How to convert Unbelievers

Sipher77 said:
Ah, I see what he means now. This is from a website that I googled to try and find the context of what Togowack meant.

"Moses tells us--Jesus tells us--that we must not put God to the test. To test God means much more than trying to get Him to do a miracle; to test God is to insist that He prove that He is trustworthy. To test God is to look at today's difficulties and say, "A loving God would never let me suffer in this way. Maybe if things get better, then I can trust Him." To test God is to ask, as Israel did, "Is God with us or not?" God has shown us that He is with us; He has nothing to prove to us. If we refuse to see it, we are as blind as Israel was in the wilderness."

http://www.mckenziestudycenter.org/bible/articles/testing.html

I have not found a biblical passage that directly states to test God, so maybe Togowack can aid me and quoting something where the Bible says that. Until I find a passage like that, this line of inquiry will have to be put on hold.
Click to expand...

Fair enough
 
T-Refried-455 said:
how much adderall does it take to troll this long on this many threads on this same topic
Click to expand...

I am no troll, for I am one with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit has given me strenght to spread the Word. I am not tired of discussing the Word and will continue until I hear otherwise from God.
 
Sipher77 said:
If this is what God tells you then that is what he requires of you. I feel through the Holy Spirit that what God requires of me is faith.

I will keep in mind what you mentioned about a the Septaugint and Talmud.

I am curious btw, what is the major difference between the Christian faith and the Judaistic one?
Click to expand...

I would say that the major difference is that Judaism relies on a national God. YHVH is the God of gods, who´s unity represents the unity of the twelve tribes of Israel. The Son of God in the Old Testament is not a person but it is the nation of Israel.

"This is what the Lord God says: Israel is my first-born son." (Exodus 4:22)

In Christianity, God is universal and not exclusive to the nation of Israel. The identity of the Son of God is reinterpreted as a person, as the individual. There´s a certain notion of equality contained in this interpretation. It seeks to dissolve the boundaries between nations as well as between God and man.
 
ChiNa said:
I would say that the major difference is that Judaism relies on a national God. YHVH is the God of gods, who´s unity represents the unity of the twelve tribes of Israel. The Son of God in the Old Testament is not a person but it is the nation of Israel.

"This is what the Lord God says: Israel is my first-born son." (Exodus 4:22)

In Christianity, God is universal and not exclusive to the nation of Israel. The identity of the Son of God is reinterpreted as a person, as the individual. There´s a certain notion of equality contained in this interpretation. It seeks to dissolve the boundaries between nations as well as between God and man.
Click to expand...

Do you believe in Jesus Christ, and all he said in NT?
 
Sipher77 said:
Before I was saved, the only thing measure I had for my self worth was how much money I had in the bank, and how many girls I had sex with. This pleased me for a while, but when the pleasure started to fade and I realized something else was missing in my life I realized that real joy and real satisfaction comes from loving God and practicing his teachings in my life.

When I realized the importance of helping others with no intention of repayment, and loving others unconditionally, I fell in love with God's word and how it changed my life.

Though the temptation is still there occasionally to take advantage of women, or accumulate large amounts of money and cool toys, I no longer feel attached to it as the reason for my existence. I want just enough money to live and support myself. I do not want casual sex but a mutal relationship with solid foundations, a symbiotic relationship with a girl.
Click to expand...

Before I lost my religion, the only measure I had for my self worth was how often I prayed, how much I did for others, and how little I could get in return for it. This pleased me for a while, but when the pleasure started to fade and I realized something else was missing in my life I realized that a lot of people found greater joy in everyday activities, like hanging out, watching tv and movies, watching sports, shopping, and playing video games.

I've only just begun to understand the importance of being social with others, and allowing myself to be vulnerable. I have formed a group of people around me, and am starting to be able to feel the actual, real love that radiates from each of them.

Though I have a number of religious people around me, and the temptation is still there occasionally to return to church services or believe in a superbeing, I no longer feel attached to it as the reason for my existence. I want just enough money to live and support myself. I do not want one-sided love from people, nor do I want one-sided love from a superbeing who may or may not be there. I want reciprocal love; where you love someone, and you can feel that person loving you back.



I think the biggest problem you guys have with me is I'm a total antithesis of your experiences. I have the same goals and needs as you do, but I'm going the opposite direction to find them.
 
Sipher77 said:
Ah, I see what he means now. This is from a website that I googled to try and find the context of what Togowack meant.

"Moses tells us--Jesus tells us--that we must not put God to the test. To test God means much more than trying to get Him to do a miracle; to test God is to insist that He prove that He is trustworthy. To test God is to look at today's difficulties and say, "A loving God would never let me suffer in this way. Maybe if things get better, then I can trust Him." To test God is to ask, as Israel did, "Is God with us or not?" God has shown us that He is with us; He has nothing to prove to us. If we refuse to see it, we are as blind as Israel was in the wilderness."

http://www.mckenziestudycenter.org/bible/articles/testing.html

I have not found a biblical passage that directly states to test God, so maybe Togowack can aid me and quoting something where the Bible says that. Until I find a passage like that, this line of inquiry will have to be put on hold.
Click to expand...

