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confidential 07-23-2009 02:15

yeah unfortunate that happened to Onyewu

he tried to make up for it at the end with that perfect header to Zigoni but Zigoni is retarded

Milan seriously needs some strikers. All they really have right now is Inzaghi and Pato. I really thought Dzeko would come but Wolfsburg is keeping him. Trezeguet would be a solid addition

Archimedes 07-23-2009 02:35

John Terry to be offered 1million a month as Manchester City make final bid to land him | Mail Online

Holy ****!

*edit - in actuality that is less than the one I posted earlier in the thread.. still a lot of ****ing money though.

Yawnfest 07-23-2009 02:53

Damn, that is nuts. I still dont for a second think Terry is considering taking it, he's just trying to leverage it and make Chelsea pay him a little more. I wonder where Man City will turn to next for defense. Quite a collection of characters they have put together, but I'm not sure Hughes is up to the task of managing it. Should be fun to watch though with that attack, i'm expecting plenty of 3-2 games.

So does anyone know if that Arab who bought Portsmouth is going to pull a Man City with them? I guess he was one of the original Dhubai buyers of Man City and he is a billionaire. Could be a crazy EPL in a few years though I'm not sure it will be positive or negative. I'll stick to my Bundesliga with the much better financial structure and TV contracts. Is it a coincidence that the Bundesliga is watched more than any other league and that its average attendance is double Italy, nearly double Spain and 10,000 more than England? No. (I welcome your angry comments)

confidential 07-23-2009 02:58

I find that hard to believe... not the attendance figures but that it's the most watched. Is that worldwide or just in Germany? EPL and La Liga are much better marketed and well known

uno 07-23-2009 03:06

hes talking out of his ass with zero proof.

Osiris 07-23-2009 06:29

Haha, looks like a ST uniform.

Osiris 07-23-2009 06:31

Also, the Bundesliga is pretty terrible, and how do they have better TV contracts?
The only good thing about Bundesliga is that clubs can't be owned by foreigners/foreign companies, iirc.

Golazo 07-23-2009 06:39

Bundesliga has a ridiculous amount of goals from outside the box and the midfield. just watch one of their top 10 weekly goals segments

i dont believe for a second bundesliga is more watched than EPL or La Liga, for that just look at revenue $$$

confidential 07-23-2009 19:53

goddamnit I keep forgetting about Gold Cup

almost half-time, 0-0

Kizzak 07-23-2009 20:26


Originally Posted by confidential (Post 14751049)
I find that hard to believe... not the attendance figures but that it's the most watched. Is that worldwide or just in Germany? EPL and La Liga are much better marketed and well known

He is right inasmuch as German stadiums for the big teams are bigger so they are able to reach a higher attendance (for example, two of the bigger clubs in England are highly constrained by capacity and have been looking to move into 60-70k stadiums for years: Liverpool, capacity: 45,276 average attendance: 43,611 and Chelsea, capacity: 42,005 average attendance: 41,588)
Another factor is that England has 20 teams rather than 18, drop two teams (most likely two teams that average in the 20ks) and England's average attendance jumps up several thousand

One other comment on attendance: last year it was 6,254 more people per match in the Bundesliga but the year before it was only 2,962

The capacities were upgraded for the World Cup so the German teams got their stadium expansions subsidized (00/01:30.9k, 01/02: 33k, 02/03: 34.1k, 03/04: 37.4k, 04/05: 38.2k, 05/06: 40.5k)

For example:
Signal Iduna Park (Dortmund): Upgraded seated capacity from 52k to 67k (overall capacity from 68k to 80k)

Allianz Arena (I notice that despite the capacity being roughly the same, Bayern's attendance jumped from 51k pre World Cup to 69k post World Cup)

HSH Nordbank Arena (similarly attendance figures jumped from 40k pre world cup to 55k post world cup for HSV)

As for TV numbers, I do not know - but one would expect that Germany (population: 82 million) would have a larger national audience than England (population: 51 million) and Spain (population: 46 million)

All else equal, they should have 60% more of a national tv audience than England and 78% more than Spain.

