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spockhammer
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41 - 05-21-2017, 09:00 PM
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idk i thot it was pessimistic here

Quote:
and imo tribes is an impossible thing to get right in this day and age, because of conflicting goals that are incompatible with each other
because the truth is if you make a game that has fun jet pack/skiing/disc/agility

then uve captured the entire tribes game

but this keep it simple stupid style of game design has so much conflicting ideology into it we've gone straight into history denial and revisionism and that is so ****ed idk wtf to say other than back to basics.

tribes 1 with better graphics. it started it all, there is no drama with this unless its made up drama.
 
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42 - 05-22-2017, 08:50 PM
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great p0st gr00ve
 
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spockhammer
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43 - 05-22-2017, 11:39 PM
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don't settle for less than you're worth .
 
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Groove
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44 - 05-23-2017, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by spockhammer View Post
idk i thot it was pessimistic here



because the truth is if you make a game that has fun jet pack/skiing/disc/agility

then uve captured the entire tribes game

but this keep it simple stupid style of game design has so much conflicting ideology into it we've gone straight into history denial and revisionism and that is so ****ed idk wtf to say other than back to basics.

tribes 1 with better graphics. it started it all, there is no drama with this unless its made up drama.
ur right, im pretty skeptical at this point

dont get me wrong, T1 with better graphics would be great but i dont think it would be a commercial success

and there are a lot of people that think t1 is 'janky', imo Mabel has tried to address some of that by changing various mechanics (ski, chain, disc, gren launcher... ok pretty much everything?) but i dont think the game itself is any less 'janky' its just 'janky' in different ways

like, sure skiing has a lower skill ceiling (imo) and is much easier to pick up for newbs

on the other hand it has some illogical nuances (like letting off W when ur jetting above a certain speed) and then the jump is affected so people ***** about feeling like they can't dodge ground pounds with jumps the same way they did in previous games

and chain shoots faster but does less damage and has a bunch of tacked on mechanics like reload, fast first bullet, then a long spinup, then the rest of your clip

and the end result is pretty much exactly the same - time to kill is pretty much identical, chain is still as powerful if not more in its current state

so imo it works out to be the same end result but with a bunch of very confusing, un-intuitive mechanics (like wtf kind of weapon fires one bullet, then waits for a while, then fires an entire clip)



gren launcher i dont get the 3 shot clip, people spend so little time on the ground in midair that you need as much ability to ground pound them in that short time that you can get, or else the most logical weapon to use nearly all the time is chain

then u have 3 kinds of e-packs, 3 types of shield packs, so many different turret types

imo the game is just as 'janky' if not more than t1 was in terms of over-complicating things that should be simple
 
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TypicallyTerrible
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45 - 05-23-2017, 05:17 PM
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then u have 3 kinds of e-packs, 3 types of shield packs, so many different turret types
Gotta have something to grind and unlock. It's 2017 afterall.

 
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46 - 05-23-2017, 05:32 PM
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they have 3 different types of energy packs and shield packs?? how do they function differently??

have they tried making all the projectiles much slower but slightly stronger to increase the lead or has that not been tested???
 
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Groove
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47 - 05-23-2017, 06:27 PM
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wait is it more now? 2 slots, and 3 options in each slot for epack (Kinetic)

Energy Regen, Boost, Blink in slot 1

Ground Regen, Vertical Boost, Weaponry (nrg weapons use less nrg) in slot 2

so in base when you go to scavenge an epack from a corpse, it will be any of these possible combos:

1) Energy Regen + Ground Regen
2) Energy Regen + Vertical Boost
3) Energy Regen + Weaponry
4) Boost + Ground Regen
5) Boost + Vertical Boost
6) Boost + Weaponry
7) Blink + Ground Regen
8) Blink + Vertical Boost
9) Blink + Weaponry

and shield (Aegis) is

1) Active Shield + No Bleed
2) Active Shield + Resilience
3) Shield Capacitor + No Bleed
4) Shield Capacitor + Resilience

ammo pack has 2x2 combos for 4
stealth pack has 2x2 combos for 4

and then there's engineer and probably some other ****

so like 20+ pack combos to choose from in a menu or scavenge from a corpse
 
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Last edited by Groove; 05-23-2017 at 06:32 PM.
DC.
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48 - 05-24-2017, 09:49 PM
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how r u liking the game groove?
 
