rogue wotlk

C

Coldshot

Veteran XX
so in bc, hit was the key. ive notice armor pen is on alot of gear and everyone seems to be going mut spec. i have also noticed people using 50ap enchants on weapons. so some questions:

is ap expertise > any other chant now for rogues?
i dont like playing mut, is combat still raid viable?
if so is sword still top weapon choice or is fist/mace a better option?
 
Most decent rogues I've seen are still using dual goose, as am I. 240 agi & 6% haste > 130 static ap imo, though I'm sure there is some theorycrafting going on about that on the EJ forums. *edit: oh yeah i forgot about berserking, chance on hit 400AP... think thats going to be the new rogue enchant (gay)

Hit isn't going to be any less important, as you are going to need a certain amount to hit raid bosses.

I'm going to try out combat swords and see what kind of dps it puts out, ive seen people with the fist weapon & sword talent and running fist MH sword OH. most people are mut now though, which is a damn shame because i hate daggers.

at top end (25 man raids) im sure the mut is going to be the best spec, with combat swords slightly behind (somewhere around 5-10% i think i read on EJ). In heroics and 10mans combat will surely be still viable. It really is going to depend upon what gear level you're at and what you're trying to do.

Pocket Guide to WOTLK - Elitist Jerks
 
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In general, AP and Agility are the two best stats now. Hit is weak, APen is worse.

Mutilate is better on anything Murderable, they are similar on things that aren't. Fist (dagger OH usually) or Sword is the best spec, whichever you can get your hands on.

I'm using 50 AP because I'm lazy, and I plan to upgrade shortly. Mongoose is better, and Berserking may or may not be better than 'goose. (Should be better, assuming the proc rate is the same)
 
i tried mut but cannot do it. i know i must be a retard but frankly i cant figure out the hit rotation and keep the hunger up. im using maces atm and feel im doing slightly less dps in 5mans than when i was swords. fists i havent really tried yet due to lack of decent ones. i hit 80 today and start heroics. we will see, plus soon i break my 4 piece t6 bonus with some leather gear.

jagnut destromath if you want to armory
 
Coldshot|WSBN said:
i tried mut but cannot do it. i know i must be a retard but frankly i cant figure out the hit rotation and keep the hunger up. im using maces atm and feel im doing slightly less dps in 5mans than when i was swords. fists i havent really tried yet due to lack of decent ones. i hit 80 today and start heroics. we will see, plus soon i break my 4 piece t6 bonus with some leather gear.

jagnut destromath if you want to armory
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Mutilate basically has no rotation, as you can have 4-5 hitpoints pretty consistently. It's about choices.

Make sure HfB is up. Keep rupture going. If SnD drops below 10 secs or so, envenom.

Faster daggers do more damage as well. HfB is a complete pain in the ass, but you can queue it up before the fight, then just maintain it.

I am sticking with combat because it requires less focus. Call me retarded but when I play at night, I am usually drinking and running the raid. I lack the focus to keep HfB up along with looking around at what the raid is doing. It just takes too much effort as opposed to SnD and rupture rotation.
 
I like the mutilate playstyle and that's what I'm currently specced, but as soon as I get a hold of good combat weaps, I'll respec. Would be too annoying trying to two box my resto druid and play mutilate at the same time in instances.
 
Right now I'm currently specced mutilated. However, I've seen a lot of people going back to combat. I like the play style of mutilate better. In wotlk at 80 and with equal gear, are rogues going to do less dps than hunters or are we able to keep up? I have yet to hit 80 to see for myself. In VH, I've done consistently more than same-level hunters that I play with, but I've heard that hunters are the best dps class.
 
Divine said:
Right now I'm currently specced mutilated. However, I've seen a lot of people going back to combat. I like the play style of mutilate better. In wotlk at 80 and with equal gear, are rogues going to do less dps than hunters or are we able to keep up? I have yet to hit 80 to see for myself. In VH, I've done consistently more than same-level hunters that I play with, but I've heard that hunters are the best dps class.
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Our hunter (Surreal on here) consistently pulls 500 dps more than I do on Patchwerk and I run a pretty solid rotation. He also had less gear than me and now has an epic bow instead of a blue bow.

he was hitting 3300 while I was at 2800 or so. There's almost no way to mess up patchwerk rotation given the mechanics of the fight for dps classes.
 
