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Kerosene31 12-02-2016 09:19
Quote:
Originally Posted by -SS- (Post 18683352)
Calm down slappy.

If you had thought about it before vomiting your bull**** at me, then you would have understood I am talking about fence sitters.

Its very obvious hard core leftwingers arent going to vote for trump.

:)
See how quickly you can end up on the wrong end of the echo chamber?

This is what is scary about Trump. You say one thing (that is common sense) negative about him and suddenly you're "one of them".

What do you mean he wasn't great in every second of every debate???

-SS- 12-02-2016 09:48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerosene31 (Post 18683356)
See how quickly you can end up on the wrong end of the echo chamber?

This is what is scary about Trump. You say one thing (that is common sense) negative about him and suddenly you're "one of them".

What do you mean he wasn't great in every second of every debate???
It was somewhat expected. Hell, I made Jomo squeak and he's pretty innocuous.

Thing is, I made it very clear I wasn't for trump in the HOF thread and only reiterating it here because of being asked.

Being a true independent means you can see both sides clearly and call it like you see it. I'm on the side that is for max liberties and freedoms (I give no ****s about your gender, your skin color, or any of that divisive identity politics garbage. Whats the content of your character? Are you trying to infringe on my Rights?). There isn't any doubt in my mind that trump is not going to infringe on my Rights more than Killary would have. That ****ing ***** would have definitely made us into a police state more than we are now. That can not stand imo.

Vir 12-02-2016 10:29
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09NWpTxIuHc

Ixiterra 12-02-2016 10:43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerosene31 (Post 18683356)
This is what is scary about Trump. You say one thing (that is common sense) negative about him and suddenly you're "one of them".
according to validuz

please keep that in mind

because, you know, he's the guy who raged about getting stuck on a hill in a video game. he doesn't post on this board without foaming at the mouth

ScooBySnaCk 12-02-2016 11:03
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerosene31 (Post 18683356)
See how quickly you can end up on the wrong end of the echo chamber?

This is what is scary about Trump. You say one thing (that is common sense) negative about him and suddenly you're "one of them".

What do you mean he wasn't great in every second of every debate???
What's scary about Trump? haha What about if you supported Trump? You were automatically a white hillbilly who want to implement the KKK, slaughter LGBTASEEBLASCTYZ, lynch anyone with a skin tone other than white, etc.

Give me a ****ing break

Goshin 12-02-2016 11:06
put on ur ****in armor and tank cops scoob

Kerosene31 12-02-2016 11:34
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScooByofTWFame (Post 18683395)
What's scary about Trump? haha What about if you supported Trump? You were automatically a white hillbilly who want to implement the KKK, slaughter LGBTASEEBLASCTYZ, lynch anyone with a skin tone other than white, etc.

Give me a ****ing break
The stupid straw man goes both ways. No, I don't generalize Trump supporters and I ask that people don't generalize people who don't like him.

During the primaries everyone said I was a Bernie supporter. Now I am supposedly a Hillary supporter. In reality I've never been Democrat and didn't vote Hillary. There's no freaking way I could vote for Hillary with what was proven fact against her obviously.

What scares me about Trump isn't racism (I'm a middle aged white guy lol). What scares me is I think he's a snake oil salesman who will say anything to "make the sale" then figure out things after. Maybe he'll be great. Who knows?

The funny thing is the die hard Trumpers are more easily "triggered" than any of the so-called SJWs. Their devotion is beyond fanatical and they flip out at the slightest negativity in the exact same way SJWs flip out.

The extreme left and right are surprisingly similar in many ways.

Ixiterra 12-02-2016 11:49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerosene31 (Post 18683411)
The stupid straw man goes both ways. No, I don't generalize Trump supporters and I ask that people don't generalize people who don't like him.
jfc dude if you're going to use the term "straw man" in every other post, learn wtf it means: Straw man - Wikipedia
it is not "saying something that might not be true about someone else"

Quote:
The funny thing is the die hard Trumpers are more easily "triggered" than any of the so-called SJWs. Their devotion is beyond fanatical and they flip out at the slightest negativity in the exact same way SJWs flip out.

The extreme left and right are surprisingly similar in many ways.
just like all of those videos of trump supporters out there attacking people right?

ScooBySnaCk 12-02-2016 11:51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerosene31 (Post 18683411)
The stupid straw man goes both ways. No, I don't generalize Trump supporters and I ask that people don't generalize people who don't like him.

During the primaries everyone said I was a Bernie supporter. Now I am supposedly a Hillary supporter. In reality I've never been Democrat and didn't vote Hillary. There's no freaking way I could vote for Hillary with what was proven fact against her obviously.

