Originally Posted by ZenTseTse

agreed, but im not gonna complain tho.

actually, i even realized that ShardBags could potentially be very cool if they can hold like 20+ shards. at lvl 60, i tend to have a 16-slot bag always filed. if a special bag exists, perhaps it means i dont take up space in MORE than one bag.

No idea where you've been but Blizzard has stated many times the soul shard's lack of stackability is an intentional balancing action. If they stacks to 20 then all you locks could carry around dozens of them at a time and throw around your most powerful spells like there's no tomorrow.

I never played a Warlock, but I am aware some of the best spells require soul shards and Blizzard has stated that's who it's intended to work.

Originally Posted by Forensic

In large scale pvp you don't use poly, it's irrelevant. No mage will poly in 20v20 fight they will be dishing damage as quickly as they possibly can.

crowd control is huge, you poly-bot

4ensic has yet to see a 2000+ damage shadowbolt

Originally Posted by Forensic

Who was it that called Cone of Cold a snare..? Cone of cold is only the highest dps AoE spell in the game I guess the only use is the chill effect?

dude you sound like a forthing idiot

it's a snare
and aoe snare
like frost shock is a snare

being a snare doesn't make it "only used for slowing effect"
anyhow the range of coc alone doesn't make the spell as godly as you make it out to be.

Furthermore tsetse posted pics of him doing single target damage, likely sustained, not just phat numbers you see when you aoe.

My regular dps with my succubus is ~140
If im CoS+sb spamming bosses or what have you, i cane get over 250 as well, and im not even 60.

saying warlocks cant really kill anything, esp when you consider curses and spam and our ltd aoe make your to look out to be ****ing clownshoes.

im gonna just ignore forensic. i dont like hyperbole... and ploys for silly debates (ignoring the reality of locks casually doing 300dps and pulling taunt 3 times in a strath fight is hilarious but so typical for this thread).

Originally Posted by Feannag

No idea where you've been but Blizzard has stated many times the soul shard's lack of stackability is an intentional balancing action. If they stacks to 20 then all you locks could carry around dozens of them at a time and throw around your most powerful spells like there's no tomorrow.

ive been reading the forums and reading that blizzard has already announced intention to do precisely what i was saying... *rolls eyes* and it has nothing to do with statcking. before you posture and get inflamatory, get your facts.

Originally Posted by Feannag

I never played a Warlock, but I am aware some of the best spells require soul shards and Blizzard has stated that's who it's intended to work.

you have never played a warlock yet lecture me on shard management and the news around warlocks (and didnt even understand, thus, what i was talking about).



perhaps the non-warlocks on this thread need to chill or just stick to what they know.

While my previous sticky post indicated that the Priest will no longer be able to dispel Enslave Demon as it pertains to the Warlock's hold over the Infernal and DoomGuard, players will be pleased to hear that we're going a step further in order to improve this spell. Enslave Demon will no longer be subject to any form of dispel, including the Shaman's Purge ability, and not just as it pertains to the Infernal or DoomGuard, but in any situation and when cast on any demon. Also, we're fully aware of your concerns relating to the affects of the Infernal and DoomGuard being "tappable", and the developers wished for me to convey that this functionality is currently being investigated and plans for improvement are being explored.

doomguards in group pvp

let's hear more of the silly arguments about how warlocks suck...

Originally Posted by Feannag

No idea where you've been but Blizzard has stated many times the soul shard's lack of stackability is an intentional balancing action. If they stacks to 20 then all you locks could carry around dozens of them at a time and throw around your most powerful spells like there's no tomorrow.

I never played a Warlock, but I am aware some of the best spells require soul shards and Blizzard has stated that's who it's intended to work.

Warlock spell that requires talent points to get and uses a soulshard as a reagant.
Shadowburn (Rank 6)
365 Mana 20 yd range
Instant cast 15 sec cooldown
Reagents: Soul Shard
Instantly blasts the target with 450 to 502 Shadow damage. Requires 1 Soul Shard. If the target dies from Shadowburn, and yields experience, the caster gains a Soul Shard.

Mage spell that they buy and cast.
Fire Blast (Rank 7)
340 Mana 20 yd range
Instant cast 8 sec cooldown
Blasts the enemy for 431 to 509 Fire damage.

