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Ixiterra
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Old
48761 - 10-07-2017, 07:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -SS- View Post
TRANSLATION: I'm too stupid and chicken**** to offer an explanation to 'trickle down' economics and will hide behind deflection instead. As long as the tax system isn't about 'equality of outcomes', then I'm against it because others who have more isnt fair.
Trickle-down economics is a dead simple theory, why do you need someone to explain it to you to have a conversation? Just so you can continue on presuming the stupidity of those who think it's an inane demand?

What isn't fair in a democracy is not that others have more, it's that a dollar is worth more than a vote. Politicians are elected to represent the people, but the current system represents special interests far and away more than the people as a whole. You can see this in virtually every kind of legislation. Corporatocracy, plutocracy, crony capitalism, whatever you want to call it - it isn't democracy.

Giving the wealthiest of wealthy more money does not typically produce much economic growth - there are plenty of papers on this if you'd like to do some research for yourself. Instead, they just end up controlling a larger share of the economy. You're not out to own more "stuff" at the top, you're out to gain more power which our system easily allows you to do.

This, I think, will effectively eventually lead to corporations controlling the world. And they are trying - one of the big reasons I liked Trump was because he was against the TPP. My ****ing god what a rights-stripping corporation takeover attempt that piece of **** was. And written in secret of course, because the public can't be a party to the conversation of taking their rights away.

Quote:
Now that we have established that all of you are ignorant and dont understand what fairness actually is, perhaps you can redeem yourself by offering what your ideal system is instead of crying about that which you have no grasp of?
Fairness in a democracy is one person one vote, not one dollar one vote. Remove money from politics - lol. Tax the wealthy a lot - definitely not ideal because a smaller government is a better government, but it is somewhat of a stopgap. Alternatively, find a way to distribute the growth of the economy to all citizens more or less equally. Communism! you might say. Except virtually all growth in the economy goes to Wall Street or London like leeches when they produce absolutely nothing of value except digital zeroes. The productivity of the people is sapped away by these leeches and it shows in the widening wealth gap.

Care to discuss civilly?
 
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blackpeople
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Old
48762 - 10-07-2017, 07:50
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ss is a shill partisan ****** ****
 
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BeLiaL
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Old
48763 - 10-07-2017, 08:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixiterra View Post
Care to discuss civilly?
The answer to that, of course, is no. There are probably 5 people on this entire forum, on any "side", which are up for open, honest discussion.

I used to think most of the posters here were being intentional when seeing things only through partisan goggles or strawman-ing arguments--i.e., trolling. I don't really believe that's the case for the majority, though. Instead it is a microcosm of extremists on either side, who can't see the world in anything but "right" or "left". After all, only in a place like this would someone like me, who:

voted for Trump
thinks the welfare system sucks
owns firearms and supports the 2nd amendment
is anti-abortion
is religious

be considered a "leftist", simply because I disagree with some of the ways in which the "right" wants to do things, and because I also think that we, as a society, should try to help the less fortunate through some means of social support, as well as thinking everyone is entitled to a basic level of healthcare.
 
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chaiwalla
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Old
48764 - 10-07-2017, 08:37
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leftist heroes
 
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blackpeople
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Old
48765 - 10-07-2017, 08:39
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hey look a Hillary post again
 
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chaiwalla
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Old
48766 - 10-07-2017, 08:54
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https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-hu...-idUKKBN1CB0XG

***8220;This proposal is a laughing stock around Europe,***8221; Orban said, adding the Commission***8217;s bureaucrats were doing Soros***8217; bidding. ***8220;It reeks of a political inception. It is so ridiculous there is nothing we can actually do about it.***8221;

lol soros u gonna close soon this guy cant even influence hungary



trump/putin/orban/pence 2020
 
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ArakAtak
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Old
48767 - 10-07-2017, 08:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeLiaL View Post
voted for Trump
thinks the welfare system sucks
owns firearms and supports the 2nd amendment
is anti-abortion
is religious

...because I also think that we, as a society, should try to help the less fortunate through some means of social support
and yet you don't think women should have the right to terminate unwanted pregnancies, instead forcing them to bring an unwanted child into the world which other people will inevitably end up supporting. It must be nice to be able to spend other peoples money like that
 
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BeLiaL
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Old
48768 - 10-07-2017, 09:06
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Originally Posted by ArakAtak View Post
and yet you don't think women should have the right to terminate unwanted pregnancies, instead forcing them to bring an unwanted child into the world which other people will inevitably end up supporting. It must be nice to be able to spend other peoples money like that
yes, because i consider a fetus to be alive at some point

i am also against people murdering their elderly parents or disabled children, even though that costs money to take care of them
 
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ArakAtak
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Old
48769 - 10-07-2017, 09:09
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brain cells are alive too, and yet we come here
 
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Ixiterra
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Old
48770 - 10-07-2017, 09:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeLiaL View Post
yes, because i consider a fetus to be alive at some point

i am also against people murdering their elderly parents or disabled children, even though that costs money to take care of them
what about killing people in the middle east for oil?
 
