc ten billion times, spamming instacast shadowbolts every 1.5 seconds with COS, dealing anywhere from 500-2500 damage depending on rolls.

no burst damage whatsoever.
"instacast" still has a 1second cooldown

so a minimum of 10 seconds of setup to do decent burst damage that doesnt compare to mage burst damage, hunter burst damage, or even shadowpriest burst damage. And shadowpriests can heal.

wasting 10 seconds casting level 1 dots to get a chance at a 3% nightfall proc is really scraping the bottom of the barrel.. chances are in 10 seconds your entire team would be dead because their DPS or healing was inadequate because they chose you for the group instead of a shadowpriest or hunter

warlocks are about dotting and cursing.. burst damage is found in much better forms elsewhere. CoS is the best ability, because of the increase in damage it gives to OTHER classes on their GOOD DDs. But this means you probably don't want more than 1 warlock.

It's not that I think they're useless, it's that I think they are one of the weakest group pvp characters and don't stack at all and the majority of their skills are useless for group PvP. You said it yourself.. in group pvp you imitate a mage by spamming shadowbolt. Why not just roll a mage? They do more damage and can AoE. (Hellfire is crap compared to IAE)
 
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ZenTseTse
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70 - 03-07-2005, 03:49
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you just dont get it... and imo clearly dont have a lot of experience in hard core group pvp (which is about all i do with my lvl 60 char)

forensic, have you played a lvl 60 warlock?

cuz you tell us things we already know, yet completely miss the point just for the sake of some argument you insist on (even when all evidence and knowledgeable people disagree with you - and even though it is a terrifically stupid argument to engage in).

and for the record, CoS isnt the only ability warlocks have that help OTHER classes. but im sure you knew that, too...

anyways, sreiously, this is a silly argument. if you havent played a lvl 60 warlock i'd suggest you listen to our collective advice rather than continuing to make silly claims.
 
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Last edited by ZenTseTse; 03-07-2005 at 03:58..
zodie
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71 - 03-07-2005, 04:52
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whatever

nothing against warlocks (my horde alt is an undead warlock and it rules) but i've never seen one very effective in group pvp. perhaps i will in the near future. i haven't been high level long enough to face many pvp situations.
 
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Pagy
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72 - 03-07-2005, 04:57
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hey tsetse

seeing as tho i just got it, i've been wondering
if you throw a siphon life on multiple players, will you get healed per each target or will it jew you into only getting once every 3 seconds?

forensic is either a whiney ***** warlock that sucks, or has a whiney botch warlock friend that fills his head with bs.
 
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Pagy
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73 - 03-07-2005, 04:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zodie
whatever

nothing against warlocks (my horde alt is an undead warlock and it rules) but i've never seen one very effective in group pvp. perhaps i will in the near future. i haven't been high level long enough to face many pvp situations.
like it's been said, if the warlock is left unchecked in a large scale fight, they get many many kills.

i was dropping CoS+sb bombs on a raid party at tm the other night and i was dropping lvl 60's like flies.
 
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ZenTseTse
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74 - 03-07-2005, 05:04
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pagy
hey tsetse

seeing as tho i just got it, i've been wondering
if you throw a siphon life on multiple players, will you get healed per each target or will it jew you into only getting once every 3 seconds?

forensic is either a whiney ***** warlock that sucks, or has a whiney botch warlock friend that fills his head with bs.
lol

as for siphon life, im pretty sure it drains from all mobs/players at same time. i use that tactic a lot in both pvp and pve (i admit i havent carefully checked the logs tho).

i also have a timer macro for my Curse of Doom. if the mob isnt TOO low lvl, ill place Siphon on it while it pecks away at me for that minute.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zodie
i've never seen one very effective in group pvp. perhaps i will in the near future. i haven't been high level long enough to face many pvp situations.
then dont make claims about things you have no experience with...

trust us, warlocks are VERY useful in PvP.

the most feared and hated horde guild on malganis is Sword of Storms and warlocks have been essential for their pvp tactics...

with next patch fixes (i.e. enslave cannot be dispelled), im willing to wager that folks will suddenly start crying that warlocks are overpowered (again) cuz there are gonna be a LOT of doomguards in group pvp from that moment onwards...
 
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Last edited by ZenTseTse; 03-07-2005 at 05:11..
Jambalaya Pretzelstein
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75 - 03-07-2005, 05:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pagy
hey tsetse

seeing as tho i just got it, i've been wondering
if you throw a siphon life on multiple players, will you get healed per each target or will it jew you into only getting once every 3 seconds?

forensic is either a whiney ***** warlock that sucks, or has a whiney botch warlock friend that fills his head with bs.
^_^

i play a warrior and a mage

But seriously, there are a lot of tw warlocks which is why i posted here, hopefully to get some real info. sadly zentsetse talks the most and says the least.

I don't really care that much about the topic but I would like to explore how warlocks are useful in large scale pvp (20v20+). And dotting a bunch of targets really isn't that useful. The DD is useful but done better by other classes. CoS is great. Bloodpact is pretty good. Summon and stones are useful. 1 warlock can handle these jobs for an entire raid. Bloodpact is more of a perk than a reason to take a warlock however, since it's limited to groupmates. It's a nice side effect but you'd be an idiot to put a warlock in every group.

My guild is planning on using 1 warlock per group of 25 for the aforementioned reasons. Mainly for CoS.. if warlocks didnt have CoS there really would be no reason to even use 1.

