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TseTse
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Old
121 - 10-05-2008, 14:11
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Originally Posted by Kizzak View Post
You missed the point, the majority of NBER researchers are professors at universities so they would be what you are referring to theory.
Um, hold up.

The question wasnt about whether they are professors at universities. Perhaps my use of the term "academic" in contrast to "applied" was confusing. My point is that NBER seems a lot less about debating theory than it is about applied economics in business & policy, etc.

I'm gonna just go ahead and assume so, based on what i've seen about them.

THE POINT i raised is that they'd be a lot more right-leaning than your broader group of academic economists.
 
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Last edited by TseTse; 10-05-2008 at 14:17..
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Rilke
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122 - 10-05-2008, 14:12
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asdfadfdafdfa
 
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CarpeIppon
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123 - 10-05-2008, 14:13
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You can't take a slight majority of a sample of 14 people to mean jack **** you idiot. In any case, they are both bad, but Obama is less out of touch.

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Originally Posted by Kizzak View Post
You can take Friedman's seminal paper on the causes of the Great Depression as an example, he criticized the Fed not for intervening in the market but for failing to properly intervene in the market and his solution was to propose a rule-based system that would take the place of the Fed and set the interest rate based on a variety of macroeconomic indicators.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Friedman
One unsolved economic problem of the day is how to get rid of the Federal Reserve.
 
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Kizzak
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124 - 10-05-2008, 14:13
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Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby View Post
Hypothetically, if I could prove to a Keynesian that murder is an "efficient" means of population control or that America's peculiar institution was an "efficient" means of reducing the costs of farming prior to the industrial revolution, would the Keynesian advocate murder or slavery in those contexts? I would like to think that your average Keynesian would disagree with legislating either of those, efficiency and statistics be damned.
If you could prove that:
1. The solution was the most efficient
2. There is a need for the solution

Then yes, there would largely be an agreement in the context.


I don't think any economist would disagree that slavery was an efficient means of reducing costs of farming. The thing is most economists would also tend to use a marginal utility analysis and wind up determining that enslaving other humans decreases overall utility given they would include those slaves in the utility calculation. If they treated them as non-human, you would see the same conclusion reached as you see for machines or animals today.

Whereas an economist accepting the PETA vies of animals having rights would include them in their utility analysis and argue that there is a loss of utility there as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby View Post
Correct. Like I also said on page 2 or 3, the mainstream itself is left-leaning.
Given that there isn't really a definition of what is left or right, all you are doing is defining yourself as the median which is just an arbitrary definition.
 
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Dumpy Dooby
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125 - 10-05-2008, 14:14
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Originally Posted by ZOD View Post
This is quite true as Friedman wasn't an Austrian, he did his own thing. He believed in monetarism something the Austrian school is totally opposed to. He believed in minimal regulation, also something the Austrians do not.
Nobody is suggesting he was an Austrian. He was far from it. He was of the Chicago school of economics, not the Austrian school of economics. He was a scholar at the University of Chicago for crying out loud.

But that's right up your alley. Like I said earlier, your beloved Reagan is of the Chicago school of economics.
 
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Dumpy Dooby
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126 - 10-05-2008, 14:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzak View Post
If you could prove that:
1. The solution was the most efficient
2. There is a need for the solution

Then yes, there would largely be an agreement in the context.


I don't think any economist would disagree that slavery was an efficient means of reducing costs of farming. The thing is most economists would also tend to use a marginal utility analysis and wind up determining that enslaving other humans decreases overall utility given they would include those slaves in the utility calculation. If they treated them as non-human, you would see the same conclusion reached as you see for machines or animals today.

Whereas an economist accepting the PETA vies of animals having rights would include them in their utility analysis and argue that there is a loss of utility there as well.
I take it that "utility" is codeword for "whimsical emotion"? It's like the utilitarian that tries to apologize for his idiotic ethical philosophy.
 