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DC.
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Old
48771 - 10-07-2017, 09:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC. View Post
SS do you have any reputable sources that say trickle down has overall been good?
??????????

lol @ cael

hi cael how r u dood
 
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Last edited by DC.; 10-07-2017 at 09:31..
samUwell
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Old
48772 - 10-07-2017, 10:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixiterra View Post
Trickle-down economics is a dead simple theory, why do you need someone to explain it to you to have a conversation? Just so you can continue on presuming the stupidity of those who think it's an inane demand?

What isn't fair in a democracy is not that others have more, it's that a dollar is worth more than a vote. Politicians are elected to represent the people, but the current system represents special interests far and away more than the people as a whole. You can see this in virtually every kind of legislation. Corporatocracy, plutocracy, crony capitalism, whatever you want to call it - it isn't democracy.
I believe the above is accepted as truth by most of the people on this board. No post that i have read on here would say they prefer the system we currently have to something that allows more freedom for the people, except for Absent and the others that prefer to live in a command economy, ruled by the overlords in the central planning department.

In the past, i have posted the links for a citizen-funded bill, Citizens United (albeit, even if it was doomed to fail, it was a good start) that would remove the ability for corporations and UNIONS from donating to politicians under the guise of, "money is 'free-speech'" for corporations, which we all know is total crap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixiterra
Giving the wealthiest of wealthy more money does not typically produce much economic growth - there are plenty of papers on this if you'd like to do some research for yourself. Instead, they just end up controlling a larger share of the economy. You're not out to own more "stuff" at the top, you're out to gain more power which our system easily allows you to do.
The problem with saying the above is that there are soooo many aspects of the economy that are constantly changing that it is basically impossible to say that '"giving the wealthy more of their money" instead of forcibly removing it and giving it to people who produce nothing, "does not typicallyproduce much economic growth."'

Now, I will freely admit, as I have numerous times in the past, that the .00567% of the wealthy do not produce or purchase anything - essentially are a zero-sum game in the grand scheme of economics - while it's the 2%ers and the 1%ers that are overtaxed, work long and hard for their money and buy all kinds of useless **** that keeps the economy going. But getting the politicians to admit that the 1 & 2%ers are the cornerstone of any economy, especially when they frequently have their .00567%ers get on their soapbox in front of the media, and demand that taxes be raised on the 1%, as we just saw yesterday or the day before, is political suicide. The .00567% are trying to destroy the 1% as they view them as a direct threat to their empire.
“Most of us have no sympathy with the rich idler who spends his life in pleasure without ever doing any work. But even he fulfills a function in the life of the social organism. He sets an example of luxury that awakens in the multitude a consciousness of new needs and gives industry the incentive to fulfill them.”
***8213; Ludwig von Mises, Liberalism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixiterra
This, I think, will effectively eventually lead to corporations controlling the world. And they are trying - one of the big reasons I liked Trump was because he was against the TPP. My ****ing god what a rights-stripping corporation takeover attempt that piece of **** was. And written in secret of course, because the public can't be a party to the conversation of taking their rights away.
Agreed with the above, even though I did not vote for El Trumpo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixiterra
Fairness in a democracy is one person one vote, not one dollar one vote. Remove money from politics - lol. Tax the wealthy a lot - definitely not ideal because a smaller government is a better government, but it is somewhat of a stopgap. Alternatively, find a way to distribute the growth of the economy to all citizens more or less equally. Communism! you might say. Except virtually all growth in the economy goes to Wall Street or London like leeches when they produce absolutely nothing of value except digital zeroes. The productivity of the people is sapped away by these leeches and it shows in the widening wealth gap.
Sorry for the quotes - rereading some Ludwig von Mises.
The main propaganda trick of supporters of the allegedly "progressive" policy of government control is to blame capitalism for all that is unsatisfactory in present-day conditions and to extol the blessings of socialism. They have never attempted to prove their fallacious dogmas, all they did was to call their adversaries names and cast suspicion upon their motives. And, unfortunately, the average citizen cannot see through these stratagems. The liars must be afraid of the truth and are therefore driven to suppress its pronouncement.
- Ludwig von Mises
What pushes the masses into the camp of socialism is, even more than the illusion that socialism will make them richer, the expectation that it will curb all those who are better than they themselves are.
- Ludwig von Mises
 
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JuggerNaught
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Old
48773 - 10-07-2017, 10:19
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people still believe in trickle down economics?
 
