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ChiNa
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261 - 07-05-2008, 19:37
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One of the most notable lines in the New Testament is uttered by Pontius Pilatus.

"Truth, what is truth?" (John 14:6)

Faith requires the acceptance of an absolute Truth. That's a truth written with a capital T, a truth provided by God himself. I rejected the notion of faith and rejected the doctrine that salvation would be granted only to those who would accept such an absolute truth blindly, without firm evidence to support it.

Instead, I reasoned that a person would have to discover truth by determining values. A person would have to weigh and compare values, examine contrasting opinions, judge the merit of different believes and be brave enough to face evidence that points to you being wrong. Truth is not a given and blind acceptance of truth it is not a virtue. You have to work to find Truth, it's a struggle.

Israel was the name YHVH gave to Jacob after he blessed him. According to the bible an Israelite is "he who struggled with God and prevailed". I really enjoy this idea. Not to blindly accept what you're told, but to wrestle with God as a way to find value and to find truth.
 
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Last edited by ChiNa; 07-05-2008 at 19:48..
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hyung
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262 - 07-05-2008, 19:57
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****, ChiNa's posting in this thread?

I should have went through it.
 
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ChiNa
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Old
263 - 07-05-2008, 20:00
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fanmail!
 
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Togowack
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264 - 07-05-2008, 20:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by escapedturkey View Post
You prayed for a Jeep and received it. Instead of praying for the end of human suffering and accomplishing world peace. I'm glad god has his priorities straight.
I have alot of problems to deal with myself that are more immediate. When it comes to these kinds of problems, honestly I don't pray, but I have given quite a bit of money. See the money hurts more than just a little prayer. But when you give you feel good about it too.
 
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Togowack
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265 - 07-05-2008, 20:15
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Originally Posted by Gil View Post
All through my young life, my parents and my church taught that it was wrong to have sexual feelings for other people unless you were married. When I was 12, I saw a couple of my classmates start to get a little close. I realized that I would probably like that. (this is when I first "started noticing girls") Before this, and for a long time after, I thought my classmates were as innocent as I was. Being attracted to them was bad, and why would anyone want to be bad?

About this time I figured out what my dick was for, and began using it. I felt bad every time I did this, and tried to do so as seldom as possible. If my parents found out, they would tell me time and again how bad I was for doing it and that I should pray for forgiveness. I wasn't allowed to watch MTV or shows like 90210 in my late teens because they were too "vulgar".

One time when I was 16, a girl pointed to the bulge in my gym shorts. She was cute and was nice to me, but her interest in my package completely confused me. Girls weren't supposed to like boys, and they weren't interested in sex, or so I had learned all along. They didn't like sex, but they would go along with it if they liked the guy enough, but it was still wrong for the guy to even think about asking.


Since that time when I was 12, all I wanted to have was a girlfriend. I didn't even want to have sex -- I'd be good. I just wanted to have a close, loving connection. I prayed and prayed about it. I prayed for years. I said I would not sin, would do anything and everything I could. Then, when I didn't get it right away, I went ahead and did what I said I would, just to prove myself, in case god was testing me.

After 8 years of constant failure (I tried about 9 times across those 8 years, asking girls out, to dance, to lunch, etc) I finally gave up. If god was really testing me, then he had pushed me too far and had not only broken me but had lost a follower. He lost one of his most loyal servants, and that church lost one of its most committed members.



Since that time 6 years ago, I have learned that it's charm, charisma, and confidence that attract women, not god or church or religion. God could have taught me this and shown me the way, or ran me into a religious girl who was also awkward but would like me. But no. Either he failed, or he decided that I wasn't worth it or something. If my best wasn't good enough, then it never would have been, and he wasn't worth my time.
Well that leaves only one thing. My faith started when I met Jesus 6 years ago, and became born again. You need to seek him first, forget about all these rules and no nos given by people you know because you now realize this does nothing.

New Testament says the only way to the Father(God), is through his son Jesus who was given as ransom. Now without Jesus you would be under the curse which you are still under, which Moses and the people before Jesus were under. In that time it was a hard thing to know God.

Best thing though is to seek him first. I know what you feel when it comes to girls, especially when they are looking for charm and stuff. I realize these girls aren't for me as they have their agenda focused on only living in the world, and not living for the Lord. I can't be together with that girl.

Everything I asked for in prayer I asked for in Jesus name, not God's name(assuming your catholic and kind of ignore jesus), not Buddahs or Allah's name. If I asked for a girlfriend I would surely get one, but I am satisfied.

If you seek the kingdom of heaven first, (which it says to do), he will give you the things you need for you to enjoy to the fullest. But Jesus is the key here.
 
