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-   -   [(#)SOCCER] 2009-2010 Season Thread (https://www.tribalwar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=587032)

HomeSlice 06-30-2009 11:03

I'm just waiting for the Tampa Bay Rowdies to get started here in FL. Can't wait for USL-1 Action.

Esteban_Villa 06-30-2009 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzak (Post 14683587)
Things aren't going to get magically better while people sit on the sidelines as euro-snobs.

If you want to get the standard of the league improved, then you need to actually do something to help improve it. The fewer people watching, the less impetus there is to attempt to improve because the available market is viewed to be much smaller.

We do go to games because well, everything is always better in person.

But even then, we go to an extent because tickets are cheap and we're all very much interested. I couldn't expect casual fans of soccer to do what we do.

Being located in Albany NY though means we have to travel, and for a few hours, so we can't do it often.

The quality of the teams needs to come up and some more drama needs to be thrown in. Relegation/Promotion will do that. Transfers need to become Europeanized.

Headline grabbers like David Beckham might get MLS attention, but overall that did nothing for the league. If we could get some good, decent players to come over here and actually want to play, things would get better. I feel as if the current generation of soccer players say age 12-22 though will greatly improve the US's play, given that better competition at younger ages means everyone gets better.

Playalistic 06-30-2009 11:29

O Hi Guyz. How bout that Serie A?

^i^Njal 06-30-2009 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playalistic (Post 14683675)
O Hi Guyz. How bout that Serie A?

It's currently on a down cycle...

Playalistic 06-30-2009 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ^i^Njal (Post 14683680)
It's currently on a down cycle...


True story. So many good players leaving, it seems like the only team actually bringing players in is Juve. AC Milan is on rebuilding mode, and Inter seems to not care about Zlatan anymore.
Out: Kaka, Adriano, Mellberg, more to come...
In: Diego, Diego Milito, Cannavaro (ancient)

Infinite 06-30-2009 12:07

**** italy and their sham of a league

groundzero 06-30-2009 12:10

I will be attending AC Milan vs Inter at Gillette in Foxborough MA

groundzero 06-30-2009 12:11

I will also have media passes and be in the locker room and on the field.

Anyone else going out to that game?

Playalistic 06-30-2009 12:12

Yes if I'm still here. It's possible I'll be going back down to Baltimore, in which case I'll be at that game.

Shag 06-30-2009 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by groundzero (Post 14683769)
I will also have media passes and be in the locker room and on the field.

Anyone else going out to that game?

Hook me up with a media pass and I'll go :)

Glare 06-30-2009 14:58

media passes to meet a bunch of greasballs going "EH" and doing sign language

no thanks

Diablo Escobar 06-30-2009 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by groundzero (Post 14683769)
I will also have media passes and be in the locker room and on the field.

Anyone else going out to that game?

I'd like to go if you're giving me a media pass

otherwise i'd still like to go but don't have many soccer loving friends

Diablo Escobar 06-30-2009 15:58

in re: MLS, what's strange is that I ultimately do watch quite a bit of the games, and the overlapping runs and possession holds do happen regularly in the MLS, so it isn't like US Players just aren't trained to do it, it's just when our NT gets on the stage they don't do it.

Presumably this is a trust issue, nobody really trusts anyone outside of Donovan to do anything worthwhile with the ball so they try to make hero plays all the time, but it's sort of strange to see our guys go soccer stupid on the national stage and then watch MLS games and see guys playing the right way

Shopper47 06-30-2009 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzak (Post 14683561)
also, as far as I'm concerned; canada can take what we grant them from our league structure or they can **** off and build their own league.

We've got enough trouble trying to fit in enough of the American teams vying for a MLS spot without Canada trying to bird dog all the remaining slots.

It's completely silly to think that an entire region of the country will be locked out of the top level of the American league because a bunch of canadian teams can't put together their own league.

Hah such ignorance. How could you possibly look at a city like St Louis and try to consider it before a city like Toronto? Attitudes like this are what hamper the MLS; you need to get over it being a purely "American" league and make it a "North American" league like every other league in North America.