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Groove
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49 - 05-24-2017, 10:15 PM
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i havent really played enough to form a real opinion but overall it feels like it has a lot of potential

like the bones are there

we'll see how its fleshed out

stork seems to dig it

i hope they do a fair bit of optimization cuz i dont find it runs great on older hardware without making it look like hot garbage

but that's gaming in this day and age, you dont really optimize you just tell people to buy new videocards
 
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DC.
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50 - 05-25-2017, 04:25 PM
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9 different epacks seem lame, community seems to be very small??????????? u think it will grow or its been pretty stable??
 
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Groove
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51 - 05-25-2017, 07:27 PM
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i think the 25 packs are stupid but its just a feature creep thing that coders do these days

like, it doesn't exactly change the game... but thats why it shouldn't exist

even in UI design, every button you add you have to ask yourself whether having that option/button/variant adds enough to justify the added complication. your program is going to have a ton of options - but do you give a button for everything and have a menu with 25 options, or do you whittle that down to 4-5 important ones

you dont really lose anything of value by cutting it down to 2 epacks (standard and boost pack, **** blink its another pointless knob)

but you gain simplicity and ease of finding the 'right' pack on your enemies body, and you only have to balance 5 elements not 25

people still to this day complain about all the disc variants in T:A and Archetype is making the exact same mistake as Hi-rez did except with packs instead of weapons

and mabel blows it off like 'ah who cares, it doesn't affect gameplay that much'

good. if it doesn't affect gameplay, get rid of it.
 
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T2-JesusChrist
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52 - 05-25-2017, 07:46 PM
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All of these different packs and stuff is something that mods from tribes 2 already have
 
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Groove
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53 - 05-25-2017, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by T2-JesusChrist View Post
All of these different packs and stuff is something that mods from tribes 2 already have
im sure there are 100 different variations of backpacks over the years of modding

what im saying is you dont put all of them into a new game

im saying that they could reduce the number of packs from 25 to 5 without changing the game in any measurable way

and reduce menu clutter, confusion, and make balancing easier

the simplicity of finding the 'right' pack in the field alone justifies it imo

i dont think anyone later on will say 'oh man i really miss that one epack that gave u the weaponry perk' or 'oh man, this game sucks without the blink pack'
 
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T2-JesusChrist
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54 - 05-25-2017, 08:03 PM
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I didn't say that midair needs to have those, just that I recognize a lot of stuff in midair from t2. The mod BIOMod from t2 has a lot of similar packs that midair has, and I'm wondering if the devs were inspired by that.
 
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Groove
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55 - 05-25-2017, 08:45 PM
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ah ok sorry then i just ranted again for no reason lol

i think they're def taking little ideas from all the tribes games and even non tribes games, so yeah maybe

its still alpha/beta, there's nothing wrong with trying stuff which is why i dont really care all that much about having two dozen packs right now or a lot of other little things i dont dig

i just hope later on they dial in which ones people use and don't and cut it down a lot

i think they've done a pretty good job with the LT fundamentals, lights alone 1v1 are pretty balanced, im just afraid base will end up with so much extra fluff that it will end up like rock paper scissors where you'll need to use X weapon against Y pack instead of having all weapons and classes fairly balanced (which gets harder the more stuff they add)
 
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A3YROldGirl
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56 - 07-11-2017, 05:22 PM
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I see what yr saying groove. Simplicity is the key to finding balance... Once balanced then careful introduction of a few variations could be brought in during Beta (if actually desired).
 