What scares me about Trump isn't racism (I'm a middle aged white guy lol). What scares me is I think he's a snake oil salesman who will say anything to "make the sale" then figure out things after. Maybe he'll be great. Who knows?

The funny thing is the die hard Trumpers are more easily "triggered" than any of the so-called SJWs. Their devotion is beyond fanatical and they flip out at the slightest negativity in the exact same way SJWs flip out.

The extreme left and right are surprisingly similar in many ways.
Whats the basis of your "fears"? I see Trump getting people in the right positions to make a difference. With any president we can hope for 2-3 major issues be addressed thanks to a **** bag money fueled congress. Obama of course rammed out deficit up to now 20 Trillion all the time blaming Bush and increasing racial hatred. That to you is more acceptable than what Trump is proposing to do?

Kerosene31 12-02-2016 11:57
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScooByofTWFame (Post 18683416)
Whats the basis of your "fears"? I see Trump getting people in the right positions to make a difference. With any president we can hope for 2-3 major issues be addressed thanks to a **** bag money fueled congress. Obama of course rammed out deficit up to now 20 Trillion all the time blaming Bush and increasing racial hatred. That to you is more acceptable than what Trump is proposing to do?
I fear that Trump's tax plan is a big tax cut for the very rich. It smells a lot to me like supply side economics, which is what rich white people sell to dumb poor white people. In "growing the economy" it needs to be done with the middle class, not around it.

-SS- 12-02-2016 12:14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerosene31 (Post 18683417)
I fear that Trump's tax plan is a big tax cut for the very rich. It smells a lot to me like supply side economics, which is what rich white people sell to dumb poor white people. In "growing the economy" it needs to be done with the middle class, not around it.
Here's where we part ways.

The wealthy pay the overwhelming bulk of taxes already. That's indisputable. Even if they get a cut (which appears unlikely), thats a good thing. 1. they get to keep more of their property; 2. they invest, which generates jobs. Smart investment grows jobs, not wealth redistribution.

So hearing about people paying their fair share is patently ridiculous in my eyes. The poor dont pay **** and coming soon, you will see people hauling ass to tax preparers to get their EIC, aka money they didnt pay in.

Catch phrases of "trickle down economics" and the like... well, that dog just dont hunt. Real trickle down economics comes in the form of wealth redistribution via theft backed by the barrel of a gun and prison. It's also socially immoral: hand outs rob people of their ability to provide for themselves and make them dependent on the State.

Fool 12-02-2016 12:22
The KKK has an estimated 5,000 members in the entire country. How they became culturally relevant this election is staggeringly stupid.

ScooBySnaCk 12-02-2016 12:27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fool (Post 18683429)
The KKK has an estimated 5,000 members in the entire country. How they became culturally relevant this election is staggeringly stupid.
Not to mention the LGBTQRFTZ and the amount of rhetoric and political sway they have.

Fool 12-02-2016 12:27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerosene31 (Post 18683417)
I fear that Trump's tax plan is a big tax cut for the very rich. It smells a lot to me like supply side economics, which is what rich white people sell to dumb poor white people. In "growing the economy" it needs to be done with the middle class, not around it.
Poor white people in general do not care about becoming rich, or whether the rich get richer. They want a ****ing job. They want food on their tables, and for their kids to go to school. $700 per job a year in tax credits to keep 1,000 jobs in America is pretty damn good. 1,000 jobs earning an average of $30 an hour, over 2080 hours a year. That's $62,400,000 in taxable income. Indiana alone will get $2,059,200 from their state taxes. The state makes more money, the nation makes more money, and people have jobs. In what universe is that a bad thing?

ScooBySnaCk 12-02-2016 12:34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerosene31 (Post 18683417)
I fear that Trump's tax plan is a big tax cut for the very rich. It smells a lot to me like supply side economics, which is what rich white people sell to dumb poor white people. In "growing the economy" it needs to be done with the middle class, not around it.
Robin Hood economics and job growth in the US do not mix. The fact we have a sliding scale of taxes is retarded. A flat tax with no loop holes would generate far more revenue while slashing that ****bag IRS unit out.
Summary of the Latest Federal Income Tax Data, 2015 Update | Tax Foundation

First off you can't have a sustained welfare state that liberals want. Big Government, Big taxes, Big Regulations = National Jobs decrease.

Bernie was a ****ing looney. How do you expect all these "free" programs to work when the government can't operate within a budget now? Oh yeah more taxes..thats the answer! Think about how it's spent versus why they are not collecting more.