People *****ed and moaned about Toronto getting a team (and still do) and they are the most profitable and popular team in MLS's history, and are also in 2nd place right now. The entire reason Seattle is so successful is because of their FO's understanding and observation of Toronto and implementing a similar style.

Montreal and Vancouver are awesome teams. They regularly and routinely **** and pillage their American counterparts and their Voyageur Cup showings prove that they are MLS contenders. Plus they have huge pre-existing markets and fanbases, and very shortly both will have large Soccer Specific Stadiums available to them.

Honestly, who the **** wants a second-tier, second-rate team that doesn't have the resources simply because it is American? That is retarded; get with the times.

Eggi 06-30-2009 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icey (Post 14683604)
They also benefited from some very savvy marketing by the ownership and the fact that the Sonics got shipped off to OKC and the metro area was left with just the Seahawks and Mariners.

which are both terrible. Seattle is in sports purgatory right now, so it was the perfect time to have an MLS expansion begin in Seattle. Hopefully attendance will stay up next year, and the year after even if our team is mediocre. Games are a blast in person :bigthumb: MLS play is still suspect, but hopefully it continue to improve over the next decade or so.

Kizzak 06-30-2009 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joemomma5000 (Post 14684917)
Hah such ignorance. How could you possibly look at a city like St Louis and try to consider it before a city like Toronto? Attitudes like this are what hamper the MLS; you need to get over it being a purely "American" league and make it a "North American" league like every other league in North America.

'every other sports league' in the US you mean.

I don't see Mexico, Costa Rica, or any other soccer league system in North America doing this.


As for it being a purely American league, unlike every other sport with professional leagues in the US, there's a higher authority imposing regulations on the league structure. One of those regulations makes it extremely highly unlikely we will be allowed to pass 20 teams whereas other leagues are able to easily expand to 32 or more teams.

At the end of the day, this is an American league according to FIFA and that's all that matters. Therefore, when it comes push-to-shove - Canada is allowed to have it's own league, I'd rather see American cities get a chance than stifle American growth in the sport because Canada can't get it's act together and put together a decent league.

Quote:

People *****ed and moaned about Toronto getting a team (and still do) and they are the most profitable and popular team in MLS's history, and are also in 2nd place right now. The entire reason Seattle is so successful is because of their FO's understanding and observation of Toronto and implementing a similar style.
Toronto isn't in 2nd place and Seattle didn't 'implement a similar style'.

Quote:

Montreal and Vancouver are awesome teams. They regularly and routinely **** and pillage their American counterparts and their Voyageur Cup showings prove that they are MLS contenders. Plus they have huge pre-existing markets and fanbases, and very shortly both will have large Soccer Specific Stadiums available to them.
Vancouver's 'pre-existing market and fanbase' is no larger than the average USL market or fanbase.
Quote:

Honestly, who the **** wants a second-tier, second-rate team that doesn't have the resources simply because it is American? That is retarded; get with the times.
As for second-tier, second-rate team... that's been a generous description of Toronto FC the last two years.

There is still a fairly good chance they don't make the playoffs this year either despite MLS' very generous playoff system.

They are 3rd out of 7 in their division because of the number of games they've played:
Chicago is 2 points off with two games in hand
KC is 3 points off with two games in hand
NE Revs are 6 points off with four games in hand

Additionally, teams on the other division can nab one or both wild card spots:
RSL is 3 points off with a game in hand (much better gd)
LAG are 4 points off with a game in hand

That is to say that Toronto still could easily finish 13th out of 15 and




RE: resources, teams are run on a tight salary cap so resources don't really matter

Yawnfest 06-30-2009 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joemomma5000 (Post 14684917)
Hah such ignorance. How could you possibly look at a city like St Louis and try to consider it before a city like Toronto? Attitudes like this are what hamper the MLS; you need to get over it being a purely "American" league and make it a "North American" league like every other league in North America.

People *****ed and moaned about Toronto getting a team (and still do) and they are the most profitable and popular team in MLS's history, and are also in 2nd place right now. The entire reason Seattle is so successful is because of their FO's understanding and observation of Toronto and implementing a similar style.