That said, I can guarantee that the Premier League has the largest TV contracts and that if we looked at world-wide TV figures, Premier League and La Liga would blow Bundesliga out of the water

Golazo 07-23-2009 20:56

kizzak just went pew pew

and i was like, woah

Monkey_b 07-23-2009 22:10

kizzak is like a ****ing statistical analytical logic machine on everything from politics to economics to sports :|

the guy always brings the smack down in his arguments, mad respect to you kizz, if you ever come to L.A. we're going out for drinks, and if it's during soccer season you can come with me and snaps to the fox and hounds for a game or two

Kizzak 07-23-2009 23:13

NY Post nails it:


Before David Beckham joined the Galaxy, I said he'd be great for MLS and soccer in this country; and now that the honeymoon is over _ getting booed in his return to L.A. and having an ugly incident with a fan _ I'm sure of it. Business is about profit, but soccer is about passion; he gives them both.

He gives the sport buzz, the league cash, and fans a villain to revile. But all the Becklash is good for MLS, so keep the hate coming. It just shows your league is All Growd Up. Well, getting there, at least.

Sure, all sports prompt emotion, from a Yankee fan hating the Red Sox to a Met fan hating his Mets. But in soccer, those emotions are laid bare and raw. Whether you cheer for Chelsea or root for River Plate, soccer is often about passion, pain and frustration. Like Josh Paige's.

Tired of seeing L.A.'s captain view his team like a nuisance instead of an employer, watching him treat a game vs. AC Milan like a reunion, the Riot Squad booed him. A petulant Beckham motioned four times for Paige to come down toward the field, which he foolishly did _ getting roughed up by security, arrested and banned from the Home Depot Center.

Beckham claimed he just invited Paige to shake hands. Right, and Bernie Madoff is handing out refunds.

Still, instead of apologize to its fans for charging full-price for a half-hearted star, the Galaxy sent out a release regarding the incident but with no comment from Beckham himself. This isn't excusing Paige, who was wrong, seemingly drunk and borderline stupid. But now at least the 32-year-old independent film producer _ isn't everybody in Hollywood? _ has something to use in his next flick: The day MLS grew up.

Don't get me twisted: I abhor the riots that go on in Colombia, and hate the hooliganism that Beckham's Brits took to new lows in the 1980s. But how can you not love the guy who ran on the field, ripped up his Middlesbrough season tickets and tossed them at Steve McClaren three years ago?

That's passion. And according to Doug Logan, MLS' first commissioner, that's what it needs.

"The guy gets paid an inordinate amount of money to take this stuff; for him to walk in the corner and do what he did is the epitome of lack of professionalism,'' Logan told the Post. "I can tell you what my good friend David Stern would've done, and has done. It's bush-league on his part.''

Logan _ now CEO of USA Track & Field _ meant Beckham, but it applies to successor Don Garber for not suspending or fining him. What does it say that Houston's Brian Ching got fined for tweeting about a game he didn't even play in, while MLS' cash cow is allowed to go all Tony Bernazard?

But Beckham is the Telflon Fraud. (Or is Teflon Twit better?) He hasn't been punished because he's good for MLS, which admittedly for too long chased soccer moms and ignored futbol fans. Now Logan _ who knows fan passion from putting his way through Manhattan as a Yankee Stadium beer vendor _ says hardcores are finally caring, from Beckham feuding with Landon Donovan and now his own fans.

"(Now) we've got people in the seats that know what the hell's going on and have passion. It's a tribute to the sport coming of age,'' Logan told the Post. "It's a tribal sport. It's not a picnic. It's serious. The more serious it's treated, the more commercially viable it becomes.

"What you need is a passionate following that comes game after game, enjoys an adult beverage or two, occasionally sees a blue word come out of their mouth and is very male. Around the world, that's successful soccer.''

Slowly, MLS is becoming just that. And love him or hate him, Beckham is a big reason.