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ScooBySnaCk
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266 - 07-05-2008, 20:18
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to be a noble person in real life takes acts of humility. I try but fail so far
 
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Gil
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267 - 07-05-2008, 20:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Togowack View Post
Well that leaves only one thing. My faith started when I met Jesus 6 years ago, and became born again. You need to seek him first, forget about all these rules and no nos given by people you know because you now realize this does nothing.

New Testament says the only way to the Father(God), is through his son Jesus who was given as ransom. Now without Jesus you would be under the curse which you are still under, which Moses and the people before Jesus were under. In that time it was a hard thing to know God.

Best thing though is to seek him first. I know what you feel when it comes to girls, especially when they are looking for charm and stuff. I realize these girls aren't for me as they have their agenda focused on only living in the world, and not living for the Lord. I can't be together with that girl.

Everything I asked for in prayer I asked for in Jesus name, not God's name(assuming your catholic and kind of ignore jesus), not Buddahs or Allah's name. If I asked for a girlfriend I would surely get one, but I am satisfied.

If you seek the kingdom of heaven first, (which it says to do), he will give you the things you need for you to enjoy to the fullest. But Jesus is the key here.
You aren't hearing what I'm saying. I don't know why I keep typing, but I'll try one last time to get through.


I tried all that. I did it all. I did everything I could. I asked Jesus, god, the spirit, all of them. Either they failed me, or pushed me too far in testing. Either way they lost me, and they haven't sought me out since. If he wants me back, he's going to have to give me a lot more.
 
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Togowack
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268 - 07-05-2008, 20:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiNa View Post
One of the most notable lines in the New Testament is uttered by Pontius Pilatus.

"Truth, what is truth?" (John 14:6)

Faith requires the acceptance of an absolute Truth. That's a truth written with a capital T, a truth provided by God himself. I rejected the notion of faith and rejected the doctrine that salvation would be granted only to those who would accept such an absolute truth blindly, without firm evidence to support it.

Instead, I reasoned that a person would have to discover truth by determining values. A person would have to weigh and compare values, examine contrasting opinions, judge the merit of different believes and be brave enough to face evidence that points to you being wrong. Truth is not a given and blind acceptance of truth it is not a virtue. You have to work to find Truth, it's a struggle.

Israel was the name YHVH gave to Jacob after he blessed him. According to the bible an Israelite is "he who struggled with God and prevailed". I really enjoy this idea. Not to blindly accept what you're told, but to wrestle with God as a way to find value and to find truth.
I do too. History is full of people who wrestled with god, figuratively, to accomplish a goal. In one place in the new testament it says 'the kingdom of heaven is advancing, and violent men take it by force.'

Not inferring physical violence in the way the Koran is misunderstood, but a battle for the mind and spirit and body within a man. Means you wrestle control over your body, the thoughts of your mind, your time, and that which you believe in. Nothing false can stand in the mind of a believer, because the heart of the believer is where the holy spirit dwells and urges you in your heart when you make decisions.
 
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escapedturkey
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269 - 07-05-2008, 20:23
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Why would anyone come here to preach religion? It's like trying to find fresh fruit in a garbage bin that's been sitting there for 6 months.
 
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Togowack
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270 - 07-05-2008, 20:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil View Post
You aren't hearing what I'm saying. I don't know why I keep typing, but I'll try one last time to get through.


I tried all that. I did it all. I did everything I could. I asked Jesus, god, the spirit, all of them. Either they failed me, or pushed me too far in testing. Either way they lost me, and they haven't sought me out since. If he wants me back, he's going to have to give me a lot more.
I must be misunderstanding you. Exactly what are you looking for? A girlfriend? So are you trying to ask Jesus for a girlfriend, without even knowing him?

How often do you read the bible and for how long have you? which bible is it?

And since you seem to want a girlfriend more than anything else, what have you done about that?
 
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Togowack
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271 - 07-05-2008, 20:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by escapedturkey View Post
Why would anyone come here to preach religion? It's like trying to find fresh fruit in a garbage bin that's been sitting there for 6 months.
Because I think alot of people here could use help, and maybe I would feel better helping them.
 
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-=TTC=-Serpreme
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272 - 07-05-2008, 20:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiNa View Post
One of the most notable lines in the New Testament is uttered by Pontius Pilatus.

"Truth, what is truth?" (John 14:6)

Faith requires the acceptance of an absolute Truth. That's a truth written with a capital T, a truth provided by God himself. I rejected the notion of faith and rejected the doctrine that salvation would be granted only to those who would accept such an absolute truth blindly, without firm evidence to support it.