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SuperTrap
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Old
48774 - 10-07-2017, 10:30
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Originally Posted by MC Hamster View Post
really? You're even dumber than I thought.

Trump is:
* rich (by 'most people' standards)
* an egomaniac.
* utterly without ethics.

That right there basically boils down to a guy who's going to do everything he can to benefit himself, and by extension, the rich. The whole 'eliminate estate tax' is probably the most obvious one out there.

Trump was a fantastic option for the super-rich. Probably the best since Reagan himself, maybe even longer. You bought the rhetoric, not the reality.
I thought stupid unemployed fly over rednecks elected Trump. Get your story straight
 
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SuperTrap
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Old
48775 - 10-07-2017, 10:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phaytal View Post
Scaling back affordable and or free birth control is the dumbest possible thing the government could possibly do.

Colorado's Effort Against Teenage Pregnancies Is a Startling Success - NYTimes.com

It's a long term proven fact that access to cheap / free birth control lowers teen / poor pregnancies, which in turn lowers both abortion rates and government assistance payouts.

Getting rid of it is asinine. This is the furthest from MAGA. It's retarded.
Ideological argument. Be responsible and quit relying on the gov to steer your life
 
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SuperTrap
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Old
48776 - 10-07-2017, 10:35
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also don't forget russia elected Trump
 
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buize
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Old
48777 - 10-07-2017, 10:42
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Ixiterra
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Old
48778 - 10-07-2017, 10:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samUwell View Post
The problem with saying the above is that there are soooo many aspects of the economy that are constantly changing that it is basically impossible to say that '"giving the wealthy more of their money" instead of forcibly removing it and giving it to people who produce nothing, "does not typicallyproduce much economic growth."'
The general idea is that demand-side economics drives the economy. Most people do not produce nothing, that is a small subset of the population. Yes, there are a lot of factors at play, and I don't particularly support the government taxing the rich more and then turning it into bloatware services. I support more of a monetarist Friedman type theory of helicopter money. In the absence of that, taxing the rich more as they squeeze the middle and lower classes will become necessary because more and more people will not be able to afford basic goods and services. Especially with more automation on the horizon.

Quote:
Sorry for the quotes - rereading some Ludwig von Mises.
The main propaganda trick of supporters of the allegedly "progressive" policy of government control is to blame capitalism for all that is unsatisfactory in present-day conditions and to extol the blessings of socialism. They have never attempted to prove their fallacious dogmas, all they did was to call their adversaries names and cast suspicion upon their motives. And, unfortunately, the average citizen cannot see through these stratagems. The liars must be afraid of the truth and are therefore driven to suppress its pronouncement.
- Ludwig von Mises
What pushes the masses into the camp of socialism is, even more than the illusion that socialism will make them richer, the expectation that it will curb all those who are better than they themselves are.
- Ludwig von Mises
I don't blame capitalism, I blame primarily the banking/currency system. There are varying levels of socialism that are present in all first world economies - you need to find a happy medium. Mises is crap, by the way. Hayek is much more prolific.
 
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SuperTrap
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Old
48779 - 10-07-2017, 11:01
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****. Ban cars

Man detained after vehicle rams into crowd outside London museum, several injured | Fox News
 
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SuperTrap
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Old
48780 - 10-07-2017, 11:09
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Originally Posted by BeLiaL View Post

be considered a "leftist", simply because I disagree with some of the ways in which the "right" wants to do things, and because I also think that we, as a society, should try to help the less fortunate through some means of social support, as well as thinking everyone is entitled to a basic level of healthcare.

See that makes you a left fag. The right disagree with your assumption that the gov owes everyone free ****. Someone has to pay. You are asking Americans to forfeit the meager pay they get just to spread the wealth to lazy ******s and illegal mexicans.. not to mention the 56% refugee welfare usage


ignorant wretch
 
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