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Kiint
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21 - 02-26-2013, 15:44
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Feannag
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22 - 02-26-2013, 16:25
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You can challenged Cook's Illustrated, but they are basically the Consumer Reports of culinary arts. They experiment and test the crap out of pretty much everything. So I'm pretty sure they know their **** about that. I'm trying to find the specific magazine I found it in, but it'll take some time.

As for Crisco, once again you aren't getting it. I simply use it to keep the dough from sticking to my hands and the bowl. I am not throwing dollops up the stuff into the dough, and nor do I omit the salt. Hell I accidentally did that one time, because of the whole issue of salt inhibiting the autolyse, and figured it would be fine. It was pretty bland, painfully bland. I sliced it up, and ground it up into bread crumbs because it I just couldn't it it without salt.

The Crisco is simply a light barrier to keep from sticking from everything. No matter how I mix, a sizeable amount of dough is lost to getting stuck to my hands and the bowl before the gluten properly forms. Plus I think I broke the water line in my dishwasher twice because of excess dough getting stuck in there. Didn't tell the sup that, but I try to keep as much dough out of there as possible.

But if you are so die-hard at not using it I'll just use cooking spray if it'll keep you quiet...
 
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nigafool
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23 - 02-26-2013, 16:32
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u just put bowls with non-water-soluble gluten in ur dishwasher?

how can u make bread but be too lazy to take 30 secs to hand wash a bowl
 
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Kiint
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24 - 02-26-2013, 16:42
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And yet centuries of bakers will disagree with them (Cook's Illustrated), and you on the issue of the role salt plays in baking bread. It in no way inhibits gluten development. It promotes gluten development, prevents dough oxidation, has a slight preservative effect, and acts as a yeast regulator for more reliable proving.

If you don't want to believe me, then try believing KAF - Salt - King Arthur Flour they would be a far more reliable source than Cooks Illustrated on matters related to baking bread.

Quote:
Salt tightens the gluten structure. The tightening gives strength to the gluten, enabling the dough to efficiently hold carbon dioxide, which is released into the dough as a byproduct of the yeast fermentation. When salt is left out, the resulting dough is slack and sticky in texture, work-up is difficult, and bread volume is poor.
If your errors are not corrected early, you will develop bad habits which will limit your future abilities when it comes to more complex doughs. So don't take what I say as being insulting, its constructive criticism to help you achieve better results long term. The crisco argument is purely a technique quibble, you're the one eating it not me, and even the thinnest of smears will affect your final bread regardless of how much pools in the tin at the end.
 
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Feannag
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25 - 02-26-2013, 16:58
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Your strangely adamant ranting on the use of Crisco seems to say otherwise.
 
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jjwtay
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26 - 02-26-2013, 17:24
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Personally I view cook's illustrated similarly to Good Eats. Great resource for people to learn new ideas/techniques but I always find the recipes themselves to be a bit bland and boring. That's probably the point since both are more for cooking education than anything else but felt it was worth saying.
 
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nigafool
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27 - 02-26-2013, 17:35
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i was going to make a similar comparison

they're great to learn from and plenty of their ideas/rules are sound, but they're not the 'final answer' even though they often frame themselves as such
 
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Kiint
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28 - 02-26-2013, 21:57
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Originally Posted by Feannag View Post
Your strangely adamant ranting on the use of Crisco seems to say otherwise.
You're right, I thought back on this and realised, if you want to use it, go for it, far be it from me to correct someone on the internet from across the world on how to bake bread.
 
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amRam
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29 - 02-27-2013, 00:55
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Hey bread nerds, teach me about pizza dough basics. What makes it different than regular bread?

Also I watched a food show and the guy was salivating about sourdough pizza in some New York joint. How do I make pizza sourdough?

I'm gonna start doing pizza in a modified Weber this spring.
 
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Kiint
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30 - 02-27-2013, 01:50
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amram, to be honest, there isn't any difference, its just really flat and wide.

You can add oils and **** to make it different, but my "country boule" recipe also doubles as my pizza base, the only difference I *sometimes* make is to retard the dough in the fridge for up to 3 days to make it extra chewy and flavourful.

If you want a thin style dough, use less yeast (about 1/4 typical amount) and let if prove longer, don't forget to dock (put heaps of holes in the dough) or it can bubble which can make toppings slide and ****. If you want a thick pan style dough, use a typical amount and let the dough prove a little before topping (that is punch down, roll out, don't dock, and instead let it prove to 1/2 to 3/4 inch thick before topping and baking).

Its actually pretty simple.

Edit: As for the sourdough pizza, it's just a sourdough bread. Learn to make a sourdough starter (plenty of internet sources out there, but the tip is to kick start it with pineapple juice instead of water, then move to water after the first couple of feedings, the acidity helps prevent mould growth and does nothing for the flavour long term).