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Kizzak
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127 - 10-05-2008, 14:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TseTse View Post
Um, hold up.

The question wasnt about whether they are professors at universities. Perhaps my use of the term "academic" in contrasts to "applied" was confusing. My point is that NBER seems a lot less about debating theory than it is about applied economics in business & policy, etc.
You'd be wrong. Working papers from NBER since August 31st:

Quote:
* Real Wage Inequality
Enrico Moretti #14370 (LS)
* Housing Externalities
Esteban Rossi-Hansberg, Pierre-Daniel Sarte, and Raymond Owens III #14369 (EFG, PE)
* An Experimental Component Index for the CPI: From Annual Computer Data to Monthly Data on Other Goods
Timothy Erickson and Ariel Pakes #14368 (IO, PR)
* Do Community Colleges provide a Viable Pathway to a Baccalaureate Degree?
Bridget Terry Long and Michal Kurlaender #14367 (ED)
* A Model of Capital and Crises
Zhiguo He and Arvind Krishnamurthy #14366 (AP, CF)
* Roy Model Sorting and Non-Random Selection in the Valuation of a Statistical Life
Thomas DeLeire and Christopher Timmins #14364 (EEE, LS)
* Can the West Save Africa?
William Easterly #14363 (EFG, POL)
* Is Sugar Sweeter at the Pump? The Macroeconomic Impact of Brazil’s Alternative Energy Program
Marc D. Weidenmier, Joseph H. Davis, and Roger Aliaga-Diaz #14362 (DAE, EFG, ME)
* Forecasting the Cost of U.S. Health Care in 2040
Robert W. Fogel #14361 (HC)
* Economic Factors Underlying the Unbundling of Advertising Agency Services
Mohammad Arzaghi, Ernst R. Berndt, James C. Davis, and Alvin J. Silk #14345 (EFG)

Week of September 14 - September 20, 2008

* Media versus Special Interests
Alexander Dyck, David Moss, and Luigi Zingales #14360 (POL)
* Policymaking for Posterity
Lawrence H. Summers and Richard J. Zeckhauser #14359 (EEE, IFM)
* The Panic of 2007
Gary B. Gorton #14358 (AP, CF, EFG, ME)
* Design Limits and Dynamic Policy Analysis
William A. Brock, Steven N. Durlauf, and Giacomo Rondina #14357 (EFG, ME)
* Field Experiments in Economics: The Past, The Present, and The Future
Steven D. Levitt and John A. List #14356 (PE)
* Trades of the Living Dead: Style Differences, Style Persistence and Performance of Currency Fund Managers
Momtchil Pojarliev and Richard M. Levich #14355 (IFM)
* Peer Effects and Human Capital Accumulation: the Externalities of ADD
Anna Aizer #14354 (CH, ED, HE, LS, PE)
* Measuring intertemporal preferences using response times
Christopher F. Chabris, David Laibson, Carrie L. Morris, Jonathon P. Schuldt, and Dmitry Taubinsky #14353 (HE, LS, PE)
* Fetal Exposure to Toxic Releases and Infant Health
Janet Currie and Johannes F. Schmieder #14352 (CH, EEE, HE, PE)
* Intermediated Quantities and Returns
Rajnish Mehra, Facundo Piguillem, and Edward C. Prescott #14351 (AP, EFG)
* Demanding Customers: Consumerist Patients and Quality of Care
Hai Fang, Nolan H. Miller, John A. Rizzo, and Richard J. Zeckhauser #14350 (HC, HE)
* Real-Time Measurement of Business Conditions
S. Boragan Aruoba, Francis X. Diebold, and Chiara Scotti #14349 (EFG)
* The Economics of Labor Market Intermediation: An Analytic Framework
David H. Autor #14348 (LS)
* Landed Interests and Financial Underdevelopment in the United States
Raghuram G. Rajan and Rodney Ramcharan #14347 (CF, POL)
* Divorce Law and Women’s Labor Supply
Betsey Stevenson #14346 (DAE, LE, LS)
* The Internationalization of Venture Capital and Private Equity
Joshua Aizenman and Jake Kendall #14344 (ITI)
* The Intergenerational Transfer of Public Pension Promises
Robert Novy-Marx and Joshua D. Rauh #14343 (AG, AP, CF, PE)
* Costly External Equity: Implications for Asset Pricing Anomalies
Dongmei Li, Erica X. N. Li, and Lu Zhang #14342 (AP, CF, EFG)
* Secrets of the Academy: The Drivers of University Endowment Success
Josh Lerner, Antoinette Schoar, and Jialan Wang #14341 (CF)

