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The Pumpkin King 10-17-2020 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amadeus (Post 19246749)
If these discussions are a waste of time, it's because people are unwilling to admit that they have no good reason to believe the things they believe, and especially have no good reason to tell others that they should believe the same things.

Yes, it would be masochistic of you to try to answer OP's question, because you know you don't have a convincing answer. So here you are, trying to claim the moral high ground against strawmen, which ironically makes you look even more intellectually dishonest than if you actually tried to justify your beliefs with the usual intellectually dishonest methods.

GG, thanks for your ultimate surrender.

Thank you for proving my entire point with a textbook example of what I was describing...

In general, people see these discussions as game to be "won" or "lost."

They are more interested in "winning" than actually learning anything or learning about the opposing party's point of view. In this case, victory is even declared in full before any discussion has actually even taken place. From a technical stand-point, the first reply is the fastest a discussion can possibly end and it is not possible for an individual to be any more closed off than that.

People seeking knowledge usually ask a lot of questions and make far less statements. In this case we can see Amadeus already going on the offense with typical "go to" canned attacks that they use over and over again like "intellectually insincere" in the attempt to make me look irreputable, provoke me to an emotional response, etc.. Also canned "strawmen" stuff that would suggest that the closed-off people I described do not exist, when everyone knows that they do.

I will further highlight my main point by asking everyone some questions:

"In the above post, does Amadeus seem like the type of individual that is open towards intellectual discussion, seeking new knowledge, asking questions, and is interested in taking in new ideas that may totally change his worldview?"

"Based on the above post, would you spend time engaging with Amadeus on the topic of religion with the sincere belief that you could change his mind or heavily influence his belief system while doing so?"

Most people in the world approach this topic of discussion like Amadeus just did, hence why it is a giant waste of time in most cases. A person as closed off as him, will not even consider any viable evidence towards much of anything, because they already know that they have already won the game to the point of the opposing party having given their "ultimate surrender". If the opposing party has already surrendered, they are no longer in a position to provide new information that would show any insight on any truth.

Therefore Amadeus's post translates as "I already know more than you. There is nothing that you can teach me." Which is how he truly feels.

In general, most people feel this way...

I will be falsely accused of having "no evidence" or "no argument" and that's fine by me. I'm secure in what I know enough to accept that false accusation and how it may cause me to appear to others, as I do not value "winning." Being falsely accused is far preferable to wasting hours of my time on someone that has already openly declared themselves entirely closed-off.

Amadeus 10-17-2020 13:45

I have heard literally hundreds of people try to explain why they hold whatever religious beliefs they hold, and not one of them had a good reason for it. I speak from experience.

But if you want to take a shot at being the one to buck that trend, be my guest. Tell us what you believe and why, I'd genuinely love to hear it.

LawnDart 10-17-2020 14:11

Then you are a closed minded idiot who only spoke to double digit IQ people such as yourself.

amRam 10-17-2020 14:12

Guys nobody has a good enough reason to explain beliefs ingrained in humans for hundreds of thousands of years , amadeus says so. He knows everything there is to know about the topic as you can tell.

Amadeus 10-17-2020 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by LawnDart (Post 19247609)
Then you are a closed minded idiot who only spoke to double digit IQ people such as yourself.

It's an open invitation. Go on, let's hear what you got.

amRam 10-17-2020 14:18

Go on boys, take 3 minutes to type a few sentences explaining the extremely simple and well understood system of higher belief and human consciousness. Ez peazy.

The Pumpkin King 10-17-2020 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amadeus (Post 19247602)
I have heard literally hundreds of people try to explain why they hold whatever religious beliefs they hold, and not one of them had a good reason for it. I speak from experience.

That is exactly what a close-minded person would say.

Most people have good reasons to believe the things they do, regardless of their worldview.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amadeus (Post 19247602)
But if you want to take a shot at being the one to buck that trend, be my guest. Tell us what you believe and why, I'd genuinely love to hear it.

You already declared it GG and I have apparently give you my "ultimate surrender."

I would never assume you were telling lies about that, so why would you invite someone into a futile interaction?