Boy, that Shadowburn sure is uber powerful. I'm so glad that it requires a reagant to cast or else Warlocks would be overpowered.

yes, fire blast is a total insult to warlocks...

it seems like something they made in alpha and just never noticed that it needed updating

and shadowburn is useful cuz you get a shard back (for <60 leveling), but certainly aint a pvp tool at ALL.

Originally Posted by ZenTseTse

yes, fire blast is a total insult to warlocks...

it seems like something they made in alpha and just never noticed that it needed updating

and shadowburn is useful cuz you get a shard back (for <60 leveling), but certainly aint a pvp tool at ALL.

Nah, it's not just Fireblast. I'm sure there are other classes that have abilities that are equally as good as Shadowburn if not better and without the reagant cost. It's just that Shadowburn sucks.

Here's a list of all the ELITE warlock skills that require soulshards as reagants.

Name				Rank	Category	Level	Mana	Cast	Recast	Range		Description
"Create Firestone(Major)"	N/A	Demonology	56	1100	3	0	Self Only	"Creates a Major Firestone which can be equipped in the off hand. When equipped, enchants the main hand weapon with fire, granting each attack a chance to deal 80 to 120 additional Fire damage. Conjured items disappear if logged out for more than 15 minutes."
"Create Healthstone(Major)"	N/A	Demonology	58	1120	3	0	Self Only	Creates a Major Healthstone that can be used to instantly restore 1200 health. Conjured items disappear if logged out for more than 15 minutes.
"Create Soulstone(Major)"	N/A	Demonology	60	0	3	0	Self Only	"Creates a Major Soulstone. The Soulstone can be used to store one target's soul. If the target dies while his soul is stored, he will be able to resurrect with -2200 health and $20761q1 mana. Conjured items disappear if logged out for more than 15 minutes."
"Create Spellstone(Major)"	N/A	Demonology	60	1000	5	0	Self Only	"Creates a Major Spellstone for the caster. When equipped and used, the Major Spellstone removes all magic effects from the caster and will absorb 900 magic damage for 60 seconds. Conjured items disappear if logged out for more than 15 minutes."
Enslave Demon			3	Demonology	58	700	3	0	30 yards	"Enslaves the target demon, up to level 62, forcing it to do your bidding. While enslaved, the demon's attack speed is slowed by -30% and its casting speed is slowed by -30%. Lasts up to 5 minutes. If you repeatedly enslave the same demon, it will become more difficult to control with each attempt."
Eye of Kilrogg			N/A	Demonology	22	100	5	0	Unlimited	"Summons an Eye of Kilrogg and binds your vision to it. The eye is stealthy and quick, but very fragile."
Inferno				N/A	Demonology	50	0	2	3600	30 yards	"Summons a meteor from the twisting nether, causing 200 Shadow damage and stunning all enemy targets in the area for 2 seconds. An Infernal rises from the crater, under the command of the caster. Once control is lost, the Infernal must be Enslaved to maintain control. Can only be used outdoors."
Ritual of Doom			N/A	Demonology	60	0	10	0	30 yards	"Begins a ritual that sacrifices a random participant to summon a doomguard. The doomguard must be immediately enslaved or it will attack the ritual participants. Requires the caster and 4 additional party members to complete the ritual. In order to participate, all players must right-click the portal and not move until the ritual is complete."
Ritual of Summoning		N/A	Demonology	20	300	5	0	30 yards	"Begins a ritual that summons the targeted group member. Requires the caster and 2 additional party members to complete the ritual. In order to participate, all players must right-click the portal and not move until the ritual is complete."
Shadowburn			6	Destruction	56	365	0	15	20 yards	"Instantly blasts the target with 450 to 502 Shadow damage. Requires 1 Soul Shard. If the target dies from Shadowburn, and yields experience, the caster gains a Soul Shard."
Soul Fire			2	Destruction	56	335	6	60	30 yards	"Burn the enemy's soul, causing 703 to 881 Fire damage."
Summon Felhunter		N/A	Demonology	30	0	10	0	Self Only	Summons a Felhunter under the command of the Warlock.
Summon Succubus			N/A	Demonology	20	0	10	0	Self Only	Summons a Succubus under the command of the Warlock.
Summon Voidwalker		N/A	Demonology	10	0	10	0	Self Only	Summons a Voidwalker under the command of the Warlock.

