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HaPpY
VeteranXV
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Old
1 - 12-11-2013, 07:03 PM
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cuz the other thread title sucks a bag of dicks

update: holyfuk i just won 3 arena game claude real excite!
update: nerd post from other thread for the noobs:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atreides View Post

Card Evaluation!


So how can you tell which cards are good, and which are bad?

As a general rule: A basic card that has no text, should have a Mana cost equal to (Attack+HP)/2. That is the 'Average' baseline.

An example would simply be a card with 3 Attack and 3 HP at a cost of 3 Mana. Or a 4 Mana cost card with 3 Attack and 5HP.

Very few cards are above this average, and the ones that are, are typically 'good' cards (for their cost). The reason why most cards are below average is because additional text on a card, usually comes at the cost of; Attack, Health, or more Mana.

Cards that grant stats to other minions are effectively above average because their Battlecry can be used in the calculation of their budget. If you play a Dark Iron Dwarf; you get a 4/4 for 4, but also grant +2 attack to another minion. Effectively, this card is a 6/4 for 4 Mana, which is well above average. Even if there were no minions to buff, you'd still get an average card. Shattered Sun Cleric and Defender of Argus are also amazing picks for this reason.

Cards that provide an aura or condition so long as they live are usually bad cards. Raid Leader is a 2/2 for 3 Mana, and gives all other minions +1 Attack. It can have above average value, but the minion itself dies incredibly easily, and really can't attack anything without dying. So this minion's best-case scenario is one where you already have a lot of minions on the board - if that's the case it's a "win more" card, and by that token; Any card would likely be just as good. If you're behind; being Stuck with a Raid Leader in your hand ensures you will stay behind.


Trading


As a general rule, you don't ever want to play a card without it costing your opponent a card in the end. Doing this causes you to fall behind in card advantage, and you'll soon notice your opponent has several cards in their hand, while you are down to just 1 or 2. Buff cards can make a single minion really strong. For example a Divine Spirit and Inner Fire can turn a 2/7 Snapjaw into a 14/14. But you've also invested 3 cards into 1 minion. If your opponent simply removes the Snapjaw at the cost of 1 card (let's say Assassinate), then you're effectively down 2 cards. You traded 3 of your cards for 1 of theirs.

Aside from always getting a 1 for 1 trade, or 2 of theirs for one of yours; you also need to consider the value of those cards. There is such a thing as "Trading Up" and "Trading Down".
  • Trading up is simply using your lower cost minion to remove their higher cost minion.
  • Trading down is where you lose your higher cost to their lower cost.
The ability to "Trade Up" in the early game can put your opponent in a position from which they never recover. Some cards have this ability while others do not, and it has a lot to do with the assumption that you will play that card on the turn it can be first played. A Chillwind Yeti for example Is an AMAZING 4 Mana cost card. However, a lot of it's 'amazingness' comes from being played on turn 4 - it loses some of its advantage beyond that turn.

So why is Chillwind Yeti a great minion on Turn 4? Well, it's a 4/5 minion. There is no neutral minion your opponent could have played on turn 3 that could trade into your Yeti 1 for 1. Actually King Mukla and Magma Rager both have 5 attack, but you don't see those cards a lot because they're pretty bad.

So you can play your Yeti without much fear of an immediate unfavorable trade. Your opponent would have to play a SSC, DID or DoA and buff the stats of something else.

Aside from there not being much from Turn 3 that threatens a Yeti on Turn 4; there isn't much on Turn 4 or Turn 5 that can kill it either. In fact, most Turn 4 and Turn 5 cards are 4/4 minions. This allows the Yeti to either kill the opponent's Turn 4 minion and still live... or kill their Turn 5. Either way, you have a very good chance to either; Trade evenly, trade 2 for 1, or trade up - and almost virtually no chance of Trading Down.

It's also worth mentioning that the Yeti's 4 Attack value means it can not be hit by Shadow Word: Pain&Death.

The ability to Trade Up and gain control of the board is why you'll see most people play 3/2 minions on Turn 2. The chance of having a 2/1 played on the first turn is pretty low, so a 3/2 minion on Turn 2 is pretty safe more times than not. This allows you to trade up into most minions played on Turn 3. Where as if you play a 2/3 on Turn two, you run a much lower chance to gain board advantage - and against any enrage minion on Turn 3 you're at a severe disadvantage.

The Turn 2 meta is what makes a Jungle panther a great minion as well. It's a 4/2 with stealth for 3 Mana. It can let you avoid the Turn two/three play, and Trade up with your opponent's Turn 4 play; leaving your turn 4 to face their turn 2 and/or 3, which could be a 2 for 1 in your favor.

There's a lot of factors that really skew this theorycraft; such as spells/AoE removal, but if you're just comparing minion to minion; the probability for success is larger with minions that trade better than the rest. You also can't predict what class you'll face, so it's tough to build around specific counters you may or may not face.

So when you're choosing cards:
  • Does the cost justify the stats?
  • Will the minion immediately die to the minion that was played on the previous turn?
  • Can I trade up or trade 2 for 1 with this minion?


Final note:
A lot of new players like Taunt cards because they believe it offers protection - They don't. Most Taunt cards are bad. Booty Bay Bodyguard? It's a 5/4 for 5 Mana; not only are the stats below average, but it's just going to die to most minions played on Turn 4, because most of those minions have 4 attack.

Players are going to trade minions to gain an advantage on the board. Paying the price in stats for the added effect of Taunting actually puts you at a disadvantage. Of the Neutral cards, Sen'Jin Shieldmasta is the only acceptable taunt minion for the cost. Fen Creeper is alright as well, but by Turn 5 or 6, it probably won't kill anything that costs more than 3 Mana. Defender of Argus can give you Taunt on minions that didn't suck to begin with, AND give them +1/+1, so the value of DoA blows any regular Taunt minion out of the water. Druid is a whole separate issue however. A lot of their taunt mechanics are quite good.