Can you explain your genuine interest?

Amadeus 10-17-2020 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pumpkin King (Post 19247635)
That is exactly what a close-minded person would say.

:lolwut:

So if a lot of people tell you something that you know to be wrong, and you still don't believe it, that makes you close-minded?

If you make a tour of indigenous hut-dwelling tribes, and listen to hundreds of people telling you that illnesses are caused by bad spirits that need to be chased away with drums and incense, are you close-minded for not believing them?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pumpkin King (Post 19247635)
Most people have good reasons to believe the things they do, regardless of their worldview.

Not when it comes to religious belief, as evidenced by the fact that the methods we know to be reliable for determining truth consistently fail to confirm such beliefs.

Feel free to put yours to the test though.


Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pumpkin King (Post 19247635)
You already declared it GG and I have apparently give you my "ultimate surrender."

I would never assume you were telling lies about that, so why would you invite someone into a futile interaction?

Can you explain your genuine interest?

I care about truth. If you have some to share, I'd love to hear it.

Prove that I was wrong to call GG by engaging in an intellectually honest conversation about what your religious beliefs are and why you hold them.

The truth has nothing to fear from investigation, but anyone can make up a false claim and be all "nah man you're just close-minded" when people challenge it.

amRam 10-17-2020 16:10

It's like asking for a "reason" why you enjoy a particular piece of art or why a poem or play illicits a strong emotional response. What's the "reason" all humans are drawn to the same archetypes in stories and why are these stories as old as mankind? Go on just casually type out the reason... be sure to include empirical evidence and perhaps a PDF or 3D model of your consciousness.

If someone here could so easily provide you with a reason why they believe in higher power, like all humans before them for millennia, the idea would've been dead long ago.

Mr Jimmy Pop 10-17-2020 16:15

It be like me trying to explain to you why I like Blink 182. Even I donít understand why I like that cheesy band.


But I do.

lemontw 10-17-2020 16:19

I can explain that. You like simple things. The end.

amRam 10-17-2020 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemontw (Post 19247647)
I can explain that. You like simple things. The end.

Cheesy simpleton lulz

Amadeus 10-17-2020 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by amRam (Post 19247643)
It's like asking for a "reason" why you enjoy a particular piece of art or why a poem or play illicits a strong emotional response. What's the "reason" all humans are drawn to the same archetypes in stories and why are these stories as old as mankind? Go on just casually type out the reason... be sure to include empirical evidence and perhaps a PDF or 3D model of your consciousness.

If someone here could so easily provide you with a reason why they believe in higher power, like all humans before them for millennia, the idea would've been dead long ago.

You're talking about opinions. Religious beliefs are not opinions, they are statements about reality. As such, they are subject to investigation.

lemontw 10-17-2020 16:22

an emotional response to a piece of art is an opinion? ur a ****ing robot

:lolque:

amRam 10-17-2020 16:28

What a ****ing turd...holy ****.

Mr Jimmy Pop 10-17-2020 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemontw (Post 19247647)
I can explain that. You like simple things. The end.

I do, I certainly do.

Amadeus 10-17-2020 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemontw (Post 19247653)
an emotional response to a piece of art is an opinion? ur a ****ing robot

:lolque:

Now who's arguing semantics?

My point still stands though. A religious belief is a statement about reality which is either true or false. If you care about the truth of your statements, then the onus is on you to have a good reason for making such a statement.

amRam 10-17-2020 16:44

Look at him squirm lol

You had no point. My post sailed so far over your head you couldn't even see it....

HaPpY 10-17-2020 16:46

a belief is still an opinion... just not from the perspective of the believer

samUwell 10-17-2020 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amadeus (Post 19247602)
I have heard literally hundreds of people try to explain why they hold whatever religious beliefs they hold, and not one of them had a good reason for it.

Tell me about it. Same thing happens to me each and every time I am talking to a male that believes it is a female and is demanding that I refer to it as what it believes itself to be.

"But I feel this way!"

So, I try to get them to explain why they believe they are a woman and not one of them had a good reason for it.


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