Different format

"Create Firestone(Major)"
Level 56
Mana 1100
Cast time 3
Cooldown 0
Range Self Only
"Creates a Major Firestone which can be equipped in the off hand. When equipped, enchants the main hand weapon with fire, granting each attack a chance to deal 80 to 120 additional Fire damage. Conjured items disappear if logged out for more than 15 minutes."

"Create Healthstone(Major)"
Level 58
Mana 1120
Cast time 3
Cooldown 0
Range Self Only
Creates a Major Healthstone that can be used to instantly restore 1200 health. Conjured items disappear if logged out for more than 15 minutes.

"Create Soulstone(Major)"
Level 60
Mana 0(because it scales with level?)
Cast time 3
Cooldown 0
Range Self Only
"Creates a Major Soulstone. The Soulstone can be used to store one target's soul. If the target dies while his soul is stored, he will be able to resurrect with -2200 health and $20761q1 mana. Conjured items disappear if logged out for more than 15 minutes."

"Create Spellstone(Major)"
Level 60
Mana 1000
Cast time 5
Cooldown 0
Range Self Only
"Creates a Major Spellstone for the caster. When equipped and used, the Major Spellstone removes all magic effects from the caster and will absorb 900 magic damage for 60 seconds. Conjured items disappear if logged out for more than 15 minutes."

Enslave Demon
Level 58
Mana 700
Cast time 3
Cooldown 0
Range 30 yards
"Enslaves the target demon, up to level 62, forcing it to do your bidding. While enslaved, the demon's attack speed is slowed by -30% and its casting speed is slowed by -30%. Lasts up to 5 minutes. If you repeatedly enslave the same demon, it will become more difficult to control with each attempt."

Eye of Kilrogg
Level 22
Mana 100
Cast time 5
Cooldown 0
Range Unlimited
"Summons an Eye of Kilrogg and binds your vision to it. The eye is stealthy and quick, but very fragile."

Inferno
Level 50
Mana 0(because it scales with level?)
Cast time 2
Cooldown 3600
Range 30 yards
"Summons a meteor from the twisting nether, causing 200 Shadow damage and stunning all enemy targets in the area for 2 seconds. An Infernal rises from the crater, under the command of the caster. Once control is lost, the Infernal must be Enslaved to maintain control. Can only be used outdoors."

Ritual of Doom
Level 60
Mana 0 10
Cast time 0
Range 30 yards
"Begins a ritual that sacrifices a random participant to summon a doomguard. The doomguard must be immediately enslaved or it will attack the ritual participants. Requires the caster and 4 additional party members to complete the ritual. In order to participate, all players must right-click the portal and not move until the ritual is complete."

Ritual of Summoning
Level 20
Mana 300
Cast time 5
Cooldown 0
Range 30 yards
"Begins a ritual that summons the targeted group member. Requires the caster and 2 additional party members to complete the ritual. In order to participate, all players must right-click the portal and not move until the ritual is complete."

Shadowburn
Level 56
Mana 365
Cast time 0
Cooldown 15
Range 20 yards
"Instantly blasts the target with 450 to 502 Shadow damage. Requires 1 Soul Shard. If the target dies from Shadowburn, and yields experience, the caster gains a Soul Shard."

Soul Fire
Level 56
Mana 335
Cast time 6
Cooldown 60
Range 30 yards
"Burn the enemy's soul, causing 703 to 881 Fire damage."

Summon Felhunter
Level 30
Mana 0(because it scales with level?)
Cast time 10
Cooldown 0
Range Self Only
Summons a Felhunter under the command of the Warlock.

Summon Succubus
Level 20
Mana 0(because it scales with level?)
Cast time 10
Cooldown 0
Range Self Only
Summons a Succubus under the command of the Warlock.

Summon Voidwalker
Level 10
Mana 0(because it scales with level?)
Cast time 10
Cooldown 0
Range Self Only
Summons a Voidwalker under the command of the Warlock.