Ixiterra 12-02-2016 12:42
Quote:
Originally Posted by -SS- (Post 18683425)
The wealthy pay the overwhelming bulk of taxes already. That's indisputable. Even if they get a cut (which appears unlikely), thats a good thing. 1. they get to keep more of their property; 2. they invest, which generates jobs. Smart investment grows jobs, not wealth redistribution.
Invest in what? The stock market? Creating jobs by trading shares of companies that are already funded? New jobs are derived primarily from new businesses which, by and large, get their startup capital by "thin air" money created by banks on the backing of piddly checking account balances of the middle class.

If an existing business was in the position to expand, a tax cut won't change that. A tax cut primarily directed at the wealthy is not going to increase demand for many products. What it will do is enrich the people at the top of corporations that have been making it the core policy of business to solely enrich the shareholders already. Why would they try to expand a company if it wasn't already in a position to be expanded? What realistic economic motivation is there? "oh we have more money let's spend it"?

JoMo 12-02-2016 12:54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixiterra (Post 18683439)
Invest in what? The stock market? Creating jobs by trading shares of companies that are already funded? New jobs are derived primarily from new businesses which, by and large, get their startup capital by "thin air" money created by banks on the backing of piddly checking account balances of the middle class.

If an existing business was in the position to expand, a tax cut won't change that. A tax cut primarily directed at the wealthy is not going to increase demand for many products. What it will do is enrich the people at the top of corporations that have been making it the core policy of business to solely enrich the shareholders already. Why would they try to expand a company if it wasn't already in a position to be expanded? What realistic economic motivation is there? "oh we have more money let's spend it"?
The goal is to make more money. If you can make more money by investing in expanding your business, you would do it. Samsung, for instance, could make all the money it ever 'needs' by making TV's only.. However, they make other products as well, to fill the markets and make even more money.

However, Instead of giving these companies a straight up tax cut, there needs to be an incentive for them to create jobs in the US.

Phyzx 12-02-2016 12:55
HUUUGE NEVADA VOTER FRAUD UNCOVERED? WORSE THAN ACORN | NEWSMAXTV LAS VEGAS

"Edward Snowden, Willie Nelson, Waylon Jennings and dozens of movie stars were registered to vote in District 15 according to Mr. Vaughan. Mr. Vaughan tested a sample of 200 people of the 9,200 return mail and found that 185 of those had indeed voted."

-SS- 12-02-2016 12:58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixiterra (Post 18683439)
Invest in what? The stock market? Creating jobs by trading shares of companies that are already funded? New jobs are derived primarily from new businesses which, by and large, get their startup capital by "thin air" money created by banks on the backing of piddly checking account balances of the middle class.

If an existing business was in the position to expand, a tax cut won't change that. A tax cut primarily directed at the wealthy is not going to increase demand for many products. What it will do is enrich the people at the top of corporations that have been making it the core policy of business to solely enrich the shareholders already. Why would they try to expand a company if it wasn't already in a position to be expanded? What realistic economic motivation is there? "oh we have more money let's spend it"?
You really should have read fool's post before posting yourself. It's apparent you do not run a business or have no understanding of economics.

Hint: a tax cut increases disposable income, or in the case of a business, operating capital. disposable income / operating capital is used in either starting new business ventures or expanding existing ones. want to know why businesses cutback after the passage of owebamacare?

because it was in effect, a tax.

would you like to know more: Operating Capital • The Strategic CFO

phaytal 12-02-2016 13:02
NEWSMAXTV seems like an extremely reputable and reliable news outlet.

Ixiterra 12-02-2016 13:07
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoMo (Post 18683443)
The goal is to make more money. If you can make more money by investing in expanding your business, you would do it. Samsung, for instance, could make all the money it ever 'needs' by making TV's only.. However, they make other products as well, to fill the markets and make even more money.
The problem is demand which is what the middle/poor class provides... assuming they have the money to do so. Creating a new product doesn't create demand unless it is something technologically innovative or whatever. It might squeeze out another company, but it does not create new demand just because it exists. Rich people don't create jobs, the economy does, and for that to happen the wealth needs to be somewhat reasonably distributed.

Instead, we have lawmakers in the pockets of the wealthy and creating laws protecting them or removing laws protecting everyone else have eroded the middle class and led to stark decreases in middle class ownership of the economy. A yyuuge tax cut isn't going to change that trend.

Vir 12-02-2016 13:10
3.5 million for 1 net vote for Hillary so far in the recount. She's on her way

absent 12-02-2016 13:12
You can't have a healthy middle class society if you don't heavily limit the capital accumulation of individuals (or corporations etc), since the rich will simply buy out the system. The best setup is to tax companies 80% of their net income, then re-distribute it back to them based on petitions for development.