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S_hift
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57 - 07-12-2017, 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by A3YROldGirl View Post
I see what yr saying groove. Simplicity is the key to finding balance... Once balanced then careful introduction of a few variations could be brought in during Beta (if actually desired).
I'm sure that this is how the general T1 player base of mid air feels. Thanks for phrasing it in such a way. I couldn't express it properly cause all that would come out is "blink is gay" or "this pack is kinda lame"

I think I'm going to play more Tribes instead of midair. I gave it a chance, like I really did. People are just too competitive even though its only in the early stages of development. It doesn't make sense to me. Why host private games when there is hardly a player base?

Mid Air is a really great game in its own aspect, but it tries so hard to be like Tribes, yet denies any and all resemblance. Like a disgruntled bus driver who hates his job, do you or do you not want to be a ****ing bus driver? Do you or do you not want to be Tribes? Its a pretty ****ing straightforward question that I'm always asking with every remake.
 
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DC.
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58 - 07-12-2017, 09:17 PM
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groove wat do u see as the growth potential for the player base in ur opinion???
 
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Groove
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59 - 07-13-2017, 04:36 PM
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tbh at this point i kinda think the state of the closed/steam beta will be a seriously determining factor

you really want to flood in enough players to be able to properly test base - but if it isn't at least fairly well-balanced already, we'll probably see the same thing we saw in all the previous milestones - a day or two of 'holy **** this balance is ****ed i dont want to play this' and then back to LT only

i still think they seriously need to re-think the pack system and the shield pack balance as well as just overall light-medium-heavy balance

i've spoken to a lot of midair players who seem to be under the impression that a 'balanced' game means heavy beats medium and light, medium dies to heavy and kills light, light loses to all

that isnt 'balanced' to me. other tribes games, generally a heavy would lose in a one on one duel with a light as long as they werent in a confined space. but in a confined space, heavy would win. that sounds at least vaguely 'balanced' to my ears. not 'it takes 4 lights to kill a heavy because heavies have that much more health'

also, i feel like tribes is a game about freedom and that freedom means that each role should have the ability to affect the game fairly equally, no matter what the opposing team does.

if someone is playing say a 'stealth' role (which btw i think has no place in the game but it was in previous games so apparently we have to put it in), i dont want to have to switch to a medium with a jammer and only use one viable weapon or pack to kill that other person.

that's not freedom to me, in fact, i find that very frustrating. if i'm a light D, i want to light D. forcing me into a role that i hate because if i dont play the scissors to your paper, the balance is totally f'd up - that's not balance to me. that's just a really big game of rock paper scissors

thats sorta what i fear most for the success of base mode midair - it seems like instead of an overall balance where weapons are equal but different (like LT), currently in base, the 'balance' is a rock paper scissors balance where, for example, you're forced to carry blaster at all times because its the only real way to defeat a shielded heavy (or you could directly hit them with 19 discs LOL)

i'd rather not play a game, than be forced to play a role i dont enjoy because of rock-paper-scissors balance
 
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fyr
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60 - 07-13-2017, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by S_hift View Post
I think I'm going to play more Tribes instead of midair. I gave it a chance, like I really did. People are just too competitive even though its only in the early stages of development. It doesn't make sense to me. Why host private games when there is hardly a player base?
They're not private games.... Anyone is free to join a pickup game. It beats for the most part waiting around in a server for people to join. 10 people signup, 10 people play. No wasting time sitting in a server. Some people take it perhaps a tad too seriously but if you didn't take it somewhat serious the games would suck and we'd probably never play midair at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_hift View Post
Mid Air is a really great game in its own aspect, but it tries so hard to be like Tribes, yet denies any and all resemblance. Like a disgruntled bus driver who hates his job, do you or do you not want to be a ****ing bus driver? Do you or do you not want to be Tribes? Its a pretty ****ing straightforward question that I'm always asking with every remake.
I think it's pretty clear the game is trying to be tribes for a modern audience. What makes you say that it's not trying to be tribes?
 
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