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Amadeus
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101 - 10-15-2020, 16:05
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Originally Posted by StapleMammal1 View Post
2. The Earth was flooded. Half ass study geology and that fact becomes crystal clear. Of course putting every animal would not work. What would work is ---.
Here's 2.5 hours of material on how 8 different branches of science (geology included) independently disprove a global flood:

How Meteorology Disproves Noahs Flood - YouTube
 
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lemontw
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102 - 10-15-2020, 16:09
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did u spend as much effort disproving islam somewhere else?
 
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Amadeus
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103 - 10-15-2020, 16:11
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Originally Posted by amRam View Post
You said we have discovered methods for reliably deciding what is true and what isn't and that they demonstrably work, and they repeatedly fail to confirm religious belief.

How do they fail to confirm something we know has existed since the dawn of man?
They fail to confirm the truth of religious belief. I.e. by the same methods that give us reason to believe that your computer will work and your car will start, we have no reason to believe that any religious claims are true.

Also you forgot to answer my question.
 
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Falhawk
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104 - 10-15-2020, 16:21
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Originally Posted by NoGodForMe View Post
Interesting when you look at the Wiki to see what religions are the most popular.
Major religious groups - Wikipedia
The problem is Christianity is based on Abrahamic religions, which has now been taken over by Islam in the middle east. So why do people in the USA care about an Abrahamic religion?
Major religious groups Map
North and South America need their own religion.

This is why the USA needs a new bible, even if our country is only 244 years old. It actually started in 1492 with Christopher Columbus. That's 528 years. There has to be a God. But we don't have to worship stories form 2k years ago just because there is Jesus Christ who died on the cross. Or Muslims who believe in Mohamed. This is what causes wars. If you don't believe in their religion, they want you dead or they guilt you into following.

The USA won't be remembered in religious history, because we had nothing to do with the bible. Need to start our own. Can still have god, but the stories of our country and being good need to revolve around the USA. I'm sure many of the stories in the bible happened, but a lot of them are like a super powers movie and I don't believe them, especially the beginning of how humans and the earth were made, the ark, the flood, and so on. Needs to be re-written based on modern times.
I really didn't mean to come into this thread to make fun, but rather have discussion...

But that ngfm post is goddamn gold right there

THE USA NEEDS THEIR OWN RELIGION. NO MORE FOREIGN ****S!



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Falhawk
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105 - 10-15-2020, 16:25
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Also the posts above by Bob, amram, even Amadeus show why this is a good thread. Solid discussion there.

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amRam
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106 - 10-15-2020, 16:26
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Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
They fail to confirm the truth of religious belief. I.e. by the same methods that give us reason to believe that your computer will work and your car will start, we have no reason to believe that any religious claims are true.



Also you forgot to answer my question.
They fail to confirm the scientific truth of religious beliefs which is completely antithetical to religious beliefs in the first place. It has nothing to do with the physical world. Attempting to disprove "god" with science is as stupid as having fundamentalist belief of the old testament.
 
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samUwell
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107 - 10-15-2020, 16:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
Here's 2.5 hours of material on how 8 different branches of science (geology included) independently disprove a global flood:

How Meteorology Disproves Noahs Flood - YouTube
Not watching that as I am working but I think a big issue with the flood is how it is taken as the entire planet was literally covered in water.

Seeing as how 90+% of the human species has always lived near the oceans, it makes much more sense that a YUGE ice shelf in Antartica collapsed and the proceeding wave that went around the world engulfed millions of people living on the shoreline. To them, the world flooded, and that was what was written down, either in clay or in stone.
 
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Amadeus
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108 - 10-15-2020, 16:38
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Originally Posted by amRam View Post
They fail to confirm the scientific truth of religious beliefs which is completely antithetical to religious beliefs in the first place. It has nothing to do with the physical world. Attempting to disprove "god" with science is as stupid as having fundamentalist belief of the old testament.
Except there is always a point where people's god beliefs encroach on real life. When people pray, they're ostensibly asking their god to alter the physical world in their favor. Their religious beliefs drive them to very real actions in the physical world, like flying planes into buildings and protesting abortion.

And if your definition of religious belief is "belief in something that is by definition impossible to demonstrate and has no effect on the real world", then what reason is there to have any such beliefs?


Also you still haven't answered my question:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
For over 300,000 years, people thought that illnesses are caused by curses and demons, and can be cured by prayer. Is it arrogant to say they've been wrong all that time?
 
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samUwell
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109 - 10-15-2020, 16:42
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That's because the question is retarded.
 