My pizza dough recipe is basically the same as the 65% hydration "no kneed" dough above, except it uses 14g of yeast for a pan dough, and 4g of yeast for a thin dough. It also needs a LOT of kneading, so either use a mixer of get some nice strong forearms. The sourdough is exactly the same recipe, except you use 100g of sourdough starter instead of yeast and let it prove 24 hours or so before use to develop flavour, but this is a little more advanced and it helps to learn how to make sourdough first, remember, its just a loaf of bread thats really flat no matter what people tell you (hey, they have to be "different" after all, otherwise everyone would be making it).

Also, quick tip, the sauce makes the pizza. Open a tin of diced tomatoes, add in a few cloves of minced garlic, a little salt, some dried oregano and basil, and leave it in the fridge for 3 days. You should see a bit of fermentation foam in the middle, if so the sauce is ready to use. If not, use it anyway because it will go off if you leave it too long, it just wont taste as good.
 
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Last edited by Kiint; 02-27-2013 at 01:59..
nigafool
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31 - 02-27-2013, 09:17
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rosemary stout 'ciabatta' boules about halfway through baking

used sixpoint diesel for the stout

edit: not really sourdough but i did make a poolish/biga the night before
 
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Last edited by nigafool; 02-27-2013 at 09:24..
Feannag
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32 - 02-27-2013, 14:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjwtay View Post
Personally I view cook's illustrated similarly to Good Eats. Great resource for people to learn new ideas/techniques but I always find the recipes themselves to be a bit bland and boring. That's probably the point since both are more for cooking education than anything else but felt it was worth saying.
I use some good eats recipes, his three chocolate chip cookie variants have mixed results for me. The Chewy always comes out very well, but the Puffy never actually comes out for me. My only logic on why is I don't chill the dough nearly enough and it spreads faster when it bakes. But I like the chewy a lot so I stick to that.

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Originally Posted by Kiint View Post
You're right, I thought back on this and realised, if you want to use it, go for it, far be it from me to correct someone on the internet from across the world on how to bake bread.
It doesn't help when you front-load your supposed "experience" in an attempt to use that as a base for convincing me to believe everything you say. That is generally the worst thing to do in helping someone and it almost always turns most people off, and the ones you don't end up being drones who only know how to replicate recipes without any working knowledge about why or how they work.

And despite being the worst possible method to try and "teach" everyone in the U.S. does it and it's infuriating. You combine that kind of mentality with the new business models of college education and you wonder why Americans are generally stupid.

I've been doing fine being self-taught, and if I needed advice I'd go to an actual baker IRL rather than some jackass from the internet.
 
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Falhawk
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33 - 02-27-2013, 15:43
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i recently found out that kiint is a reference to a series of books.
 
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Shiloh
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34 - 02-27-2013, 19:05
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Originally Posted by Kiint View Post
And yet centuries of bakers will disagree with them (Cook's Illustrated), and you on the issue of the role salt plays in baking bread. It in no way inhibits gluten development. It promotes gluten development, prevents dough oxidation, has a slight preservative effect, and acts as a yeast regulator for more reliable proving.

If you don't want to believe me, then try believing KAF - Salt - King Arthur Flour they would be a far more reliable source than Cooks Illustrated on matters related to baking bread.
during the centuries of bread making, how much of their time was spent on no-knead recipes? and how many scientific studies on gluten development were done from 10,000 B.C. to 1850 A.D.?
 
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Kiint
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35 - 02-27-2013, 19:57
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No kneed? it can be traced at least to the 18th century 18th Century No-Knead ***8220;French***8221; Bread | Savoring the Past

You're being more of a douche than me on the second part, how many scientific studies were done on fire between 10,000BC to 1850AD? Straw man anyone?

*sigh* I really don't know why I come here anymore, such a festering hateful place.
 
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nigafool
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36 - 02-27-2013, 20:07
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Originally Posted by Kiint View Post
Another attractive woman on the internet ...

Quick clue, the internet is full of attractive women doing porn getting cummed on all the time. The fact you (supposedly) have a vagoo doesnt make you any more special when it comes to worthiness.

TW works just fine without women, in fact women appearing only adds to the entertainment value, and its not witty reparte they provide for entertainment either.

You are unprepared for what you have embarked on, you think you are strong, I can assure you you arent. You are weak and this forum will **** from a very high place on every ideal you hold dear to your heart. We don't care if you cry, in fact we love it even more if you do.

So, want to set yourself apart from the rest, timestamped vag with a TW logo and you will have the boys here creaming themselves all over you. Till then the occasional E-Knight will defend your honour, but ultimately the horde will prevail and you will run off crying at "those nasty bastards".
 
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Kiint
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37 - 02-27-2013, 20:08
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yeah that was fun, I think I get it now.

But then again niga, hasn't your glass house been totally destroyed by now?
 
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nigafool
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38 - 02-27-2013, 20:11
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vagoo
 
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Kiint
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39 - 02-27-2013, 20:18
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niglet
 
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darkpiece
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40 - 03-02-2013, 03:40
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another classic kint vs nigafool 1 day they meet in kitchen stadium and we see who is king
 
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