I'm seriously not trying to depress you guys or anything. Warlocks are supposed to be "buffed" in the next patch anyway.

Also I have a lot of PvP experience. On a message board you should attack the argument instead of the person (who you know nothing about) if you actually want to learn anything.


edit: Now that i've read the thread about Dreadmist I can safely dismiss everything you say as being retarded. Holy ****. Dreadmist robe = best cloth robe for all cloth classes, and all cloth classes get an equal roll on it. This is not a debateable point.. this is wow fact.
 
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Last edited by Jambalaya Pretzelstein; 03-07-2005 at 05:49..
Archimedes
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76 - 03-07-2005, 05:41
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Never ever ever go anywhere or do anything without a Warlock or three.
 
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ZenTseTse
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77 - 03-07-2005, 07:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forensic
zentsetse talks the most and says the least.

I don't really care that much about the topic but I would like to explore how warlocks are useful in large scale pvp (20v20+).

blah blah blah

On a message board you should attack the argument instead of the person (who you know nothing about) if you actually want to learn anything.


i suggest you take your own self-righteous medicine and go back and re-read this time without the attitude.

you might learn something, cuz you lecture about how warlocks arent useful in pvp. you TOTALLY miss all the points and tactical advice we share, then you turn around and ask for advice cuz your guild wants warlocks.

and now you want a flame war? dude, what is your point?

you talked a lot of smack for pages now without knowing a DAMN thing about what you are talking about and get offended when folks try to patiently explain to you that you are making insanely wild claims.

perhaps YOU are the one who should look up the definition of ad hominem, since as you say... you dont even care about the topic (and you OBVIOUSLY dont care to really learn anything about warlocks as shown on the pages of this thread)


let's review all your "contributions" to this thread thus far. you have been talking smack for 4 pages now without knowing a damn thing and now you try to turn it around like you weren't, asking for advice???

ok...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Forensic
warlocks are turning out to be nearly useless in group pvp :\

how sad for all the tw locks
a ploy for flame war and based on no info/understanding or experience...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forensic
pvp is usually about burst damage..

in group pvp the succubus/fear combo thing is basically irrelevant
ignorance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forensic
stop dueling in town and get some real pvp
silly posturing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forensic
Warlocks can't really kill anything, they have cheesy out-of-combat utility such as soulstones and summon. The pets are a nonfactor in large scale pvp.

But really, warlocks are a wasted slot in large scale group pvp.
ignorance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forensic
Warlocks don't really have an important role they just imitate mages
shows total misunderstanding of warlocks, not to mention a ploy for a flame war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forensic
pvp is about burst damage
group pvp is about killing the enemy and holding onto a position. that... isnt about burst damage and anybody who has fought in a lot of pvp raids KNOWS that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forensic
most of the arguments you guys are presenting are based on 1v1 pvp. I never said warlocks were useless in 1v1 pvp.
this only showed how out of touch you are with what we were all saying, since WE were all talking about group pvp and you didnt even understand that (and you repeated it several times)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forensic
I think they are one of the weakest group pvp characters and don't stack at all and the majority of their skills are useless for group PvP. You said it yourself.. in group pvp you imitate a mage by spamming shadowbolt.
who said that? i sure as hell didnt and i think anybody who makes that claim about warlocks essentially hasnt a clue about how warlocks work.



4 pages in... you admit that MAYBE there is some use for warlocks and you'd like to LEARN something.
 
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Last edited by ZenTseTse; 03-07-2005 at 08:11..
sekdar
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78 - 03-07-2005, 10:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forensic
Why not just roll a mage? They do more damage and can AoE. (Hellfire is crap compared to IAE)

i still take it you haven't seen a good warlock with raid level gear out-nuke a mage yet, have you (single target)? with the spellstone changes it's going to become even easier.

i don't dispute the fact that IAE is godly, though. hellfire is garbage in pvp.
 
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Last edited by sekdar; 03-07-2005 at 10:26..
Blotter
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79 - 03-07-2005, 14:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forensic
edit: Now that i've read the thread about Dreadmist I can safely dismiss everything you say as being retarded. Holy ****. Dreadmist robe = best cloth robe for all cloth classes, and all cloth classes get an equal roll on it. This is not a debateable point.. this is wow fact.
i agree with you on most of your points, especially this one lol.

warlock fanboi's...

i enjoy the playing the class and feeling useful *at times*, but i have no illusions with our role, we have a very minor place and you don't need more than probably 2 in a 40 man PvE raid, if it came down to it.

and I'd say 1 or 2 in a PvP raid, if that *shrug*
we just aren't that important, get over it warlocks.
 
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Jambalaya Pretzelstein
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80 - 03-07-2005, 15:37
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i'm not even reading that zentse garbage

seriously you're the biggest board whore i've ever seen, and you never actually say anything

go back to making dave G mods for ut2k4 :p

skedar.. if warlocks can outdamage a fire mage on single targets I would be very, very suprised. And if it takes >10 seconds of setup to get nightfall procs then that is a pretty significant limitation. You have to take those 10 seconds of no damage into consideration when calculating the DPS. Fire mages with proper specs can literally do 3000 damage in 3 seconds.. right at the beginning of the fight. If you want to point out the numbers where warlocks beat this that would be nice
 
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Last edited by Jambalaya Pretzelstein; 03-07-2005 at 15:46..
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