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TechnoDonut
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Old
141 - 09-21-2017, 01:09 PM
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I think that we condemn people for their actions in these life and death situations at our peril. If police think that the public is going to hang them out to dry every time they use force, then they're just going to stop policing. Ive seen it first hand here in Baltimore. And if the general public doesn't feel empowered to defend themselves in a reasonable way, then we're truly screwed.
 
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Last edited by TechnoDonut; 09-21-2017 at 01:11 PM.
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TheVoiceOfReason
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142 - 09-21-2017, 01:58 PM
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Please understand, this nut wanted to die of a gunshot from a police officer. If it had worked out differently he might be suing because they didn't shoot him.

 
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BeLiaL
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143 - 09-21-2017, 02:01 PM
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I think it's really easy for us to sit here and speak about what the problems are with these situations.

Unfortunately, it's exponentially more difficult to find a solution that is reasonable, promotes social concern, and doesn't put police officers' lives in unnecessary jeopardy.
 
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JuggerNaught
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144 - 09-21-2017, 02:52 PM
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The guy had a mental disorder where ~50% of those with it are suicidal. He was apparently part of that 50%
 
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coombz
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145 - 09-21-2017, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pagy View Post
this guy willingly and admittedly does everything he can to get shot by cops

coombz blames the cops

i really dont care if he had a weapon out or not. they were told he had a knife and or gun. he wasnt complying. bubye now
I don't blame the cops or even give half a ****

I have long since stopped expecting anything related to America and crime to make any sense

I was just curious because TD seems like a sensible, intelligent chap, but also seems fine with the fact that cops shoot to kill without any evidence of an actual threat
 
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Fool
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146 - 09-21-2017, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coombz View Post
I don't blame the cops or even give half a ****

I have long since stopped expecting anything related to America and crime to make any sense

I was just curious because TD seems like a sensible, intelligent chap, but also seems fine with the fact that cops shoot to kill without any evidence of an actual threat
Are you speaking in general or about this case in particular? I mean you didn't watch the video. This person left three suicide notes and called in themselves as a possible campus shooter. They told the cops "Shoot me". They ignored the orders of the police repeatedly, and then moved towards them. Out of several officers, only one fired their weapon, and did so once. There is nothing about this case that is even remotely controversial.
 
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coombz
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147 - 09-21-2017, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Fool View Post
Are you speaking in general or about this case in particular? I mean you didn't watch the video.
In general - the tone of the thread was like 'they had weapon, so at that distance the cops had no choice but to shoot them'

and then further in the thread I read that he didn't actually have a weapon, just an unopened multi tool...so I wondered if there is any attempt made to check that there is actually a credible threat and this isn't just a hoax or a setup of some harmless looney

in this particular case, like you say, not too controversial when you look at the whole thing

still seems a bit ****ed to me that you can evidently just call the cops on someone and claim they have a gun and a knife and they will come down on you in full trigger happy comply or die mode with no actual evidence. Doesn't seem ideal me, but then as TD pointed out I don't come from a country with more guns than people
 
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Last edited by coombz; 09-21-2017 at 03:43 PM.
JuggerNaught
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148 - 09-21-2017, 03:50 PM
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The cops don't just show up and start blasting. They could see he had something metallic in his hand
 
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Fool
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149 - 09-21-2017, 03:50 PM
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Well obviously campus shooters have created probably more overcautious hysteria of late, but to your mind what should the procedure be to determine the threat level without further endangering students and the police in an instance where the suspect is an actual shooter?
 
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coombz
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150 - 09-21-2017, 03:53 PM
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well, I'd imagine that anything more than hearsay is going to be a dramatic improvement... ;o
 
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Pagy
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151 - 09-21-2017, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by coombz View Post
I don't blame the cops or even give half a ****

I have long since stopped expecting anything related to America and crime to make any sense