Name				Rank	Category	Level	Mana	Cast	Recast	Range		Description
"Create Firestone(Major)"	N/A	Demonology	56	1100	3	0	Self Only	"Creates a Major Firestone which can be equipped in the off hand. When equipped, enchants the main hand weapon with fire, granting each attack a chance to deal 80 to 120 additional Fire damage. Conjured items disappear if logged out for more than 15 minutes."
"Create Healthstone(Major)"	N/A	Demonology	58	1120	3	0	Self Only	Creates a Major Healthstone that can be used to instantly restore 1200 health. Conjured items disappear if logged out for more than 15 minutes.
"Create Soulstone(Major)"	N/A	Demonology	60	0	3	0	Self Only	"Creates a Major Soulstone. The Soulstone can be used to store one target's soul. If the target dies while his soul is stored, he will be able to resurrect with -2200 health and $20761q1 mana. Conjured items disappear if logged out for more than 15 minutes."
"Create Spellstone(Major)"	N/A	Demonology	60	1000	5	0	Self Only	"Creates a Major Spellstone for the caster. When equipped and used, the Major Spellstone removes all magic effects from the caster and will absorb 900 magic damage for 60 seconds. Conjured items disappear if logged out for more than 15 minutes."
Enslave Demon			3	Demonology	58	700	3	0	30 yards	"Enslaves the target demon, up to level 62, forcing it to do your bidding. While enslaved, the demon's attack speed is slowed by -30% and its casting speed is slowed by -30%. Lasts up to 5 minutes. If you repeatedly enslave the same demon, it will become more difficult to control with each attempt."
Eye of Kilrogg			N/A	Demonology	22	100	5	0	Unlimited	"Summons an Eye of Kilrogg and binds your vision to it. The eye is stealthy and quick, but very fragile."
Inferno				N/A	Demonology	50	0	2	3600	30 yards	"Summons a meteor from the twisting nether, causing 200 Shadow damage and stunning all enemy targets in the area for 2 seconds. An Infernal rises from the crater, under the command of the caster. Once control is lost, the Infernal must be Enslaved to maintain control. Can only be used outdoors."
Ritual of Doom			N/A	Demonology	60	0	10	0	30 yards	"Begins a ritual that sacrifices a random participant to summon a doomguard. The doomguard must be immediately enslaved or it will attack the ritual participants. Requires the caster and 4 additional party members to complete the ritual. In order to participate, all players must right-click the portal and not move until the ritual is complete."
Ritual of Summoning		N/A	Demonology	20	300	5	0	30 yards	"Begins a ritual that summons the targeted group member. Requires the caster and 2 additional party members to complete the ritual. In order to participate, all players must right-click the portal and not move until the ritual is complete."
Shadowburn			6	Destruction	56	365	0	15	20 yards	"Instantly blasts the target with 450 to 502 Shadow damage. Requires 1 Soul Shard. If the target dies from Shadowburn, and yields experience, the caster gains a Soul Shard."
Soul Fire			2	Destruction	56	335	6	60	30 yards	"Burn the enemy's soul, causing 703 to 881 Fire damage."
Summon Felhunter		N/A	Demonology	30	0	10	0	Self Only	Summons a Felhunter under the command of the Warlock.
Summon Succubus			N/A	Demonology	20	0	10	0	Self Only	Summons a Succubus under the command of the Warlock.
Summon Voidwalker		N/A	Demonology	10	0	10	0	Self Only	Summons a Voidwalker under the command of the Warlock.

Different format.

shadowburn isn't meant to be spammed

we have 2 instant nukes, one is death coil, which is pretty much an emergency nuke, and shadowburn

shadowburn isn't meant to be spammed, especially considering we have fear.

if shadowburn didn't require a reagent, i would feel it would be overpowered considering our other abilities.

the only thing worse than mana dependancy is shard dependancy

sorry for the stupid rant it was really really late

everything is more or less correct anyway

sustained dps against one target is not what pvp is about... pvp is about burst damage

edit

Originally Posted by Raven

crowd control is huge, you poly-bot

calling a mage a poly bot is hilarious when no mage would ever, ever poly in large scale pvp

their other abilities are way too useful to waste time on short duration single target cc

skedar.. 2000 damage shadowbolt? nice. too bad hunters can do more without shard reliance, without mana reliance, from a longer range, and while wearing mail

Originally Posted by Forensic

pvp is about burst damage

if you believe this, then you havent been in a rumble with a skilled warlock.

really IS that simple. there is a lot more depth to pvp and this game than i think you either realize... or are willing to acknowledge (for the apparent sake of argument).