Montreal and Vancouver are awesome teams. They regularly and routinely **** and pillage their American counterparts and their Voyageur Cup showings prove that they are MLS contenders. Plus they have huge pre-existing markets and fanbases, and very shortly both will have large Soccer Specific Stadiums available to them.

Honestly, who the **** wants a second-tier, second-rate team that doesn't have the resources simply because it is American? That is retarded; get with the times.

Agreed. Stop giving teams to places just because you want to reach that geographical part of the US or you want some form of Canada/US balance. The next 3 places to bring a team are complete no brainers: Montreal, Vancouver, and Portland. All of them have really strong fan bases that will pack the stadiums and we'd get the extra drama of a Northwest 3-way rivalry. The most fun I've had at soccer matches was watching the Portland Timbers play. Best fans ever.

Kizzak 06-30-2009 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawnfest (Post 14685018)
Agreed. Stop giving teams to places just because you want to reach that geographical part of the US or you want some form of Canada/US balance. The next 3 places to bring a team are complete no brainers: Montreal, Vancouver, and Portland. All of them have really strong fan bases that will pack the stadiums and we'd get the extra drama of a Northwest 3-way rivalry. The most fun I've had at soccer matches was watching the Portland Timbers play. Best fans ever.

Portland was always a no brainer and I can see letting in Montreal because they have been consistently at the top of USL attendance tables for years.


If we are using existing fan-base as a chief criteria, I don't see why Vancouver gets in over Rochester nor do I see the reason Toronto even got a MLS spot in the first place.

confidential 06-30-2009 18:38

not a fan of the Italians. Serie A deserves to suck for the next few years after all the match fixing bull****

Shopper47 06-30-2009 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzak (Post 14684980)
'every other sports league' in the US you mean.

I don't see Mexico, Costa Rica, or any other soccer league system in North America doing this.


As for it being a purely American league, unlike every other sport with professional leagues in the US, there's a higher authority imposing regulations on the league structure. One of those regulations makes it extremely highly unlikely we will be allowed to pass 20 teams whereas other leagues are able to easily expand to 32 or more teams.

At the end of the day, this is an American league according to FIFA and that's all that matters. Therefore, when it comes push-to-shove - Canada is allowed to have it's own league, I'd rather see American cities get a chance than stifle American growth in the sport because Canada can't get it's act together and put together a decent league.


Toronto isn't in 2nd place and Seattle didn't 'implement a similar style'.



Vancouver's 'pre-existing market and fanbase' is no larger than the average USL market or fanbase.


As for second-tier, second-rate team... that's been a generous description of Toronto FC the last two years.

There is still a fairly good chance they don't make the playoffs this year either despite MLS' very generous playoff system.

They are 3rd out of 7 in their division because of the number of games they've played:
Chicago is 2 points off with two games in hand
KC is 3 points off with two games in hand
NE Revs are 6 points off with four games in hand

Additionally, teams on the other division can nab one or both wild card spots:
RSL is 3 points off with a game in hand (much better gd)
LAG are 4 points off with a game in hand

That is to say that Toronto still could easily finish 13th out of 15 and




RE: resources, teams are run on a tight salary cap so resources don't really matter

So you would rather have teams with a less attractive offer get a team because they are American, than to have the best teams possible in the league? How does that help anything?

It just looks like we want different things; I want the best possible soccer and the best possible exposure of the sport in North America; you want America to have it's own world-calibre league. Seeing as there isn't a single team between us worth a **** internationally, I think pooling our resources is a good thing. Besides; like it or not, Toronto introduced millions to the MLS, and Vancouver/Montreal will do the same.

As for Seattle, saying that they didn't learn from Toronto is laughable. And I am ignoring obvious things like physically seeing their management team (including Carey) at BMO field several times last year. Maybe they just happened to be in the same place at the same time! (This isn't to knock Seattle in any way though; I love that there is another team that can actually sell tickets and have decent fans).

Toronto is in third, I forgot about their horrible bed-****ting the other night. My bad.


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