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HaPpY
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Old
1061 - 11-26-2016, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Validuz View Post
Here's the insane part, they are recruiting people for recounting.

So a bunch of butt-hurt progressive ****bags are going to be the ones counting.

trump better counter that **** stat or he may lose
 
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Validuz
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Old
1062 - 11-26-2016, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Esteban_Villa View Post
And this is a great example of a brainwashed right winger who bashes a man for trying to get clarity on an issue. When you're that far on the right on issues, even normal Joes begin to look like marxists.
Oh, another wild progressive appears to call his brother a regular Joe.

p.s. You can't be brainwashed into being fiscally/nationally conservative. It's the logical conclusion to having a brain.
 
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HaPpY
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Old
1063 - 11-26-2016, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by absent View Post
When you say "the n-word" you're forcing me to say ****** in my head, you bastard.
i just call it the ******-word now
 
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Captain Tele
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Old
1064 - 11-26-2016, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Feannag View Post
Whoa now there, seriously though. Anyone have any ACTUAL numbers on Trump's businesses and actual worth? Last I checked he had quite a few failed/bankrupt businesses. And the extra dart in that mess is the "Trump University settlement", practically admits it failed and they just want the people to go away. Someone with a "keen sense of business" wouldn't be making and bankrupting business after business, only reason he is still around is his real estate is eating up those losses. And yes that whole debt thing started in the 90s, but is that debt actually still there? Was it all paid off or was it simply "moved around" much like people transfer credit balances to new accounts?

And the famous "refuses to release his taxes" thing. If he had such "keen" business sense why would he feel the need to hide how his own personal finances are handled? Wouldn't that be a sheer fundamental of business sense, being able to manage your personal finances well?

And FOREIGN trade? Did I miss something when Trump claimed "The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive." It doesn't take an actual businessmen to know we actually out-sourced nearly all our manufacturing to China during the 90s and turn of the millennia. Why would China create a hoax to make us non-competitive when we basically GAVE them our work and made ourselves non-competitive on that alone?

None of this sounds like a businessman with a "keen" sense of anything other than using real estate to handle/manage debt, and not the debt management we need.
i actually enjoy your posts

walking_man and MHS others ....

i have been thinking about this a lot and maybe what we need is a "bankruptcy" president right now.

i mean look at how GM Chapter 11 was handled a few years back

General Motors Chapter 11 reorganization - Wikipedia

this idea of we are going to put the taxpayers on the hook for private loses, just to watch a company go belly up anyways, is about as wasteful and fiscally incompetent as it gets.

yes, even moreso than the bad ideas and piss poor prioritization that got us into these messes in the first place.

our bubble economy is in euphoria mode right now......but the global bubble is still doing its stagnation thing and i doubt that even a Trump presidency is going to resolve that beyond more short term "hopium" injections.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ECi6WJpbzE

maybe we don't have the hero we want but the hero we need with our Bankrutpcy King where he is today.
 
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Captain Tele
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Old
1065 - 11-26-2016, 05:40 PM
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shocking...shocked i tell you

almost like the clinton cartel good at using proxy agents to push their agenda for them

from money laundering through CF, to ISIS, to winning elections
 
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HaPpY
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Old
1066 - 11-26-2016, 05:40 PM
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dont forget feannag is our resident "special" kid. goshin is einstein in comparison
 
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cael
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Old
1067 - 11-26-2016, 05:41 PM
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we got a lot of special people in this thread, but most of them are old and angry
 
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Old
1068 - 11-26-2016, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Kerosene31 View Post
See, we agree on a lot of stuff. Not everything, but a lot.

My only big disagreement is that the gov't is not beyond hope. The less gov't we have in most cases, the better. However you can't just remove them from the equation. When you do, corporations fill that power gap, and they do not act in our long term best interests either. Corporate America has fallen into the trap of focusing on the short term. Forget next year, how does this quarter look? That kind of thinking leads to some very, very bad decision making (see the housing crisis).

You're feelings on gov't are very common and understandable, but if it can't improve then we are all totally ****ed. It won't be easy but it can be done.