Ixiterra 12-02-2016 13:14
Quote:
Originally Posted by -SS- (Post 18683447)
You really should have read fool's post before posting yourself. It's apparent you do not run a business or have no understanding of economics.

Hint: a tax cut increases disposable income, or in the case of a business, operating capital. disposable income / operating capital is used in either starting new business ventures or expanding existing ones. want to know why businesses cutback after the passage of owebamacare?

because it was in effect, a tax.

would you like to know more: Operating Capital • The Strategic CFO
fool's post that has absolutely nothing to do with running a business?
As I expanded on in my response to Jomo, show me how giving tax cuts to the wealthy creates demand. If there is no demand, there is no need to expand, and the money goes nowhere. You can't expand just for the sake of expansion.

NightTrain 12-02-2016 13:36
Quote:
Originally Posted by phaytal (Post 18683449)
NEWSMAXTV seems like an extremely reputable and reliable news outlet.
They must not have been invited to Hillary's private dinner

Phyzx 12-02-2016 13:44
Quote:
Originally Posted by phaytal (Post 18683449)
NEWSMAXTV seems like an extremely reputable and reliable news outlet.
I checked the list of Russian Propaganda sites, and it wasn't on there.

Perhaps if you overlooked the site, and watched the video, you could comment on CONTENT and not the PROVIDER.

JoMo 12-02-2016 13:57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixiterra (Post 18683451)
The problem is demand which is what the middle/poor class provides... assuming they have the money to do so. Creating a new product doesn't create demand unless it is something technologically innovative or whatever. It might squeeze out another company, but it does not create new demand just because it exists. Rich people don't create jobs, the economy does, and for that to happen the wealth needs to be somewhat reasonably distributed.

Instead, we have lawmakers in the pockets of the wealthy and creating laws protecting them or removing laws protecting everyone else have eroded the middle class and led to stark decreases in middle class ownership of the economy. A yyuuge tax cut isn't going to change that trend.
You failed to quote:
"However, Instead of giving these companies a straight up tax cut, there needs to be an incentive for them to create jobs in the US."

You're also talking about the fallacy that somehow 'wealth' is a finite commodity and that there's only so much 'wealth' to go around. We live in an era of fiat currency with quantitative easing. An era in which the stock market jumps on bad economic news because it means interest rates will stay low and QE will continue.

Personally, I think the best approach is to give businesses incentives for expanding and hiring. I just don't know about the method of doing so that's fair and that won't be exploited.

Ixiterra 12-02-2016 14:16
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoMo (Post 18683470)
You're also talking about the fallacy that somehow 'wealth' is a finite commodity and that there's only so much 'wealth' to go around.
This is a ridiculous statement. Resources are finite, money is just the lubricant to facilitate moving them around.

Quote:
Personally, I think the best approach is to give businesses incentives for expanding and hiring. I just don't know about the method of doing so that's fair and that won't be exploited.
Businesses will expand and hire if there is demand to do so, any other reason for doing so will eventually fail. Unless you want to keep up some kind of tax credit going forever. Businesses don't and shouldn't need an artificial reason for expanding, otherwise you are setting up another economic bubble. And if they are ready and able to expand, banks will be willing to lend them money if necessary, no government intervention required.

Kerosene31 12-02-2016 14:17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixiterra (Post 18683451)
The problem is demand which is what the middle/poor class provides...
Boom, that's it.

Carrier's parent company made $7.6 billion dollars. This isn't about class war or liberal whining. The middle class keeps shrinking and that's bad for everyone long term.

There's nothing wrong with them making money, but don't buy the line of BS saying they need money to expand. That's just plain and simple bull****.

Corporations are supposed to make money, the problem is they focus on the short term.

MadHatSam 12-02-2016 14:23
Is there some dearth of wealth right now?

Isn't there some 2 trillion dollars floating around in off shore banks?

At what point does the incentive to invest that out weight the interest earned? Negative tax rates?

Kerosene31 12-02-2016 14:54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixiterra (Post 18683414)
jfc dude if you're going to use the term "straw man" in every other post, learn wtf it means: Straw man - Wikipedia
it is not "saying something that might not be true about someone else"
I don't think you know what a straw man is.

A straw man argument is looking at Trump's economy and saying well you support his economic policies so you are a racist. Taking someone's argument and twisting it.

dubsack 12-02-2016 15:04
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerosene31 (Post 18683500)
I don't think you know what a straw man is.

A straw man argument is looking at Trump's economy and saying well you support his economic policies so you are a racist. Taking someone's argument and twisting it.
Uh...

