If you are losing faith in God

Sipher77 said:
I guess that is one interpretation. A deeper one would be likening to strengthing one's faith in the Lord through tests.

Think of this. If my dad gave me $100 for getting a C on a physics test, I will do just enough studying to guarantee myself a C on a test in order to get $100. Now I can be content doing this forever. This is like Job before his tests.

Now think of this, my dad becoming tired in the way I do the bare mininmum decides to up the ante. He no longer says he will give me money for getting a C on a test. Now he will give me $150 for a B on every test and nothing for a C. Though it will require more work studying on my part, the reward is greater, and thus I will study harder to get my cash.

This is kinda the way how God operates. He tests us not to see if we pass, but to see if after these trials, we will come closer to him and have a stronger relationship. Its not God that is wrong, it is human nature.
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Yeah that's cool until you get to the part where Satan goaded God into it. It wasn't some plan God had cooked up to test Job, it was Satan's idea that he executed every step of the way. I mean seriously, how else can you possibly interpret this:
[Satan] Hey God I bet that guy won't worship you anymore if you torture him.
[God] I bet he will.
(God tortures him)
[Satan] Nah, you didn't torture him enough.
[God] Ok, fine.
(God tortures him some more)
[Satan] Yeah I deal with more torture than that every time I take a shit, try again.
[God] Alright then how about this.
(God tortures him some more)
[Satan] :lol: alright you win bye.
[God] Here's a bunch of stuff for overcoming Satan!
(Gives Job stuff)
 
Mudman said:
I do not know what this is but it's dumb.
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Many Christians dont know too much about the outer darkness and the millenial kingdom, but both are mentioned in the Bible. The millenial kingdom is the reward for overcoming Christians where they will reign as co-kings with Christ for 1000 years. The outer darkness is where believers and righteous men suffer "much weeping and gnashing of teeth" for 1000 years. After all this, both parties get eternal salvation with the Lord.
 
KryandArturo said:
Yeah that's cool until you get to the part where Satan goaded God into it. It wasn't some plan God had cooked up to test Job, it was Satan's idea that he executed every step of the way. I mean seriously, how else can you possibly interpret this:
[Satan] Hey God I bet that guy won't worship you anymore if you torture him.
[God] I bet he will.
(God tortures him)
[Satan] Nah, you didn't torture him enough.
[God] Ok, fine.
(God tortures him some more)
[Satan] Yeah I deal with more torture than that every time I take a shit, try again.
[God] Alright then how about this.
(God tortures him some more)
[Satan] :lol: alright you win bye.
[God] Here's a bunch of stuff for overcoming Satan!
(Gives Job stuff)
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God himself did not do anything to Job but it was Satan. Since God is sinless he cannot/will not do any act of injustice to the righteous. Thus only Satan can and that is the purpose of his existence.
 
KryandArturo said:
Yeah that's cool until you get to the part where Satan goaded God into it. It wasn't some plan God had cooked up to test Job, it was Satan's idea that he executed every step of the way. I mean seriously, how else can you possibly interpret this:
[Satan] Hey God I bet that guy won't worship you anymore if you torture him.
[God] I bet he will.
(God tortures him)
[Satan] Nah, you didn't torture him enough.
[God] Ok, fine.
(God tortures him some more)
[Satan] Yeah I deal with more torture than that every time I take a shit, try again.
[God] Alright then how about this.
(God tortures him some more)
[Satan] :lol: alright you win bye.
[God] Here's a bunch of stuff for overcoming Satan!
(Gives Job stuff)
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Do you not accept only good from the Lord. If the Lord blesses you, you are happy. If he curses you, you disdain him as father and say he is doing wrong, yet when he does good you commend him.

The only reason Job got hit so bad by Satan is that God removed the hedge (job. 1:9) from Job that God put around him in the first place, enabling Job to be tested. The hedge originally prevented any of Satan's attacks.

So God began by blessing him, then allowing Satan to test him to see if Job really believed God would see a job through till the end.

Job started with with half as many produce as God gave him to begin with. His siblings remained. God finished by giving Job 14,000 sheep, 6000 camels, 1000 of oxen(double, read end of Job.).

Job watched his children reproduce to the fourth generation. He lived to 140 years.

My own theory in this is that Job's sons were originally sinful, because they were the only thing Job even lost through the entire ordeal. This would've minimized their sin in God's sight allowing them a better ressurection.

Job offered the perfect example of how God blesses. Simply removing a blessing can destroy just about anything in creation.
 
Well you might be right about that now that I think about it, but it still doesn't change anything. God allowing Satan to torture Job is exactly the same as if God had done it himself for the purpose of the discussion.
 
I completely disagree. You misunderstand the boundaries. The whole earth is Satan's to begin with, after Adam sinned. God is still able to bless though, as illustrated with Job. Only thing is, for the PURPOSES of making the book of Job, he removed blessing in order to prove how god himself wants us to have good things in this life and sometimes will test us to see if we're worth it.
 
Before any of this happened, Job was already blessed in preparation for this test. This was to make the purpose of blessing clear. At the beginning of Job, Job already was the most righteous and blessed man in the land and was esteemed by all who dwelled in the land of Asia.

Also note that Job was not a Jew, as most people in old testament are. This was meant to show before the new covenant that God is willing to bless gentile as well as Jew.
 
KryandArturo said:
Who exactly is Satan?
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Satan is the highest angel second only to God. Giving him extraordinary abilities to deceive his creation.