I don't want big gov't, but I don't want big business running things either. You have to strike a balance between the two.
I am very much in line with minarchism -the nightwatchman State. As I've said before, we do need some gvt in order to function as a viable society. The equation and disagreement always boils down to how much. As younger generations are being brainwashed into accepting the Nanny State, the worse the future will be where it becomes acceptable to give away our Liberties and Freedoms to the State, which is the antithesis to what this Nation was founded on. To date, we have been unable to find a better form of gvt. Communism / Socialism showed its true face by murdering ~100 million people, so yeah, I distrust the power of any State.

The inherent flaw with a capitalist society is the fact that there will be winners and losers, which also applies to amassing wealth. In a free society, it also offers the best opportunity to create upward mobility economically. I believe the key to allaying your fears is a society that actually prosecutes corruption without any mercy. So imo, while the potential to fill the gap you worry over is there, a just society willing to prosecute would mitigate it.

This is where I believe that balance can be achieved, but its going to take willpower to hold people who commit crimes accountable for the actions. Affluenza and twinkie defenses wouldnt cut it in my society. Your ass would be going to prison or being put to death depending on your crime(s). In other words, once people know there are real consequences for their actions, the less likely they are to act on them.
 
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Captain Tele
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Old
1069 - 11-26-2016, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Kerosene31 View Post
Forget next year, how does this quarter look? That kind of thinking leads to some very, very bad decision making (see the housing crisis).
Moral hazard - Wikipedia

who do i blame more....

banks writing bad housing loans, to people who they know were not qualified, couldn't afford it (which government encouraged w/ CRA), or.......

the FHA who gobbled up those bad loans like they were a preteen with pokemon cards

knowing that by doing so morally or ethically corrupted banks (by FED or CEO) could continue to have liquidity needed to write more bad loans and we could put tax payers, not the private banks, on the hook for any future issues or foreclosures.

greed is bad. greed backed by government is evil.

lucky for us we have a system nearly devoid of market competition......and one where government makes everyone responsible for the bad decisions of the few.

and we wonder how we got into this mess. why everything and every idea just keeps getting worse
 
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Last edited by Captain Tele; 11-26-2016 at 05:54 PM.
Esteban_Villa
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Old
1070 - 11-26-2016, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Validuz View Post
Oh, another wild progressive appears to call his brother a regular Joe.

p.s. You can't be brainwashed into being fiscally/nationally conservative. It's the logical conclusion to having a brain.
You're confusing actual marxists from normal people who work jobs and raise families that preclude them from hours upon hours of independent research (which is tough to find and quite frankly tough to analyze also) and have a mixed system of beliefs due to hearing information from both sides.

Making sweeping and rude statements to them pushes them towards the actual Marxist camp instead of being understanding and engaging in reasoned discourse rather than vitriolic rhetoric. I see people like you as more of a danger to the cause of various right aligned movements as you set a very poor example and have over the course of a decade on this forum. I remember you from 2008 when I was young and the idiotic rage fueled statements and you have never served your cause well via it, and you never influenced me (unlike other posters here) into a more aligned viewpoint.
 
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Last edited by Esteban_Villa; 11-26-2016 at 06:03 PM.
Captain Tele
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Old
1071 - 11-26-2016, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by -SS- View Post
I am very much in line with minarchism -the nightwatchman State. As I've said before, we do need some gvt in order to function as a viable society. The equation and disagreement always boils down to how much. As younger generations are being brainwashed into accepting the Nanny State, the worse the future will be where it becomes acceptable to give away our Liberties and Freedoms to the State, which is the antithesis to what this Nation was founded on. To date, we have been unable to find a better form of gvt. Communism / Socialism showed its true face by murdering ~100 million people, so yeah, I distrust the power of any State.

The inherent flaw with a capitalist society is the fact that there will be winners and losers, which also applies to amassing wealth. In a free society, it also offers the best opportunity to create upward mobility economically. I believe the key to allaying your fears is a society that actually prosecutes corruption without any mercy. So imo, while the potential to fill the gap you worry over is there, a just society willing to prosecute would mitigate it.