Week of September 7 - September 13, 2008

* Listing of Working PapersAsset Management, Human Capital, and the Market for Risky Assets
Isaac Ehrlich, William A. Hamlen Jr., and Yong Yin #14340 (AP, ED, LS)
* Leadership, Coordination and Mission-Driven Management
Patrick Bolton, Markus K. Brunnermeier, and Laura Veldkamp #14339 (CF)
* Gender Differences in Market Competitiveness in a Real Workplace: Evidence from Performance-based Pay Tournaments among Teachers
Victor Lavy #14338 (ED, LS)
* Imitative Obesity and Relative Utility
David G. Blanchflower, Andrew J. Oswald, and Bert Van Landeghem #14337 (HC, HE, LS)
* International Financial Remoteness and Macroeconomic Volatility
Andrew K. Rose and Mark M. Spiegel #14336 (IFM)
* The Efficacy of Parochial Politics: Caste, Commitment, and Competence in Indian Local Governments
Kaivan Munshi and Mark Rosenzweig #14335 (EFG, PE, POL)
* The Role of Exports in the Economy of Colonial North America: New Estimates for the Middle Colonies
Peter Mancall, Joshua Rosenbloom, and Thomas J. Weiss #14334 (DAE)
* Socioeconomic Status and Health: Dimensions and Mechanisms
David M. Cutler, Adriana Lleras-Muney, and Tom Vogl #14333 (AG, HC, HE)
* Managing Contribution and Capital Market Risk in a Funded Public Defined Benefit Plan: Impact of CVaR Cost Constraints
Raimond Maurer, Olivia S. Mitchell, and Ralph Rogalla #14332 (AG, LS, PE)
* Managerial Incentives and Value Creation: Evidence from Private Equity
Phillip Leslie and Paul Oyer #14331 (CF, IO, LE, LS)
* Simple Humans, Complex Insurance, Subtle Subsidies
Jeffrey Liebman and Richard Zeckhauser #14330 (HC, HE, PE)
* Wage Formation between Newly Hired Workers and Employers: Survey Evidence
Robert E. Hall and Alan B. Krueger #14329 (EFG, LS)
* Long-Term Care of the Disabled Elderly: Do Children Increase Caregiving by Spouses?
Liliana E. Pezzin, Robert A. Pollak, and Barbara S. Schone #14328 (LS)
* Can Policy Interact with Culture? Minimum Wage and the Quality of Labor Relations
Philippe Aghion, Yann Algan, and Pierre Cahuc #14327 (LS)
* Medicare Part D's Effects on Elderly Drug Costs and Utilization
Jonathan D. Ketcham and Kosali Simon #14326 (HC, HE)
* Valuing a Homeland Security Policy: Countermeasures for the Threats from Shoulder Mounted Missiles
V. Kerry Smith, Carol Mansfield, and Laurel Clayton #14325 (EEE)
* The Litigation of Financial Innovations
Josh Lerner #14324 (CF, PR)
* Strategic Interaction Among Heterogeneous Price-Setters In An Estimated DSGE Model
Olivier Coibion and Yuriy Gorodnichenko #14323 (EFG, ME)
* Phillips Curve Inflation Forecasts
James H. Stock and Mark W. Watson #14322 (EFG, ME)
* Capital Flow Bonanzas: An Encompassing View of the Past and Present
Carmen M. Reinhart and Vincent R. Reinhart #14321 (IFM)
* Optimal Minimum Wage Policy in Competitive Labor Markets
David Lee and Emmanuel Saez #14320 (LS, PE)
* Is a Donor in Hand Better than Two in the Bush? Evidence from a Natural Field Experiment
Craig E. Landry, Andreas Lange, John A. List, Michael K. Price, and Nicholas G. Rupp #14319 (EEE, PE)
* International evidence on well-being
David G. Blanchflower #14318 (LS)
* The Age Discrimination in Employment Act and the Challenge of Population Aging
David Neumark #14317 (AG)