By impersonating God in the garden, he was able to persuade Adam, who had authority over the world, to hand over authority to Satan.
 
Dear god,
Dont know if you noticed,
But your name is on a lot of quotes in this book.
Us crazy humans wrote it, you should take a look.
 
Togowack said:
Satan is the highest angel second only to God. Giving him extraordinary abilities to deceive his creation.

By impersonating God in the garden, he was able to persuade Adam, who had authority over the world, to hand over authority to Satan.
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Hmm, now that's delving into the whole Catholic Heaven idea with tons of complicated ranks and a gigantic back story. I'd like to know where all of that is written, who wrote it, and how they came to know such details. The only thing I can remember from when I used to be Christian are the parables.
 
Lothar of the Hillpeople said:
God allowed him to do it, you idiot, which is just as bad.
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God didn't have to protect Job in the first place, Job was always going to go to heaven when he died regardless if he got blessed in this material realm. And if you count the material realm as anything, realize we are all about 1/4 the way towards death anyways, and most rich people die miserable anyways.
 
Togowack said:
God didn't have to protect Job in the first place, Job was always going to go to heaven when he died regardless if he got blessed in this material realm. And if you count the material realm as anything, realize we are all about 1/4 the way towards death anyways, and most rich people die miserable anyways.
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It's not just that he didn't protect him. He specifically told Satan to do whatever the hell he wanted to him to prove his point that Job was a true follower. That's the reason all that stuff happened to him.
 
Sheila: Kyle, we wanna tell you about the book of Job. It's a story from the Bible.
Kyle: I've had enough of the Bible. What has it gotten me?
Gerald: Oh, I think you'll see differently after hearing this. Sit down, Kyle. [Kyle gets cross, and Gerald corrects himself] Uh, okay. [begins the story. A Middle Eastern scene appears] You see, Job lived in the east of Jordan a long long time ago. [camera pans across the landscape and rests behind a man in a red robe and long gray hair] Job was a great man. He was blessed with ten lovely children [they come out of a building with their mother], a wonderful wife, and many friends. [his friends show up to join the family behnd Job, a proud and happy man]
Sheila: [a shot of Job petting a bull] He was godly, and a good man, and fed the poor. [Job brings a bag of food to a woman with three kids next to her. One of them, a girl, walks up, and her mother hands her a loaf of bread]
Gerald: He was the most upright and honorable of men, and every day he praised God. [Job falls to his knees in praise, as his shepherds look on]
Sheila: But one day, Satan went up to heaven and talked to God.
Kyle: [still mad] Satan talked to God?
Sheila: Yes, in the book of Job, Satan talks to God. And God says to Satan, "Have you seen Job? He is a great man, and he praises me every day."
Gerald: But Satan said, "Oh yeah? He only praises you because you gave him so much. If you didn't give him those things, he would curse your name."
Sheila: To which God said, "Oh yeah? I'll show you, Satan! I'll take those things away from Job and he will still praise my name."
Gerald: And so, God had a bunch of barbarians come in and slaughter Job's oxen and donkeys, and murder all his workers. [that scene is shown]
Sheila: Then God sent his fireballs from the sky and killed his sheep and the rest of his employees. [meteorites rain down and destroy the fields and workers there, as well as the sheep]
Gerald: And then, as Job's sons and daughters were eating, God sent a mighty wind to collapse the house and crush and kill them all. [the palm trees bend low as the winds pick up, then the two-story house collapses as the palm trees are swept away by the winds, and Job's family dies]
Sheila: Job was terribly sad, but he fell to his knees and said, "The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh away," and praised God's name. [Job falls to his knees and prays to God.]
Gerald: So then, Job got painful sores all over his body. [shown, with the burning fields behind him]
Sheila: He was in terrible, miserable pain all day, every day. But he still kept his faith. [another shot of Job among the dead, then a close-up of Job with his sores]
Gerald: God said to Sata, "See? I told you. Job still praises me." [all that is heard after that is the sound of the heart monitor attached to Kyle.]
Kyle: [a few seconds later] And that's it? That's the end?
Sheila: Basically.
Kyle: That's the most horrible story I've ever heard. Why would God do such a horrible thing to a good person just to prove a point to Satan?
Gerald: Oh. Uhhh, I don't know.
Kyle: Then I was right. Job has all his children killed, and Michael Bay gets to keep making movies. There isn't a God.
 
Lothar of the Hillpeople said:
It's not just that he didn't protect him. He specifically told Satan to do whatever the hell he wanted to him to prove his point that Job was a true follower. That's the reason all that stuff happened to him.
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I know what point you are trying to get at and I understand. I really do...When you look at it from the point of God could have stopped Job's suffering if he wanted to, then yes, God does look like a sadist.

But! There is another way to look at it. Yes, God was testing Job's faith, but not to God. God was merely testing Job's faith so that Job knew where he stood. Since God is all knowing he knows the boundaries of our faith and will never test above that boundary. Job did not necessarily know how deep his faith truly was until he was tested.

After the ordeal, Job had a deeper relationship and understanding of God. So though Job suffered much hardship, in Christian terms, he gained much from it as well.

Only through suffering can we truly value God for what he really is. If God blessed us with wealth and material for being devoted to him, we would have a very superficial relationship with God. Kind of like how some people take trophy wives regardless of any real connection there. But through hardship and pain, we come to truly understand the Lord and as a result have a more solid relationship with him.
 
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