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/test.html
 
nada said:
As soon as science starts proving some of these big ideas, I'll revoke my internet access (lolnerdlol). Start with gravity.

I know there is a difference between faith and AWESOME scientific method. And I know there is a difference between the SUPER passing down of academic knowledge and religious practicing. Unfortunately, nobody has any real answers, and both sides get awfully hung up despite that.
Click to expand...
We're very, very close to proving (OR DISPROVING) one possible way that gravity is the same force as magnetism and the other 2 forces. The LHC being built in Europe will prove (OR DISPROVE) this idea.

Then we have 1 type of matter-energy, and 1 force that acts on it. I think the force is just another form of that matter-energy, which means the entire universe (and all the space between) is really all the same stuff. Then we'll have to figure out why it's that way.




These things take time. You realize we've only been trying to figure shit out like this for a few hundred years. Religions have had tens of thousands of years, and haven't explained nearly as much as science has .
 
Sipher77 said:
Do you believe in Jesus Christ, and all he said in NT?
Click to expand...

No. I don't believe that the New Testament is the word of God as I think that it fundamentally misrepresents the teachings of Jesus. The teachings of Jesus can be summed up as follows:

"Resist not evil".

Jesus taught a practise, a way of life that can be described as radical non resistance. The practise of his teachings would lead a person to discover the Kingdom of God within himself. Traces of this doctrine can still be found in the discription of the sermon on the mount, his teaching of forgiveness and his command to love your enemy. The silence he kept during his trial and the obedience by which he carried his cross are a testament to his teachings.

I believe that his death on the cross was misinterpreted by his followers as payment of debt for their sins. Because his followers didn't understand his teaching of non-resistance, the earliest Christians created some pretty gruesome doctrines that are direct contradictions of Jesus' teachings. Instead of forgiveness they preached the Last Judgment, instead of loving their enemies they misrepresented the person of Jesus as the bringer of vengeance upon their prosecutors.

The way his earliest followers reacted is very understandable. I too have doubts concerning the morality of non-resistance. Their are many instances where it would be moral to resist - one can ask himself if in some instances it would even be immoral to not resist.
 
ChiNa said:
No. I don't believe that the New Testament is the word of God as I think that it fundamentally misrepresents the teachings of Jesus. The teachings of Jesus can be summed up as follows:

"Resist not evil".

Jesus taught a practise, a way of life that can be described as radical non resistance. The practise of his teachings would lead a person to discover the Kingdom of God within himself. Traces of this doctrine can still be found in the discription of the sermon on the mount, his teaching of forgiveness and his command to love your enemy. The silence he kept during his trial and the obedience by which he carried his cross are a testament to his teachings.

I believe that his death on the cross was misinterpreted by his followers as payment of debt for their sins. Because his followers didn't understand his teaching of non-resistance, the earliest Christians created some pretty gruesome doctrines that are direct contradictions of Jesus' teachings. Instead of forgiveness they preached the Last Judgment, instead of loving their enemies they misrepresented the person of Jesus as the bringer of vengeance upon their prosecutors.

The way his earliest followers reacted is very understandable. I too have doubts concerning the morality of non-resistance. Their are many instances where it would be moral to resist - one can ask himself if in some instances it would even be immoral to not resist.
Click to expand...

I can see the logic in your reasonings, and I agree that some early Christian practices were also extremely barbaric. I would have to say that the religious elite of the time did things that were of their own will and rose up many people to do these things in the name of God, even though it was in the name of man. This is not what a Christian should do.

I myself have a hard time comprehending some of the latter NT teachings and I do not necessarily enjoy reading epistles of Paul as much as I enjoy the readings of Christ's life (which I regard as some of the purest teachings).
 
Sipher77 said:
I can see the logic in your reasonings, and I agree that some early Christian practices were also extremely barbaric. I would have to say that the religious elite of the time did things that were of their own will and rose up many people to do these things in the name of God, even though it was in the name of man. This is not what a Christian should do.

I myself have a hard time comprehending some of the latter NT teachings and I do not necessarily enjoy reading epistles of Paul as much as I enjoy the readings of Christ's life (which I regard as some of the purest teachings).
Click to expand...

I see Paul as the founder of Christianity, the religion. I think that Paul attempted to create a synthesis between greek Philosophy (Platonism in particular) and Judaism. In doing so he reinterpreted the crucifixion along Old Testament lines of sacrifise or a payment of debt for sin, and he coupled this to the Platonic idea of a purely spiritual resurrection.

Paul's version gained the most momentum and was eventually accepted as orthodoxy, with one exception. The Hebrew idea of a bodily resurrection remained gospel, even though all Hebrew versions of the original gospels were destroyed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top