Week of August 31 - September 6, 2008

* Listing of Working PapersDemand Estimation Under Incomplete Product Availability
Christopher T. Conlon and Julie Holland Mortimer #14315 (IO)
* Teacher Preparation and Student Achievement
Donald Boyd, Pamela Grossman, Hamilton Lankford, Susanna Loeb, and James Wyckoff #14314 (ED, LS)
* New Keynesian Models: Not Yet Useful for Policy Analysis
V.V. Chari, Patrick J. Kehoe, and Ellen R. McGrattan #14313 (EFG)
* How Much Does Immigration Boost Innovation?
Jennifer Hunt and Marjolaine Gauthier-Loiselle #14312 (LS)
* Pitfalls of Participatory Programs: Evidence From a Randomized Evaluation in Education in India
Abhijit Banerjee, Rukmini Banerji, Esther Duflo, Rachel Glennerster, and Stuti Khemani #14311 (CH)
* Housing Busts and Household Mobility
Fernando Ferreira, Joseph Gyourko, and Joseph Tracy #14310 (PE)
* The Effect of Medicare Coverage for the Disabled on the Market for Private Insurance
John F. Cogan, R. Glenn Hubbard, and Daniel P. Kessler #14309 (HC)
* The Prevalence and Effects of Occupational Licensing
Morris M. Kleiner and Alan B. Krueger #14308 (LS)
* Redistribution and Tax Expenditures: The Earned Income Tax Credit
Nada Eissa and Hilary Hoynes #14307 (PE)
* Inside the War on Poverty: The Impact of Food Stamps on Birth Outcomes
Douglas Almond, Hilary W. Hoynes, and Diane Whitmore Schanzenbach #14306 (CH, LS, PE)
* Reconsidering the Economics of Demand Analysis with Kinked Budget Constraints
Aaron Strong and V. Kerry Smith #14304 (EEE)
* Does Church Attendance Cause People to Vote? Using Blue Laws' Repeal to Estimate the Effect of Religiosity on Voter Turnout
Alan Gerber, Jonathan Gruber, and Daniel M. Hungerman #14303 (PE)
* Attitude-Dependent Altruism, Turnout and Voting
Julio J. Rotemberg #14302 (POL)
* Transfer Program Complexity and the Take Up of Social Benefits
Henrik Jacobsen Kleven and Wojciech Kopczuk #14301 (LS, PE)
* Business Volatility, Job Destruction, and Unemployment
Steven J. Davis, R. Jason Faberman, John Haltiwanger, Ron Jarmin, and Javier Miranda #14300 (EFG, LS)
* Power Laws in Economics and Finance
Xavier Gabaix #14299 (AP, EFG)
* The Cost of Property Rights: Establishing Institutions on the Philippine Frontier Under American Rule, 1898-1918
Noel Maurer and Lakshmi Iyer #14298 (DAE)
* School Nutrition Programs and the Incidence of Childhood Obesity
Daniel L. Millimet, Rusty Tchernis, and Muna Husain #14297 (HE)
* Measuring Welfare and the Effects of Regulation in a Government-Created Market: The Case of Medicare Part D Plans
Claudio Lucarelli, Jeffrey Prince, and Kosali Simon #14296 (HC)
* Current Account Sustainability and Relative Reliability
Stephanie E. Curcuru, Charles P. Thomas, and Francis E. Warnock #14295 (IFM)
* The Foreclosure-House Price Nexus: Lessons from the 2007-2008 Housing Turmoil
Charles W. Calomiris, Stanley D. Longhofer, and William Miles #14294 (EFG)
* Effects of Low-Skilled Immigration on U.S. Natives: Evidence from Hurricane Mitch
Adriana Kugler and Mutlu Yuksel #14293 (LS)
Quote:
I'm gonna just go ahead and assume so, based on what i've seen about them.
You'd be wrong, the research done and the papers published are indistinguishable from your classic academic economist.