AdreNaLiNe said:
Our hunter (Surreal on here) consistently pulls 500 dps more than I do on Patchwerk and I run a pretty solid rotation. He also had less gear than me and now has an epic bow instead of a blue bow.

he was hitting 3300 while I was at 2800 or so. There's almost no way to mess up patchwerk rotation given the mechanics of the fight for dps classes.
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/hijack
How about DKs DPS on patch? (spec too if you know it <3)
 
Horrible. DKs are pulling 1800 dps. They are the least geared of all the classes though, havng no epic filler gear. I'm hoping that ramps up (as my guild has a lot of them). I hope they scale well with gear. I should see a huge jump next raid myself, having gotten the fist weapon and the T7 helm last night.

If you want good specs, hitting up EJ is always the best. They have 2 blood specs for dps and raid utility that looked nice. I don't know the class personally, however.

PS: EJ = elitistjerks.com
Forum section
DK subsection

There is a DK PvE dps thread on there with both specs for blood (as well as Unholy/Frost) and they go into lots of details about the mechanics and rotation of abilities.
 
AdreNaLiNe said:
Our hunter (Surreal on here) consistently pulls 500 dps more than I do on Patchwerk and I run a pretty solid rotation. He also had less gear than me and now has an epic bow instead of a blue bow.

he was hitting 3300 while I was at 2800 or so. There's almost no way to mess up patchwerk rotation given the mechanics of the fight for dps classes.
Click to expand...

This would seem to be a pretty big balance issue, as both classes are dps-only...

My sequence is looking like Garrote/Cheap Shot > SnD > 4/5cp Rup > 4/5 cp Envenom (full stack) > then alternating Rup/Env while keeping Hunger for Blood up and using Mut to fill the CP's in between finishers. Is there something that I should be doing differently?
 
I've been noticing mail caster gear is itemized for crit considerably more than leather gear is. Sucks that an Ele shaman can basically quest for gear that will give them 22% crit, and I struggle through naxx and heroics to get 19% on my boomkin. :\
 
AdreNaLiNe said:
Horrible. DKs are pulling 1800 dps. They are the least geared of all the classes though, havng no epic filler gear. I'm hoping that ramps up (as my guild has a lot of them). I hope they scale well with gear. I should see a huge jump next raid myself, having gotten the fist weapon and the T7 helm last night.

If you want good specs, hitting up EJ is always the best. They have 2 blood specs for dps and raid utility that looked nice. I don't know the class personally, however.

PS: EJ = elitistjerks.com
Forum section
DK subsection

There is a DK PvE dps thread on there with both specs for blood (as well as Unholy/Frost) and they go into lots of details about the mechanics and rotation of abilities.
Click to expand...

Yea I know about EJ :p
Its just a pain trying to find parses amongst pages of garbage and arithmetic.
Thanks for the info tho :)
 
I hated mut at first, but I really don't mind it now that i've gotten use to it.

The only time I get beat on single target meters is by a warrior. They are pretty sick right now. I've beat him on most patchwerk kills, but he's gotten me on a couple. I've been easily over 4k on every patchwerk kill, gone as high as 6.5k on some of the gimmick fights.
 
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PessimiStick said:
I've seen Unholy DK parses over 4k a few times. Class seems ok, I'd wager most players just suck.
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I wasn't suggesting that the class or the mechanics of it are off. I more or less see it as a "I'm not sure what gear to use yet" kind of deal or "No gear for me has dropped yet" kind of deal. Not everyone reads EJ clearly enough to understand a lot of what's behind the classes and stuff. Even some of our solid players go by feel rather than empirical evidence.
 
Divine said:
This would seem to be a pretty big balance issue, as both classes are dps-only...

My sequence is looking like Garrote/Cheap Shot > SnD > 4/5cp Rup > 4/5 cp Envenom (full stack) > then alternating Rup/Env while keeping Hunger for Blood up and using Mut to fill the CP's in between finishers. Is there something that I should be doing differently?
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Instant MH, DP OH.

And your rotation looks solid.

Hunters, I believe, have always had the highest dps potential, but I find that every raid works differently in that some guilds have better rogues than hunters and others better hunter than rogues and they tuned their raid (pre-wotlk) to their player strengths.

Btw pessi, I threw beserk on the fist. I think it is better than mongoose, right? I imagine mongoose may scale better when you have better gear though.
 
There are TONS of terrible DK's around. I've seen an abundance of bad rogues and hunters since hitting 80 though. 900dps in a VH H the other day by a rogue. :(
 
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