ScooBySnaCk 12-02-2016 15:07
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phyzx (Post 18683446)
HUUUGE NEVADA VOTER FRAUD UNCOVERED? WORSE THAN ACORN | NEWSMAXTV LAS VEGAS

"Edward Snowden, Willie Nelson, Waylon Jennings and dozens of movie stars were registered to vote in District 15 according to Mr. Vaughan. Mr. Vaughan tested a sample of 200 people of the 9,200 return mail and found that 185 of those had indeed voted."
I highly suspected Harry Reid won his last election by fraud. He strong-armed the Unions in Clark County and people were TOLD they had to go out and vote for Reid. That ****bag should have been gone long ago

Ixiterra 12-02-2016 15:10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerosene31 (Post 18683500)
I don't think you know what a straw man is.

A straw man argument is looking at Trump's economy and saying well you support his economic policies so you are a racist. Taking someone's argument and twisting it.
good god no it is not. It is arguing against something different from what the other person actually argued because you feel you can attack it better that way. Calling someone a racist because they support trump's policies is an ad hominem (attacking the person).

Captain Tele 12-02-2016 15:36
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defau...2_insane_0.jpg

cael 12-02-2016 15:40
we'll keep 43% of pelosi and send the rest to mexico for yuge tax breaks

Captain Tele 12-02-2016 15:51
Quote:
Originally Posted by -SS- (Post 18683137)
I watched all of the debates and was aggravated by each of his performances. He is a terrible speaker, much like W. This man has an impressive education yet he couldnt bring it to bear against such an easy dip**** in Killary when it came to articulating his positions and dismantling her bull****.

Plus, his arrogance. Its not an entitled, smug arrogance like owebama, but more of 'I am the king' arrogance, because he is a billionaire. We get that from you constantly reminding people you built things and how much it's worth, so work on being more humble that you can relate to your common American. Throw in the tweeting bull****... c'mon... you're ****ing 70 years old. Grow up. I get some of it is to control the news cycle, knowing full well the media is against you and will get them spun up, but use good adjudication... think tactical and strategic instead of just vomiting. He's a very flawed man, but I dont doubt his love for this country and that goes a long way with me.

So will he be good for America? Yeah, I think so. As long as he works on rebuilding from the devastation of 8 years of craptacular democratic policies (aka: statism), I can live with it.
You and Data have a spot on analysis about Trump and spot on reflect my own views as well.

but if there has to be a giant orange narcissistic baby in the white house

he is the flavor I want and need right now

Twitter Threatens Trump Ban Over "Harassment And Hateful Conduct"

http://www.joemygod.com/wp-content/u...trumptrain.jpg

the way he trolls, the way he makes rage tears happen, i have never been more proud of a POTUS elect like I am this man. He could only be bested by some of our TW own and pepe the comic insult frog.

Fool 12-02-2016 15:52
When he's President he can technically text all of our phones anytime he wants.

Captain Tele 12-02-2016 15:57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerdoggie (Post 18683318)
I wonder what old Mad Dog thinks of having all these "klingers" in the military now.

https://i.sli.mg/J6sR3g.jpg
can't tell if they are backstage at lilith fair waiting for ellen disengeneres to go on stage to dance with sarah mcLachlan.......or at the pentagon

Captain Tele 12-02-2016 16:07
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScooByofTWFame (Post 18683416)
Whats the basis of your "fears"? I see Trump getting people in the right positions to make a difference. With any president we can hope for 2-3 major issues be addressed thanks to a **** bag money fueled congress. Obama of course rammed out deficit up to now 20 Trillion all the time blaming Bush and increasing racial hatred. That to you is more acceptable than what Trump is proposing to do?
i have some fears tbh

https://pics.onsizzle.com/the-march-...an-2739421.png

what if his flag burning comments and celebratory praise of government response to Tienanmen square were not trolling but sincere.

what if he is just another right foot continuation of the graphic depicted above?

another good cop, bad cop, presidential flop, that we have all become accustomed to as we continue our march toward totalitarianism *sponsored by Carl's Jr*

I really don't want to believe that we got conned (again). That he isn't conservative hope and change......since owebama's dope for the mentally deranged didn't pan out.

I really hope that Rmoney doesn't end up his SoS......that all this Jamie Dimon talk for US Treasurer (or even white house dog groomer) is nothing but hot air.

I can't handle watching us go further down the sink. Watching the country go down the drain instead of the swamp congress critters we were all promised.

Those are my fears and I really hope they forever remain unfounded.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-UuZm8p0sZ...s640/rrc_3.jpg


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