This is where I believe that balance can be achieved, but its going to take willpower to hold people who commit crimes accountable for the actions. Affluenza and twinkie defenses wouldnt cut it in my society. Your ass would be going to prison or being put to death depending on your crime(s). In other words, once people know there are real consequences for their actions, the less likely they are to act on them.
exactly

and i refute this idea that without government we wouldn't have anything to keep snake oil salesmen and usury con artists in check

that is what viable competition is needed for

i don't the government to tell me not to buy from this guy



just a little Caveat emptor - Wikipedia

and an alternative source

are there people who fall for every nigerian email scam and late night infomercial?

apparently so....but not even government can help those folks
 
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Esteban_Villa
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Old
1072 - 11-26-2016, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Captain Tele View Post
exactly

and i refute this idea that without government we wouldn't have anything to keep snake oil salesmen and usury con artists in check

that is what viable competition is needed for

i don't the government to tell me not to buy from this guy



just a little Caveat emptor - Wikipedia

and an alternative source

are there people who fall for every nigerian email scam and late night infomercial?

apparently so....but not even government can help those folks
fun fact:

the snake oil guy was fined not for his claims about it's medicinal value, but for selling a product that didn't have snake oil in it.
 
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Captain Tele
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Old
1073 - 11-26-2016, 06:07 PM
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lol

i was going to say not paying his taxes

a scam is only a scam if uncle sam doesn't get his cut

be it drugs, medicine, or investments

people wonder why sec couldn't find anything fishy about bernard madoff despite all the whistle blowing

Quote:
Stock broker, investment adviser, financier, former chairman of NASDAQ
Bernard Madoff - Wikipedia

i say there wasn't anything fishy......he just wasn't too big to fail like NASDAQ
 
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Last edited by Captain Tele; 11-26-2016 at 06:10 PM.
-SS-
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Old
1074 - 11-26-2016, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Captain Tele View Post
exactly

and i refute this idea that without government we wouldn't have anything to keep snake oil salesmen and usury con artists in check

that is what viable competition is needed for

i don't the government to tell me not to buy from this guy



just a little Caveat emptor - Wikipedia

and an alternative source

are there people who fall for every nigerian email scam and late night infomercial?

apparently so....but not even government can help those folks
On point.

I understand the need to have a gvt that sets guidelines for businesses to operate (I am torn on monopolies -one hand: freedom / liberty v. other hand: stifles markets and is a barrier to entry), but at the same time, I dont need them to manage my decisions. Market forces can easily put ****ty / shady businesses to the torch as word gets out or put on trial through the courts.

But somewhere along the line, we cant protect everyone, especially from themselves. They are going to have to be responsible for the decisions they make. Want to buy something? Research it first before you buy, including signing any contract.

Get back to the basics, first one being: with freedom comes responsibility.
 
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Captain Tele
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Old
1075 - 11-26-2016, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by -SS- View Post
On point.

I understand the need to have a gvt that sets guidelines for businesses to operate (I am torn on monopolies -one hand: freedom / liberty v. other hand: stifles markets and is a barrier to entry), but at the same time, I dont need them to manage my decisions. Market forces can easily put ****ty / shady businesses to the torch as word gets out or put on trial through the courts.

But somewhere along the line, we cant protect everyone, especially from themselves. They are going to have to be responsible for the decisions they make. Want to buy something? Research it first before you buy, including signing any contract.

Get back to the basics, first one being: with freedom comes responsibility.
exactly my thoughts....i used to really worry about the monopoly issue

until i realized that meddling often further establishes them

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C4gRRk2i-M

this really was ron paul at his prime.

at&t and standard oil were fun examples.....but pretty useless and futile attempts compared to promoting viable market competition against them (the last thing the gubmt truly wants because lobbying kickbacks tie to profitability and market exploitation)
 
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Last edited by Captain Tele; 11-26-2016 at 06:25 PM.
Odio
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Old
1076 - 11-26-2016, 06:25 PM
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.
 
