T:V Random map

A

Amadeus

Veteran XX
I thought of random maps in the 'evolving CTF' thread, and the more I think of it, the more I like it. Random maps are the key to 100% replayability. Just take a look at any of the Age of Empires series: basically it's just 'build a lot of troops quickly and rush the enemy'. The reason people kept playing was the variety of the maps: always a new situation with new solutions.

The idea is simple: when a mission is over, the server - instead of loading a pre-made map - generates a new one, following some basic rules (especially in terms of base placement).

Only problem with random maps is the gametype they could be played on. CTF is incompatible with random maps, since random bases placed on a random terrain would almost always end up in unbalanced gameplay.

Basically, the key to the success of random maps is in the relationship of teams and terrain. Gametypes that practically have no teams like Deathmatch, Hunters and Rabbit, or types without bases like Team Rabbit are an obvious solution. If there will be bases, than you should make sure that teams don't have permanent bases. This enables C&H for random map play.

Unfortunately, none of these gametypes is very popular (except Team Rabbit). So, it's up to us to think of gametypes that could be used with random maps. The first idea that would be good IMO:
Roadkill(er) said:
If you want a find the flag type CTF -- spawn all players in relative center of map, with a huge forcefeild (though see through) running the length of the map, seperating teams. Every player has a flag. Everyone has 15-60 seconds to run to any position he or she wants. Then the server respawns every player at base camp (or regualr map spawn points), and forcefeild is removed. One player from each team has been randomly chosen, and wherever they were when time was up, the flag sits. CTFR -Capture the Flag Random.
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Even though there could be permanent bases here, there is enough randomness that it gets irrelevant.

I'm sure there are a lot of other ideas. Please feel free to post yours.
 
I dunno, it might be neat. But all these ideas seem needlessly complex to implement into one of the most complex games to learn already...

and how fun would it be to have the AFK guys flags chosen, so theyre 20m apart?
 
Um, I think you misread my posts in that thread (if you're referring to my thread). I'm about as anti-random in games as you can get. Especially in regard to maps. Most/all of what I said was related to specific time based ideas, that were consistant every time you played the map. (ie: the map would change as time went on throughout the map, but the map would always be the same when you played it, and the changes would be the same as well).
 
As a guy struggling to master UED (Unreal engine editor) coding a random map generator would be next to impossible. Maybe random flag locations but whole maps? No way.
 
ZProtoss said:
Um, I think you misread my posts in that thread (if you're referring to my thread). I'm about as anti-random in games as you can get. Especially in regard to maps. Most/all of what I said was related to specific time based ideas, that were consistant every time you played the map. (ie: the map would change as time went on throughout the map, but the map would always be the same when you played it, and the changes would be the same as well).
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I know that. I just began thinking about ways to make Tribes missions more interesting and more replayable. This idea technically has nothing to do with your evolving CTF ideas, that is why I started a new thread.
Tycho said:
I dunno, it might be neat. But all these ideas seem needlessly complex to implement into one of the most complex games to learn already...

and how fun would it be to have the AFK guys flags chosen, so theyre 20m apart?
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If you feel like it, you can think of more simple ways to make random map an efficient mutator: because let's face it, it should be a mutator. Either have the regular map rotation, or random maps following each other.

And I already had an idea to sort people AFK in another thread: after a preset time (should be available in the server setup), kick people if no other information from them was received by the server except what is needed for them not to time out.
mappy said:
As a guy struggling to master UED (Unreal engine editor) coding a random map generator would be next to impossible. Maybe random flag locations but whole maps? No way.
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I don't know anything about UED itself, but a random map generator shouldn't be that hard. You already get a random terrain when you make a new map, don't you? (at least that's how it worked in T1 and T2) You should just add some buildings and assets based on some logical checks and preset patterns. :shrug:
Anyways, let's just leave the technical stuff to Irrational; concentrate more on the theory ;).
 
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jotun said:
just make it generate mirror image maps for CTF

this would be a nice option if it can be pulled off
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Exactly.. make half of the map and reflect it to the other side, if that's possible.

I used to play a lot of random maps in sof2 ctf pubs, pretty fun stuff.
Better than playing the same elimination/infiltration maps all the time...
 
This idea is great. Randomness in regards to pubs would be great... pubs would never be stale and it'd always be an adventure.

I've touched on it with Legends a bit, getting random terrain in the game is possible, but still requires some form of client-side scripting. The idea being, terrain will be random, as will flag stands and flag positions. According to a set minimum distance / max distance. Bases will probably be left out, unless they're floating above terrain, which would make more sense.

In regards to T:V, hopefully the modified Unreal engine will be robust enough to support some form of this, mod-wise or right out of the box. I'm really hoping for something worth wasting time on.

Maybe some dev could touch on this a bit?
 
Even if we stick to CTF (but I can't get bored of encouraging everyone to think of some innovative gametypes for RM), you don't always need floating bases. I think it would be possible for the engine to scan some parts of the terrain and decide what kind of base (at least in size) to put there. If the terrain has too many small hills and stuff, only then should it always spawn floating bases.
 
Khushi said:
such maps wouldn't have to be uploaded to the client either. just the random seeds used to generate the map.
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I'm not sure about that, but it would be extremely useful. Especially for 56k users who don't want to d/l a whole map every 20 minutes or so.
 
Amadeu5 said:
I'm not sure about that, but it would be extremely useful. Especially for 56k users who don't want to d/l a whole map every 20 minutes or so.
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anything 'random' on a computer can be duplicated perfectly by using the same seeds. the randomness is fake - it just performs various operations on the seed, theres your number.. and uses that number as the next seed
 
Heh, reminds me of programming course in school, where we learned Pascal: if you didn't add the randomize; command somewhere, every individual computer came up with the same 'random' numbers, all the time.


Any ideas on gametypes, anyone?
 
mappy said:
As a guy struggling to master UED (Unreal engine editor) coding a random map generator would be next to impossible. Maybe random flag locations but whole maps? No way.
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well, they'd probably have to be fairly simple.. just making a random image within some parameters and then using it as a heightmap

having it make a mirror image map and choosing building/flag placement would be difficult though
 
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