Quote:
THE POINT i raised is that they'd be a lot more right-leaning that your broader group of academic economists.
There's absolutely zero empirical evidence in that except that you want to believe it.
 
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Kizzak
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Old
128 - 10-05-2008, 14:21
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Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby View Post
I take it that "utility" is codeword for "whimsical emotion"? It's like the utilitarian that tries to apologize for his idiotic ethical philosophy.
no

utility in the economic sense is theoretical value an individual gets from a given set of choices (Can be observed via the theory of revealed preferences). I really don't have time now to give you a beginner's course on neoclassical economics but maybe next week if you actually want some explanation.
 
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TseTse
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129 - 10-05-2008, 14:28
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Originally Posted by Kizzak View Post
You'd be wrong. Working papers from NBER since August 31st:

You'd be wrong, the research done and the papers published are indistinguishable from your classic academic economist.

There's absolutely zero empirical evidence in that except that you want to believe it.
How would you describe the NBER as a sub-group then?

My issue isnt their academic publications as much as their interest in APPLIED economics.

Are you suggesting that the AEA membership is equally focused on policy issues and applied economics? That even NBER members' academic publications (as opposed to their contract work) is more different in terms of focus on policy matters?

When i glance at the AEA annual meeting paper titles, i see what looks like at least 50% more academic theory stuff than APPLIED policy or business stuff. I'm just tryin to figure out what this NBER group is about.

"The NBER is committed to undertaking and disseminating unbiased economic research among public policymakers, business professionals, and the academic community."

These are policy oriented people moreso than the wider AEA seems to be. No?
 
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ZOD
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130 - 10-05-2008, 14:29
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Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby View Post
Nobody is suggesting he was an Austrian. He was far from it. He was of the Chicago school of economics, not the Austrian school of economics. He was a scholar at the University of Chicago for crying out loud.

But that's right up your alley. Like I said earlier, your beloved Reagan is of the Chicago school of economics.
Hey now don't get me wrong, I wasn't taking a shot at the Austrian school. Just pointing out some fundamental differences. But to say that Friedman was left leaning would be pretty laughable.
 
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Dumpy Dooby
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131 - 10-05-2008, 14:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzak View Post
no

utility in the economic sense is theoretical value an individual gets from a given set of choices (Can be observed via the theory of revealed preferences). I really don't have time now to give you a beginner's course on neoclassical economics but maybe next week if you actually want some explanation.
Is there actually an objective way of measuring the overall utility? I mean, supposing that Friedman is including the slaves in his analysis, and you are including them in yours, will both of you unequivocally reach precisely the same conclusion? Or could there be a slight difference between your measurements?

Basically, is the measurement itself arbitrary?
 
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Dumpy Dooby
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132 - 10-05-2008, 14:34
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Originally Posted by ZOD View Post
Hey now don't get me wrong, I wasn't taking a shot at the Austrian school. Just pointing out some fundamental differences. But to say that Friedman was left leaning would be pretty laughable.
That's why I also said that Chicago school of economics isn't left leaning (which would include Friedman).

TseTse thought I said that all neoclassical schools of thought are leftist because everything I say is over his head. Kizzak thought I said that because he didn't read the thread.
 