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Captain Tele
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Old
1077 - 11-26-2016, 06:29 PM
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regulation today is all about feeding the swamp

Leaked Speech Excerpts Show a Hillary Clinton at Ease With Wall Street

making rules so that others can't compete against those government sponsored enterprises who really fund you and those you truly represent

Obama Sets New Record For Regulations ***8211; 81,640 Pages In 2016

and represented well they are
 
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Kerosene31
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Old
1078 - 11-26-2016, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -SS- View Post
I am very much in line with minarchism -the nightwatchman State. As I've said before, we do need some gvt in order to function as a viable society. The equation and disagreement always boils down to how much. As younger generations are being brainwashed into accepting the Nanny State, the worse the future will be where it becomes acceptable to give away our Liberties and Freedoms to the State, which is the antithesis to what this Nation was founded on. To date, we have been unable to find a better form of gvt. Communism / Socialism showed its true face by murdering ~100 million people, so yeah, I distrust the power of any State.

The inherent flaw with a capitalist society is the fact that there will be winners and losers, which also applies to amassing wealth. In a free society, it also offers the best opportunity to create upward mobility economically. I believe the key to allaying your fears is a society that actually prosecutes corruption without any mercy. So imo, while the potential to fill the gap you worry over is there, a just society willing to prosecute would mitigate it.

This is where I believe that balance can be achieved, but its going to take willpower to hold people who commit crimes accountable for the actions. Affluenza and twinkie defenses wouldnt cut it in my society. Your ass would be going to prison or being put to death depending on your crime(s). In other words, once people know there are real consequences for their actions, the less likely they are to act on them.
The extreme right wants the nanny state just as much as the extreme left, maybe more.

The bible thumping right (and don't kid yourself, that's who helped put Trump over the top) wants nothing more than a christian theocracy where the state determines what is right or wrong to put in our bodies, etc. They are just as scary as those who want to limit how much sugar we can have.

The monopoly is one thing that must be broken up by the state. Once a company becomes a monopoly, they only act to protect their monopolistic powers. Consumers lose the power to choose, as the barriers to competition become so great as to prevent any competition.
 
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Captain Tele
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Old
1079 - 11-26-2016, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Kerosene31 View Post
The extreme right wants the nanny state just as much as the extreme left, maybe more.

The bible thumping right (and don't kid yourself, that's who helped put Trump over the top) wants nothing more than a christian theocracy where the state determines what is right or wrong to put in our bodies, etc. They are just as scary as those who want to limit how much sugar we can have.

The monopoly is one thing that must be broken up by the state. Once a company becomes a monopoly, they only act to protect their monopolistic powers. Consumers lose the power to choose, as the barriers to competition become so great as to prevent any competition.
meh....

Utah the Mormon Vote for McMullin | Commonweal Magazine

they had even mcmuffin to rally their crazy behind imo

and the state can't break up monopolies when it is too busy regulating who can and can't compete against the status quo. who can and can't legally compete with any antitrust.

standard oil

Exxon-Mobil $82B deal done after FTC approval - Nov. 30, 1999

back again

at&t



better than ever

AT&T to buy Verizon territories, affecting 1M subscribers

getting better by the day

so much for them doing anything that a walmart phone plan couldn't and didn't do better

markets can't be regulated by those who are the biggest benefactors of its obvious exploitation

well, not successfully, or ethically, as is evident by the garbage bag we call our economy today
 
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Last edited by Captain Tele; 11-26-2016 at 07:04 PM.
Esteban_Villa
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Old
1080 - 11-26-2016, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Kerosene31 View Post
The bible thumping right (and don't kid yourself, that's who helped put Trump over the top) wants nothing more than a christian theocracy where the state determines what is right or wrong to put in our bodies, etc. They are just as scary as those who want to limit how much sugar we can have.
I wouldn't say the bible thumping right pushed Trump 'the ***** Grabber' over the top. More like the blue union guys in the Great Lakes area that was tired of hearing the same **** and have nothing to lose by giving Trump a chance.

But yeah, the moral control via state people are out there. Morality is a funny thing, and micromanagers don't like people making their own choices in the first place. That's where the Goldwater/Reagan divide in the 80s was so big for the Republicans...Libertarian ideals were kicked to the curb from the party except in small strongholds (the Pauls). The internet, with it's ability to magnify freedom of speech, has brought it back into vogue.
 
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