Instead, I reasoned that a person would have to discover truth by determining values. A person would have to weigh and compare values, examine contrasting opinions, judge the merit of different believes and be brave enough to face evidence that points to you being wrong. Truth is not a given and blind acceptance of truth it is not a virtue. You have to work to find Truth, it's a struggle.

Israel was the name YHVH gave to Jacob after he blessed him. According to the bible an Israelite is "he who struggled with God and prevailed". I really enjoy this idea. Not to blindly accept what you're told, but to wrestle with God as a way to find value and to find truth.
blah blah blah i don't take facts and empirical evidence as truth. I take emotions and such. blah blah blah twisting words.
 
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ChiNa
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273 - 07-05-2008, 20:32
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Originally Posted by -=TTC=-Serpreme View Post
blah blah blah i don't take facts and empirical evidence as truth. I take emotions and such. blah blah blah twisting words.
 
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orbital 123
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274 - 07-05-2008, 20:37
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The only proof you can offer is Biblical end time prophecy. Anything else won't work on most people. Even if you acted like Christ himself you wouldn't convince most people that there is any truth to what you are saying. They will just think you are an idiot and easily taken advantage of. Now, if you can point out specific events in the Bible that were prophecied and that have occured in modern times. Then you have some ground to stand on.
 
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Togowack
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275 - 07-05-2008, 20:46
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lol, orbitatroll!

I thought you were against the bible?
 
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Gil
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276 - 07-05-2008, 21:03
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Originally Posted by Togowack View Post
I must be misunderstanding you. Exactly what are you looking for? A girlfriend? So are you trying to ask Jesus for a girlfriend, without even knowing him?
I thought I'd just explained how I had done a ton of work to get to know him. Everyone I'd known back then had told me I was on the right track.

Quote:
How often do you read the bible and for how long have you? which bible is it?
Back when I believed, I read it more frequently than most catholics, I assure you. And since when does it matter which version of the bible I read? You're just nit-picking.

Quote:
And since you seem to want a girlfriend more than anything else, what have you done about that?
See, it's not about what god can do for me. It's about what I can do for myself and give him credit for. It's the same as you did with your jeep. This is exactly why I stopped believing. I saw tons of people doing for themselves and a few of them credited god for most of it. Those that didn't weren't better off; in fact they were slightly worse because they gave so much to the church.
 
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escapedturkey
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277 - 07-05-2008, 21:11
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Was jesus a communist, capitalist, or socialist?
 
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ChiNa
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278 - 07-05-2008, 22:21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orbital 123 View Post
The only proof you can offer is Biblical end time prophecy. Anything else won't work on most people. Even if you acted like Christ himself you wouldn't convince most people that there is any truth to what you are saying. They will just think you are an idiot and easily taken advantage of. Now, if you can point out specific events in the Bible that were prophecied and that have occured in modern times. Then you have some ground to stand on.
The bible doesn't provide any evidence when it comes to end time prophecy. The murkey style in which the prophecies are written offers an unlimited amount of interpretations so that any possibility of conclusive evidence is quickly ruled out. There's even one prophecy in the New Testament that definitely did not come true. This is of secondary importance however if you try to establish why people look towards prophecy.

Prophecy provides a way for people to make sense of the world. In the first century, the book of Revelations was written as a consolation for a community of oppressed Christians. In the prophecies their resentment towards Rome finds expression and they are insured of the return of their Savior, who will take away their suffering and condemn their oppressors.

These days Rome has been replaced with New York, or any other city that the believer may point towards as the unholy cause of their misery. Using biblical prophecy they attempt to imprint values on a world that is indifferent to them. If we may believe the bible, ours is a fallen and unholy world. By warning others that it will soon end they hope to give meaning to their own lifes.

In the same way, religion is not at all about God. It's about values! We bestow the universe with values. It's how we cope with a universe that's fundamentally indifferent to our existence - or existence in general for that matter. We create those values and they shape the world around us - they literaly recreate our universe.

Now the greatest value that Jesus taught us is the value of love - agape. Love, according to Jesus ought to be equated to God and he who has it, has God.

What's the use of prophecy, of faith, of sin, of religion, if one has love reshaping your world? That's precisely what the gospel is all about. That's the kingdom of God.


Now where does one find love but within? I know I may sound opaque to some of you as I'm struggling here to convey this incredible sense of value that I'm feeling for myself and consequently for others. But I can only encourage you to explore the feeling of worth that you may have for self so that some day too you can feel the love that I feel. It's the kingdom of God, not in some other worldly place, but right here on earth. As Sons of God, it's our inheritance!
 
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Zulu
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279 - 07-05-2008, 22:25
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So let me get this straight, you believe that self-love is the kingdom of god?
 
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Stilgar
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280 - 07-05-2008, 22:25
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Please explain the reason the book of Enoch was excluded?
 
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