Originally Posted by Forensic

the only thing worse than mana dependancy is shard dependancy

sorry for the stupid rant it was really really late

everything is more or less correct anyway

sustained dps against one target is not what pvp is about... pvp is about burst damage

edit



calling a mage a poly bot is hilarious when no mage would ever, ever poly in large scale pvp

their other abilities are way too useful to waste time on short duration single target cc

skedar.. 2000 damage shadowbolt? nice. too bad hunters can do more without shard reliance, without mana reliance, from a longer range, and while wearing mail

So arcane explosion should be gimped? Also hunters having longer range? the range difference has always seemed arbitrary to me. Also why is group PvP so much more important right now than 1v1 PvP...there's no ****ing important to winning either right now.

Originally Posted by ZenTseTse

if you believe this, then you havent been in a rumble with a skilled warlock.

really IS that simple. there is a lot more depth to pvp and this game than i think you either realize... or are willing to acknowledge (for the apparent sake of argument).

He's referring to group PvP and not 1v1 however he is wrong. In PvP mages aoe spells are close ranged while warlocks have long range spells. Warlocks should sit behind the line and pick off the advancing ones with the nice range they have. If it's a cluster**** then the warlock needs to play smart, but warlocks should not lose in 1v1 PvP if they're prepared. Saying warlocks aren't useful is pretty silly, especially (as I already said) PvP right now is crap anyways.

shadowburn has a 15 second recast time. it is worst than fire blast. what the ****. there should be no shard cost.

i dont think forensic has ever seen a warlock dropping shadowbolt bombs on players with curse of shadow

damnit im only 53 and i can absolutely **** players if they dont pay attn to me...

oh whats that?/ you realized who's attacking you?

*feared*

it's beautiful

nm curse of elements and soul fire, that's another gem
nailed a paly for 1935 today, highest i've seen was a 2279

nothing is better than having a rogue drop on you, and letting your invisable succubus drop on them...

Originally Posted by ZenTseTse

if you believe this, then you havent been in a rumble with a skilled warlock.

really IS that simple. there is a lot more depth to pvp and this game than i think you either realize... or are willing to acknowledge (for the apparent sake of argument).

please note i'm talking about group pvp (10+ people) not 1v1

i don't care about 1v1

why... i guess i'm just a team player. the game would be boring if i didnt have a team to play with

most of the arguments you guys are presenting are based on 1v1 pvp. I never said warlocks were useless in 1v1 pvp. In group pvp I would take a maxmimum of 1 warlock however, a 2nd warlock would have a bigger impact playing another class. They are probably the least useful class in group pvp sadly... they are better than offensively specced paladins at least :P But holy paladins blow them away in utility

Originally Posted by Forensic

most of the arguments you guys are presenting are based on 1v1 pvp.

actually, exactly the opposite... but this conversation has gone nowhere... and im not gonna argue with people who dont understand lvl 60 pvp with locks (which is about all i do with mine... in groups)

id suggest you stop making assumptions...

Originally Posted by Nevearion

Warlocks should sit behind the line and pick off the advancing ones with the nice range they have. If it's a cluster**** then the warlock needs to play smart, but warlocks should not lose in 1v1 PvP if they're prepared. Saying warlocks aren't useful is pretty silly, especially (as I already said) PvP right now is crap anyways.

yep.

i stay back and play like a counter-punch boxer... toss on dots to sorta hold the group off and together, and i flank with my succubus and help pull out suckers for the death blows. lay in hard against the priests and such as needed, but generally just flank and keep the initiative in our favor with dots and fear/howl.

only goofs wplay group pvp like a direct melee zerg rush where short burts of damage are all that matters. that approach does NOT work against good players.

As for shadowburn I think it's fine, a little more damage would be nice since most of it is wasted on finishing off to get the shard, but the 1000 dmg crits with it are nice...just can't rely on them so they're almost useless except in a last ditch or if you don't mind losing the shard. But soul fire I think is crap, the cooldown is annoying for PvE and having to worry about shards makes it pretty inefficient. Not to mention shadowbolt beats it as far as dps goes. Even the crits with soul fire seem to be pretty week (but then I use shadowbolt soo much more). It seems useful in finishing off people in PvP but the whole shard balance thing in PvP is crap right now, but would be cool if you got shards from PvP so you could do soul fire/lvl1 drain soul. As for the succubus I think it's best left invisible and wait until the rogue comes out to play and then seduce/nuke/CoE him and he won't have a chance, the being undead thing kind of sucks but CoE him and stall until he can be feared/seduced and it shouldn't be too hard since warlocks have high hp and should have a healthstone/potion with them.