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amRam
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110 - 10-15-2020, 16:43
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Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
And if your definition of religious belief is "belief in something that is by definition impossible to demonstrate and has no effect on the real world", then what reason is there to have any such beliefs?
That's not my definition at all. Religious belief quite obviously manifests itself in the physical world with great effect. What reason is there to have any such belief is then the critical question.

And I haven't answered your dumb question because its meaningless. Physical illness has physical causes, science found that out. Unless science has now also found the "anti-God" particle the line of questioning is irrelevant.
 
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Amadeus
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111 - 10-15-2020, 16:59
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Originally Posted by amRam View Post
That's not my definition at all. Religious belief quite obviously manifests itself in the physical world with great effect. What reason is there to have any such belief is then the critical question.

And I haven't answered your dumb question because its meaningless. Physical illness has physical causes, science found that out. Unless science has now also found the "anti-God" particle the line of questioning is irrelevant.
Ok, so tell me. What reason is there to believe that anything other than the physical world exists? Warning, "you don't know that it doesn't" isn't good enough.
 
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amRam
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112 - 10-15-2020, 17:03
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Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
Ok, so tell me. What reason is there to believe that anything other than the physical world exists? Warning, "you don't know that it doesn't" isn't good enough.
Your consciousness doesn't exist? The way you create abstractions in your mind about your existence in the physical world doesn't exist?

You're stuck on the physical. That's the issue with most atheists and why I'll have no part of it.
 
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Amadeus
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113 - 10-15-2020, 17:18
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Originally Posted by amRam View Post
Your consciousness doesn't exist? The way you create abstractions in your mind about your existence in the physical world doesn't exist?

You're stuck on the physical. That's the issue with most atheists and why I'll have no part of it.
What makes you say that? How did you determine that your consciousness is not purely a product of physical processes?
 
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amRam
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114 - 10-15-2020, 17:44
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Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
What makes you say that? How did you determine that your consciousness is not purely a product of physical processes?
C'mon dude don't be silly. Unless you're about to show me consciousness on the table of elements, or its molecular compound, this conversation is taking a wrong turn.
 
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Amadeus
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115 - 10-15-2020, 17:47
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Originally Posted by amRam View Post
C'mon dude don't be silly. Unless you're about to show me consciousness on the table of elements, or its molecular compound, this conversation is taking a wrong turn.
Did I not tell you that "you don't know that it isn't" is not a good enough answer?

We don't know how consciousness works. That doesn't mean it's supernatural any more than us not knowing what caused illnesses made illnesses supernatural.
 
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amRam
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116 - 10-15-2020, 17:49
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Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
Did I not tell you that "you don't know that it isn't" is not a good enough answer?



We don't know how consciousness works. That doesn't mean it's supernatural any more than us not knowing what caused illnesses made illnesses supernatural.
I'm cool with stopping at "we don't know how it works"

The next step doesn't have to automatically be that it's supernatural, but we should agree that at least for now, it's not something that occupies the space of physical sciences.

What is "supernatural" anyway?
 
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Mr Jimmy Pop
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117 - 10-15-2020, 17:55
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Originally Posted by Falhawk View Post
I do think it is interesting what people believe and why. Is it because of where and when they were born? Were they just raised that way? Did they find something later in life that just made sense to them?

The use of religion as a form of control over the masses is also interesting.

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My parents never really talked about religion much. We did go to church when we were little, did the first communion thing etc. but it was more tradition and what everyone did. So never had them telling us what to believe or not to believe. My parents were more concerned that we behave, work hard and be respectful to others.

I donít ever remember having faith in any religion. However DNA to me is programming, so not sure who the engineer is, but I believe that it is very likely that life as we know it was engineered. But really, who knows. I believe mankind will never know.
 
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amRam
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118 - 10-15-2020, 17:57
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As a sidebar to the discussion, prayer and other mental exercise can and does cure various illnesses. I suppose the question then is whether the illness it cured was "physical" and what that means in the first place.
 
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Amadeus
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119 - 10-15-2020, 18:00
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Originally Posted by amRam View Post
I'm cool with stopping at "we don't know how it works"

The next step doesn't have to automatically be that it's supernatural, but we should agree that at least for now, it's not something that occupies the space of physical sciences.
We should not in fact agree, just as people who thought that illnesses have supernatural causes were wrong to agree to that.

Just because you don't know how something works doesn't place it beyond the realm of physics. This is basic god of the gaps **** right here.
 
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Falhawk
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120 - 10-15-2020, 18:07
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Originally Posted by amRam View Post
I'm cool with stopping at "we don't know how it works"
I agree with this very much with only adding a 'yet' at the end (and I'm ignoring Amadeus' stuff)

Science is good about evolving. There are very few laws and that's for a reason, everything else is in flux.

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