He came here spiting all this ish about making soccer in the U.S. legit. It isn't how he planned, but he may be doing just that.
Becklash shows MLS is growing up - Soccer: Extra Time

Kizzak 07-23-2009 23:26

Costa Rica - Mexico on Univision

:wtf: I swear I just heard a U-S-A chant

Strykir 07-23-2009 23:43

nothing better than coming home from soccer practice to relax and watch the game

Mud Sloth 07-23-2009 23:57

That's a good article on Beckham/MLS and I think it's pretty spot on.

Yawnfest 07-24-2009 00:52

Attendance figures are roughly from ESPN ~Germany 44k, England 35k, Spain 27k, Italy 22k. I frankly don't know about the world's most watched league, i'd wager you all are correct it is England and Spain close behind, but in Europe Germany is by far most watched. You can say it's the population but mostly its because all the neighboring Balkan, Scandanavian and Slovak nations watch the Bundesliga while Spain and England don't have that much draw outside of their island/peninsula in Europe.

Sure, the Bundesliga will never have the top Tier Teams like Barca, Real, Man Utd, etc. because of the structure of the league the clubs cannot take on huge amounts of debt and run their club in a risky manner. But oh well. You have to love a league that lets the fans run the show. The fans want a game on fridays? Ok, then 1 on Friday. The fans want the games at X time on Saturday and X time on Sunday? Ok, it is done. And they will be on these TV networks which the fans approve of. Clubs are profitable in the Bundesliga and you do not have these stories like Leeds United or the yearly debacle of which Premier League team will go near insolvency and get relegated never to return (or get saved by a rich Arab oil baron). Every stadium is packed, it has extremely low fan violence, stadiums are structured how the fans want with standing sections and terraces, the tickets are cheaper, etc.

And the Bundesliga is exciting for the casual observer. When a lower tier side plays the top they play an aggressive counter attack style that leads to very fun to watch matches, unlike England where you park 10 behind the ball and watch the snoozefest commence. There are more goals every single year for 20 years running than any other top league. Not exactly a coincidence. And anyone can achieve the CL spots or win the league. It isn't Spain where only 2 teams can win the title or England where only 4 can win and only 4 can get CL spots.

It's understandable most Americans flock to the Premier league because of better TV coverage and the language, but honestly it is a pretty dull league. 4 teams fight for the top 4 and the rest of the league wallows away in indifference. Teams don't even want the UEFA Cup spots and outside the top 4 the league is so shallow the English teams never do anything in the UEFA cup anyways because they are bad or don't care. Maybe that will change with all the Arabs moving in that could shake it up. We'll see how everyone likes the new Arab/Russian Oil League over in England in 5 years.

Yawnfest 07-24-2009 00:58

On the Beckham article. It is an interesting take. And partly true but too much credit is given to Beckham. You think the Seattle Sounders fill the house and have great fans because of anything to do with Beckham? No. The northwest has been a great place for soccer for years and the old rivalry between Portland/Seattle/Vancouver has always been awesome and passionate. Passion is what the MLS needs and it needs rivalries and thats what adding Vancouver and Portland will do for the league. Two more places like Seattle that fill the seats and a bunch of great rivalries every year. I can tell you right now Philadelphia will be average at best for the league and be another Kansas City.

The northeast just isn't that into soccer and a place like Philadelphia soccer is more ridiculed by meathead baseball/football fans than anything else. They put like 10,000 people in the stands for the Gold Cup while Seattle put 65,000 for a friendly. The league should face up that this is a sport predominantly for the west coast and then a couple of hotbed spots sprinkled around, but stop thinking "Well, here's a big city that doesn't have a team, lets give them one!"

Mud Sloth 07-24-2009 01:02

Seattle doesn't owe anything to Beckham but MLS as a whole does. I'm a Portlander and have been dying for real soccer beyond college level for a while. The fact that the Northwest packs the house in Seattle and will pack the house in Portland when we get our team is great and helps soccer in the US in general. But, credit here credit is due, Beckham brought more recognition to the sport nationally than anyone or any team has.

Kizzak 07-24-2009 01:34


Originally Posted by Mud Sloth (Post 14754012)
Seattle doesn't owe anything to Beckham but MLS as a whole does. I'm a Portlander and have been dying for real soccer beyond college level for a while.

you've had a hometown team above the college level for some time now :shrug:

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