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-   -   To the tw religious ppl (https://www.tribalwar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=696182)

Edofnor 10-18-2020 09:35

if u don't bleev in god then u don't bleev in time and if u don't bleev in time then u can always b the fastest jogger in the ~fun run~

Skipperlipicus 10-18-2020 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by StapleMammal1 (Post 19247817)
Go look at a mirror, dumbass.

intelligent design does not exist.

see: wisdom teeth, appendix, tonsils, ****ty eyes, etc.

either our all-knowing god built us with flaws because they're not all-knowing, or our all-knowing god built us with flaws just to be a dick. neither choice seems worthy of devotion or worship.

lemontw 10-18-2020 11:49

reddit expert assumer in chief

Skipperlipicus 10-18-2020 11:50

someone is having a good morning.

Edofnor 10-18-2020 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skipperlipicus (Post 19247923)
intelligent design does not exist.

see: Skipperlipicus, et al.

ftfy :cool:

Amadeus 10-18-2020 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by amRam (Post 19247739)
Some of the most heinous massacres and atrocities of our times were committed by atheists and anti-religious movements. Your claim of bronze age baggage rings irrelevant to the discussion. Its not as if the domain of human evil belongs only to people of faith. Being a person of faith doesn't magically erase all your other biological human intricacies, good or bad. You bring up 9/11, I retort with Mao and Stalin. What's the point?

The point is that if people who have supposedly aligned themselves to a theistic ideal can commit just as large atrocities as those who haven't, then achieving that alignment is pointless and is not a good reason to be a theist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by amRam (Post 19247739)
I can't give you any specific positive effect of theism that can't be achieved through secular means.

Then it seems we are in agreement that there is no good reason to be a theist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by amRam (Post 19247739)
I can, however, posit the things you think are atheistic or secular aren't really. If every one of your human ancestors for the last 300,000 years has had some fundamental form of ritualistic belief in the unknown, how can you divorce your own moral compass from that evolutionary branch? If I'm the descendant of one thousand generations of Abrahamic faith adherents, but Im atheist, am I really atheist?

Yes, I am. Because I can arrive to the same, if not an even better, moral compass by dealing with reality on reality's terms. What my ancestors believed to be true or false has zero impact on what the real life consequences of my actions are.

lemontw 10-18-2020 12:13

your parents hate u lmfao

u cut ur dick off yet question mark

Amadeus 10-18-2020 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pumpkin King (Post 19247755)
Wonderful, so by proceeding with this question you agree that I gave you a good reason.

No. It's only a good reason if it is possible to achieve. So, how can it be achieved?



Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pumpkin King (Post 19247755)
You are welcome to disagree.

I disagree with the notion that you are actually seeking productivity.

You may want to look at my conversation with amRam. Surprisingly productive.



Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pumpkin King (Post 19247755)
Nope, love doesn't exist according to your worldview. After all, if you can't prove that something exists scientifically, it doesn't, right? If you are to remain consistent, you now no longer believe in the existence of love.

For all that talk about respect, you sure are quick to tell me about my worldview.

I can tell love exists, because I experience it directly, AND there is physical evidence of it, AND because I can observe others acting in a way that is consistent with my experience. Can you tell the same for your god belief?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pumpkin King (Post 19247755)
The evidence towards the religion of secular humanism that you prescribe too is far more lacking from a scientific perspective than theism by a wide margin.

Secular humanism isn't a religion. It's a religion-agnostic worldview.



Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pumpkin King (Post 19247755)
Yeah, all those great scientists, like Newton, the guy that discovered gravity.

Spoiler alert:
Spoiler

And this is relevant because?



Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pumpkin King (Post 19247755)
If someone lied to you 9 times, what would you predict about the 10th thing they said?

Similarly, if a stranger told you a story, and you could confirm 9 out of 10 facts presented in that story were true, what might you assume about the 10th that was unconfirmed?

Nothing, because it would be a logical fallacy to do otherwise. This, by the way, is the basis for a commonly known scam:

Spoiler

And here we see how the fallacies you allow yourself in your religious belief can hurt you in real life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pumpkin King (Post 19247755)
Comparing Spiderman to historical documentation? Really?

You are actually making the case that because Spiderman isn't real, historical documentation has no validity?

No, I'm making the case that just because we've confirmed the truth of one statement in a historic text, it doesn't mean that any other unconfirmed claims should be treated as true.

Amadeus 10-18-2020 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by havax (Post 19247744)
What a damn waste of time. You're not going to convince a pedophile that there is a God or a reason to believe in God, so why waste your time?

that must be why the catholic church is full of child molesters lol

amRam 10-18-2020 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amadeus (Post 19247934)
The point is that if people who have supposedly aligned themselves to a theistic ideal can commit just as large atrocities as those who haven't, then achieving that alignment is pointless and is not a good reason to be a theist.





Then it seems we are in agreement that there is no good reason to be a theist.





Yes, I am. Because I can arrive to the same, if not an even better, moral compass by dealing with reality on reality's terms. What my ancestors believed to be true or false has zero impact on what the real life consequences of my actions are.

Atheists and theists alike do bad things so theism is pointless. That's a pretty bad point bro.

What your ancestors believed has deep impact on your being. You think your moral compass is a device of your own making...that's funny.

You're still stuck on what's "true" or "false" like most silly atheists. Blinded by the origins of the physical world because you take the bible literally like the loony fundamentalists.

Falhawk 10-18-2020 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amadeus (Post 19247943)
that must be why the catholic church is full of child molesters lol

And you defend those people...