I was just curious because TD seems like a sensible, intelligent chap, but also seems fine with the fact that cops shoot to kill without any evidence of an actual threat
the victim told the police they were a threat

then threatened the police

then asked them to shoot them...literally
 
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Captain Tele
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152 - 09-21-2017, 03:56 PM
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it is always the guy who can't defend himself, his family, his own life, his own possessions, questioning how those he relinquishes that duty to does their job

this is poetic in many ways
 
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Captain Tele
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153 - 09-21-2017, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by coombz View Post
Doesn't seem ideal me
welcome to irl coombzy

it is a pretty neat place when you look around and get a feelz for it

in ideal worlds nobody ever needs to get shot or killed

that is a fun fact
 
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Last edited by Captain Tele; 09-21-2017 at 04:02 PM.
BeLiaL
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154 - 09-21-2017, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coombz View Post
In general - the tone of the thread was like 'they had weapon, so at that distance the cops had no choice but to shoot them'

and then further in the thread I read that he didn't actually have a weapon, just an unopened multi tool...so I wondered if there is any attempt made to check that there is actually a credible threat and this isn't just a hoax or a setup of some harmless looney

in this particular case, like you say, not too controversial when you look at the whole thing

still seems a bit ****ed to me that you can evidently just call the cops on someone and claim they have a gun and a knife and they will come down on you in full trigger happy comply or die mode with no actual evidence. Doesn't seem ideal me, but then as TD pointed out I don't come from a country with more guns than people
It isn't THAT easy. Since the call was regarding someone with a knife (and gun, but who even cares), the cops showed up to find someone holding something resembling a knife. So, they probably drew their guns and flashlights to assess the situation. FYI, knives are deadly, and it doesn't take long to close and attack at that distance.

At that point, a sane person needs to comply. While it may not be a knife, it may be something which could be used to cause lethal injury, and it isn't always easy to tell from 15-30ft away. If one doesn't comply, it's likely he will be shot, because he is a potentially lethal threat.

Statistically, someone will get stabbed/slashed in a knife fight. Even when someone is trained to disarm the assailant. Do you feel like someone with a knife/potential weapon is not a threat, or do you feel like cops should risk their lives to disarm the person? And then, legally, how do you define the line between people worth disarming and people not worth disarming? Surely you would think that an alleged murderer with a potentially lethal weapon is not worth trying to disarm.

The question for me is how do we handle situations involving the mentally ill while not putting the officers' lives in unnecessary danger.
 
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Captain Tele
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Old
155 - 09-21-2017, 05:07 PM
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in an ideal world nobody even needs guns and knives

food is served to you hot and already sliced

i mean in an ideal world america is pretty ****ing dumb u know
 
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Fool
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Old
156 - 09-21-2017, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by coombz View Post
well, I'd imagine that anything more than hearsay is going to be a dramatic improvement... ;o
Which is why they did not roll up shooting automatic weapons at anyone moving. They identified the subject, approached with weapons drawn, kept their distance, moved to cover while addressing the subject and repeated orders to drop the weapon. When the subject refused to comply and began moving towards the cop, a single shot was fired and hit them in the chest. Should cops be forced to pat down a knife wielding suspect for the reported gun before disarming them?
 
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cancer
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Old
157 - 09-21-2017, 05:26 PM
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while tazing can be lethal, i find that a far more acceptable use of force against any average citizen with a knife

i mean once the cops are there and realize he/she is not pointing a gun at them, can't they just toggle from pistol to tazer?
 
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Last edited by cancer; 09-21-2017 at 05:34 PM.
Captain Tele
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158 - 09-21-2017, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Fool View Post
Which is why they did not roll up shooting automatic weapons at anyone moving. They identified the subject, approached with weapons drawn, kept their distance, moved to cover while addressing the subject and repeated orders to drop the weapon. When the subject refused to comply and began moving towards the cop, a single shot was fired and hit them in the chest. Should cops be forced to pat down a knife wielding suspect for the reported gun before disarming them?
yeah but in an ideal world u just talk to them and they listen

they just accept what you tell them to do and don't have any issues with it



but coombz doesn't realize we live in this world

not that ideal world he talks of
 
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coombz
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Old
159 - 09-21-2017, 05:33 PM
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an ideal world and an ideal process or technique for achieving something are different things, save your strawman sperging for someone else
 
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Dangerdoggie
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160 - 09-21-2017, 05:52 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KISscto8Xko
 
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