Taunt still serves a function, but it's pretty conditional. You typically want a taunt out if you have:
  • A minion that can draw cards (cult master/buzzard/etc)
  • A minion with an on-turn effect (demolisher/weaponsmith/etc)
  • Scale in damage (frothing berzerker/flesheating ghoul/mana wyrm)
  • An opponent equips a weapon
 
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cheezit
VeteranXV
Old
2 - 12-11-2013, 07:05 PM
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Everybody I know has gotten an invite except me.

 
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HaPpY
VeteranXV
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Old
3 - 12-11-2013, 07:17 PM
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just u wait... maybe santa giv key
 
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arcadus
VeteranXV
Old
4 - 12-11-2013, 07:29 PM
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all u need is a deck w/ these cards and ur good

novice engineer
shattered sun cleric
harvest golem
dark iron dwarf
argent squire
defender of argus
argent commander
azure drake
 
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Fonzie
VeteranX
Old
5 - 12-11-2013, 07:29 PM
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ya im tryna wait to get a key too

im next in line once my friend gets one (if he manages to get another one)

i feel like i need to reach ultimate nerd level and play an online digital card game
 
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1teaminlondon
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Old
6 - 12-11-2013, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arcadus View Post
all u need is a deck w/ these cards and ur good

novice engineer
shattered sun cleric
harvest golem
dark iron dwarf
argent squire
defender of argus
argent commander
azure drake
none of the cards u listed have more then 4 health/toughness

gl with that
 
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Przn
VeteranXV
Old
7 - 12-11-2013, 07:48 PM
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arcadouche just listed all the cards i crafted first.

those are some fkn awesome cards. and show up the most out often in winning decks.

argus, novice engineer, harvester, dark iron, shattered sun are some fkn good cards. make that ****.

dont underestimate novice and harvester of sorrow.

shut ur face fufu u know nothing. ill play that deck almost exactly w/o barely any 4+ toughness creeps and we'll see if u win >50%.
 
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Przn
VeteranXV
Old
8 - 12-11-2013, 07:52 PM
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i also welcome new thread. we should hijack all of gothaggis's 0day OFFICIAL game threads so maybe he'll get some actual work done at 6am instead of trolling kotaku.
 
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Bender
VeteranXV
Old
9 - 12-11-2013, 07:52 PM
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Accepted into the Beta a few days ago. Awesome game.

Got a lvl 27 Druid going so far.

Still get my ass kicked a little more than half the time, but I can make some good plays.

Also got a legendary (Gruul) on my 3rd pack opening
 
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coombz
VeteranXV
Old
10 - 12-11-2013, 07:53 PM
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pretty fitting that HaPpY made this thread

****** game for ******s
 
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1teaminlondon
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Old
11 - 12-11-2013, 07:55 PM
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why u trollin hamed?

add me if you want to lose deverdes#1315
 
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Atreides
VeteranX
Old
12 - 12-11-2013, 07:56 PM
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At first I was like: "All my effort, gone"
But then I was like: "Some of my effort was salvaged! "

I still think The Rock being spoon fed some Chef Boyardee by a model in a ****ty rap video is pretty key tho.
 
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Osiris
VeteranXV
Old
13 - 12-11-2013, 08:09 PM
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santaclaude
 
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Przn
VeteranXV
Old
14 - 12-11-2013, 09:48 PM
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ill add u tonight.

i aint trollin, i love them cards.

happy's lvl 1 priest outdrew the **** out of my mage like 3 games in a row or something. . i also have a ****ty mage deck. ive dropped like 50$ into the game and ive gotten 2 legendaries, already DE'd one, and am 1 HaPpY loss away from DE'ing the other.

blizzard and their ****ing grind.

add me bros, jihad4jesus#1379
 
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Przn
VeteranXV
Old
15 - 12-11-2013, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coombz View Post
pretty fitting that HaPpY made this thread

****** game for ******s
i was shield fagging it up last night.

it was like taking out a troop of foot soldiers as only one turtle.

got rough.
 
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jerry
VeteranXV
Old
16 - 12-11-2013, 09:55 PM
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who the fuk plays card games
 
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Bump
Unregistered
Old
17 - 12-11-2013, 09:57 PM
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SUPERCOMPUTER CLOCKING SO MANY CARDS PER SECOND
 
 
hastie
VeteranX
Old
18 - 12-11-2013, 11:56 PM
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Ihearthu has some pretty good guides up now.

This one is pretty good for arena and helping you pick your class cards:
Vivafringe

Combined with Trumps ranking of the common cards, you should be able to draft a pretty good deck:
Trump's Arena Card Rankings | iHearthU.com - Hearthstone News, Articles, Guides & Community

This one is also pretty good on how you should mulligan your first 3-4 cards when the game starts:
Arena Mulligan Guide | iHearthU.com - Hearthstone News, Articles, Guides & Community

Here's how i've done in arena so far:



Trying to play each class evenly instead of just picking mage. 10 wins last night got me 370 gold and a card pack!
 
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Dutch
VeteranXV
Old
19 - 12-11-2013, 11:57 PM
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i dont get why someone would play this

edit: unless they are asian
 
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Atreides
VeteranX
Old
20 - 12-12-2013, 08:39 AM
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God damn Hastie, use a spreadsheet.



I also try to play each class evenly. And what I've learned is that I need to stop playing rogue with a rush deck.
 
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