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Kizzak
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133 - 10-05-2008, 14:35
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Originally Posted by TseTse View Post
How would you describe the NBER as a sub-group then?

My issue isnt their academic publications as much as their interest in APPLIED economics.

Are you suggesting that the AEA membership is equally focused on policy issues and applied economics? That even NBER members' academic publications (as opposed to their contract work) is more different in terms of focus on policy matters?

When i glance at the AEA annual meeting paper titles, i see what looks like at least 50% more academic theory stuff than APPLIED policy or business stuff. I'm just tryin to figure out what this NBER group is about.

"The NBER is committed to undertaking and disseminating unbiased economic research among public policymakers, business professionals, and the academic community."

These are policy oriented people moreso than the wider AEA seems to be. No?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby View Post
Is there actually an objective way of measuring the overall utility? I mean, supposing that Friedman is including the slaves in his analysis, and you are including them in yours, will both of you unequivocally reach precisely the same conclusion? Or could there be a slight difference between your measurements?

Basically, is the measurement itself arbitrary?


I will bump this later tonight with answers to these two, I honestly don't have time right now though.
 
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Dumpy Dooby
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134 - 10-05-2008, 14:38
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Mine were yes-or-no questions.
 
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ZOD
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135 - 10-05-2008, 14:41
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Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby View Post
That's why I also said that Chicago school of economics isn't left leaning (which would include Friedman).

TseTse thought I said that all neoclassical schools of thought are leftist because everything I say is over his head. Kizzak thought I said that because he didn't read the thread.
I apologize, I did the same as Kizzak.
 
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TseTse
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136 - 10-05-2008, 14:44
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My god... here's with dumpy dip**** ACTUALLY has said... (stop apologizing to him just because he's back-pendaling)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby View Post
The Economist is famously left-leaning you moron.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby View Post
The Economist pushes neoclassical economic policies, which are all theories of left-leaning ideologies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby View Post
Chicago school of economics is neoclassical as well.
Stop bull****ting.

This idiot thinks everything left of Austrian-style laissez faire non-sense is "leftist" because he's just another Ron Paultard who spews what he's read on a few CATO and von Mises Institute web pages.
 
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Dumpy Dooby
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137 - 10-05-2008, 14:45
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Originally Posted by TseTse View Post
My god... here's with dumpy dip**** ACTUALLY has said... (stop apologizing to him just because he's back-pendaling)







Stop bull****ting.
The Economist pushes neoclassical economic policies that are all theories of left-leaning ideologies.


That better?



The fact that you quoted me saying that Chicago is neoclassical, but not left-leaning, pretty much shows that everything I say is over your head, or you're intentionally being dishonest.
 
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TseTse
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138 - 10-05-2008, 14:48
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Like i said, Dumpy... you lost all credibility when you called the Economist lefty...

Stop bull****ting.

You've obviously never even read
this well-regarded pro-market 150 year old publication.
 
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Dumpy Dooby
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139 - 10-05-2008, 14:51
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Originally Posted by TseTse View Post
This idiot thinks everything left of Austrian-style laissez faire non-sense is "leftist" because he's just another Ron Paultard who spews what he's read on a few CATO and von Mises Institute web pages.
Before it was "fringe" blogs. Now I'm being credited as reading CATO and Mises. Well that's a plus. Maybe one day you'll be humble enough to publicly acknowledge my intellectual superiority in its entirety.
 
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TseTse
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140 - 10-05-2008, 14:52
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Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby View Post
Before it was "fringe" blogs. Now I'm being credited as reading CATO and Mises. Well that's a plus. Maybe one day you'll be humble enough to publicly acknowledge my intellectual superiority in its entirety.
I consider von Mises and CATO about on par with blogs, actually.

Keep posting and making a fool out of yourself, cuz im gonna keep pointing out that all you've REALLY had to say is that The Economist is left-leaning.
 
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