Sent from my SM-N976U using Tapatalk

Amadeus 10-18-2020 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by amRam (Post 19247945)
Atheists and theists alike do bad things so theism is pointless. That's a pretty bad point bro.

Is it not true though? Don't religions present themselves as the prerequisite to moral behaviour, only to go on and be equally flawed as everyone else?

Quote:

Originally Posted by amRam (Post 19247945)
What your ancestors believed has deep impact on your being.

But it has no impact on the consequences of my actions, which is what I said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by amRam (Post 19247945)
You think your moral compass is a device of your own making...that's funny.

Slavery used to fit in our ancestors' moral compass not too long ago. What has changed since then, and what prompted the change?

Quote:

Originally Posted by amRam (Post 19247945)
You're still stuck on what's "true" or "false" like most silly atheists. Blinded by the origins of the physical world because you take the bible literally like the loony fundamentalists.

I don't see how the origins of the physical world are relevant to this discussion, and I don't take the bible literally. Might wanna check your strawmen.

Amadeus 10-18-2020 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falhawk (Post 19247950)
And you defend those people...

Sent from my SM-N976U using Tapatalk

Give me one quote where I defended child molesters.

(Spoiler: you won't find one, because I never did.)

amRam 10-18-2020 12:56

You conflate a lot of pitfalls of organized religion with the individuals' faith. The church is man's creation after all. Susceptible to all the same negatives as any other organization. Lots of otherwise good men went on to do terrible things throughout history, with or without faith.

Faith in a higher ideal isn't the only way, it's one way. If it wasn't, it wouldn't have survived for tens/hundreds of thousands of years. Your moral compass is built on it IMO, whether or not you identify with it.

lemontw 10-18-2020 13:02

he identifies with pony pillows

Amadeus 10-18-2020 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by amRam (Post 19247958)
Faith in a higher ideal isn't the only way, it's one way. If it wasn't, it wouldn't have survived for tens/hundreds of thousands of years. Your moral compass is built on it IMO, whether or not you identify with it.

Just because something has survived for thousands of years doesn't mean it should be kept around. See: slavery.

Which brings me back to my earlier question: if we're not in charge of our own moral compass, then how come slavery went from morally acceptable to unacceptable in the span of a couple centuries?

The Pumpkin King 10-18-2020 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amadeus (Post 19247941)
No. It's only a good reason if it is possible to achieve. So, how can it be achieved?

By having a personal experience with God.

Now that you know how it is possible, thank you for your admission that it is a good reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amadeus (Post 19247941)
For all that talk about respect, you sure are quick to tell me about my worldview.

Is it disrespectful to talk about worldviews now?

So that means anyone discussing worldviews is disrespectful by default?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amadeus (Post 19247941)
I can tell love exists, because I experience it directly, AND there is physical evidence of it, AND because I can observe others acting in a way that is consistent with my experience. Can you tell the same for your god belief?

Yes, of course I can.

The fact that you would even ask that question shows that you have not spoken with many people that believe in God. Either that or you know very little about them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amadeus (Post 19247941)
Secular humanism isn't a religion. It's a religion-agnostic worldview.

Sure it is a religion. You can get into semantics based on the definition you choose, but I can easily argue that it is a religion.

Religion can be defined (My Merriam-Webster) as "4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith"

Secular humanism is nothing more than a system of beliefs, and there is plenty of faith involved in holding many of the beliefs that lie therein. I would argue that it requires more blind faith than Theism by far.

Please prove to me how secular humanism is not a system of beliefs. Anyone rational would immediately recognize that it is indeed a system of beliefs.

You yourself have admitted that you believe in the existence of love, and yet you cannot prove its existence through the scientific method. You have faith that it exists based on evidence, personal experience, and observation, which is identical to religion. People that believe in God, do so because of evidence, personal experience, and observation. There is no difference.

Your worldview is a worldview, just like any other, full of assertions and beliefs, many of which cannot be proved and require faith.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amadeus (Post 19247941)
And this is relevant because?

Many religious people throughout history have moved science forward by leaps and bounds.

Yes, you can also point out all of the bad things that religion has done too. You can also point out all the bad things the religion of secular humanism has done as well.

Claiming that religion has never done anything for science is just wrong. So wrong that it makes me believe that you have not studied history even a little bit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amadeus (Post 19247941)
Nothing, because it would be a logical fallacy to do otherwise. This, by the way, is the basis for a commonly known scam:

Oh really? And yet you do not prescribe to this, because you would believe your best friend over a complete stranger, would you not?

It's not a fallacy to trust something credible over something that is not. It's common sense.

The notion of consistent credibility is not a fallacy. It is a fact of life that you yourself adhere to on a daily basis and use as a tool for survival.

You go to work for your boss knowing that he/she will pay you, because they have proven themselves to be credible. Society is built upon the foundational stone of credibility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amadeus (Post 19247941)
No, I'm making the case that just because we've confirmed the truth of one statement in a historic text, it doesn't mean that any other unconfirmed claims should be treated as true.

I agree with that completely.

And yet, catching someone in 9 different lies serves as evidence that they are dishonest.

Likewise, confirming someone telling 9 different truths serves as evidence that they are honest.

The reason historical accuracy matters is because it serves as evidence towards honesty.

EyeZ 10-18-2020 13:25

Hail Satan

DocHolliday 10-18-2020 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amadeus (Post 19247955)
Give me one quote where I defended child molesters.

(Spoiler: you won't find one, because I never did.)

Will you condemn child molesters?

Amadeus 10-18-2020 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocHolliday (Post 19247973)
Will you condemn child molesters?

As a rule I don't condemn people, but I do wholeheartedly condemn the act of child molestation, as I always have.


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