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Calx
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141 - 07-03-2011, 10:44 PM
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sounds like you got better, i'd like to see a recent replay too
 
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kazan
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142 - 07-04-2011, 12:09 PM
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Delta Quadrant (7).SC2Replay ZvZ
Backwater Gulch (26).SC2Replay ZvP
The Shattered Temple (34).SC2Replay ZvT

I can still watch and see some **** I did wrong, but overall I think I've improved a lot. ZvT replay, saw starports, assumed banshees went for spire+overseers, didn't really catch the medivacs. I guess he was going to try a massive drop instead of just using it as harass, dumb; and then he just let me pick off 70% of his forces while they were in medivacs.

The toss guy had the drop on me with those VRs, since I was still popping lair, so I couldn't hydra up. Luckily I had some spare queens and kept popping more until I could get hydras out. I was quite surprised to see him get them so soon anyway, considering I blocked a gas for quite some time, and he pulled so many drones to kill my extractors it was ridiculous. Figured if the VRs didn't work, he might go DTs (I was right), so I popped a few Overseers, but never needed them he couldn't push any out before I pretty much cut him off. The colossi made me chuckle, wtf did that come from and why did he even have it?

ZvZ is probably my worst matchup now, mostly because I end up going against a ****ton of 6/9 pools who block me from expanding properly. This guy didn't push as hard as he could have, and I got lucky and got a crawler up in his base and killed his queen with it, which helped give me a larva advantage. He should have pulled drones to kill it too. Once I saw the banelings, I went roaches, I was late on ling speed, but I micro'd his banelings to keep their damaged down as best as possible. From there it was just out-teching him. Since I was pretty sure I had the econ advantage I was pretty aggressive and pushed him a bit. Didn't even get to use those mutas
 
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Last edited by kazan; 07-04-2011 at 12:11 PM.
2good@tribes.com
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143 - 07-04-2011, 01:02 PM
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zvz is so ezzzzz
 
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Mojo616
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144 - 07-04-2011, 04:07 PM
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good lord those guys you played are really bad

your plat/diamond self-assessment is pretty optimistic
 
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2good@tribes.com
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145 - 07-04-2011, 04:49 PM
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OF COURSE THE GUYS HE PLAYS ARE BAD, 98% OF EVERYONE WHO PLAYS THIS GAME IS ****ING TERRIBLE
 
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Shiloh
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146 - 07-04-2011, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 2good@tribes.com View Post
OF COURSE THE GUYS HE PLAYS ARE BAD, 98% OF EVERYONE WHO PLAYS THIS GAME IS ****ING TERRIBLE
thats true for any game or any sport of any kind. god its funny how desperate you are for people to look up to you.
 
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TeckMan
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147 - 07-04-2011, 05:33 PM
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Best advice you will get:

Thinking about strategy and build orders is a joke at your level. Players below diamond are losing 90% of the time because they are too slow. Your APM is a disaster. Like you might need to see a doctor bad. Really bad. How can you be that slow, how old are you? You were floating 3k minerals in the TvZ I watched. You had no units for 10 minutes. You need to stop thinking about high level strategy and build orders and double your APM immediately. You can be the most brilliant player in the world but you cannot execute even a basic strategy without 80 or 90 APM.

You don't need to learn timings, you don't need to refine your build orders. This is like spending time looking at demos for better capping routes when you can't ski down a hill. It is like installing a turbo onto a car that doesn't have tires or a steering wheel. It is like trying to memorize the order of operations when you failed an addition test.

You are slow, too slow to play the game correctly at all. You need to hit 80 APM at an absolute minimum by any means necessary. Spam keys randomly, whatever, but that is your #1 priority.

Until you are playing at a good solid 80+ APM any analysis of why you are losing beyond "I was too slow that game" is pointless and wrong. 100% of your losses you have sustained so far were because of how slow you are and until you realize that you will not improve.

Consider a custom hotkey setup, something is obviously very wrong with how you are interacting with the game based on how clumsy and slow you are.
 
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Calx
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148 - 07-04-2011, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeckMan View Post
Best advice you will get:

Thinking about strategy and build orders is a joke at your level. Players below diamond are losing 90% of the time because they are too slow. Your APM is a disaster. Like you might need to see a doctor bad. Really bad. How can you be that slow, how old are you? You were floating 3k minerals in the TvZ I watched. You had no units for 10 minutes. You need to stop thinking about high level strategy and build orders and double your APM immediately. You can be the most brilliant player in the world but you cannot execute even a basic strategy without 80 or 90 APM.

You don't need to learn timings, you don't need to refine your build orders. This is like spending time looking at demos for better capping routes when you can't ski down a hill. It is like installing a turbo onto a car that doesn't have tires or a steering wheel. It is like trying to memorize the order of operations when you failed an addition test.

You are slow, too slow to play the game correctly at all. You need to hit 80 APM at an absolute minimum by any means necessary. Spam keys randomly, whatever, but that is your #1 priority.

Until you are playing at a good solid 80+ APM any analysis of why you are losing beyond "I was too slow that game" is pointless and wrong. 100% of your losses you have sustained so far were because of how slow you are and until you realize that you will not improve.

Consider a custom hotkey setup, something is obviously very wrong with how you are interacting with the game based on how clumsy and slow you are.
this

i dont think high apm is necessary to play well and i certainly don't think there's a "minimum APM to play good" but low APM severely limits what you can do

i hesitate on telling newer players this because i have no idea how to increase someone's APM without making them hate sc2. it seems to be something people have or don't. none of my friends i've tried to coach to improve enjoy micro challenges.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2good@tribes.com View Post
zvz is so ezzzzz
how do u approach zvz? its my worst matchup (i play random)
 
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Julius
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149 - 07-04-2011, 07:41 PM
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Doing the same build orders/strats over and over will increase your apm, because it almost becomes muscle memory in what you have to do. Once you know it, and have practiced doing it over and over again, you'll only get faster at it.
This is partly why sticking to just 1 strat per match-up for a long time is beneficial. I've heard some of the SC2 coaches like Idra, Machine, & Incontrol all suggest the same thing, but Dark Volcanic thinks it "make me less strategically flexible in mindset", as if you need to be strategically flexible in bronze >_>
 
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kazan
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150 - 07-04-2011, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Julius View Post
Doing the same build orders/strats over and over will increase your apm, because it almost becomes muscle memory in what you have to do. Once you know it, and have practiced doing it over and over again, you'll only get faster at it.
This is partly why sticking to just 1 strat per match-up for a long time is beneficial. I've heard some of the SC2 coaches like Idra, Machine, & Incontrol all suggest the same thing, but Dark Volcanic thinks it "make me less strategically flexible in mindset", as if you need to be strategically flexible in bronze >_>
Meh, I try sticking to one that works. Ice Fisher works, quite well.

I also know those guys were pretty bad, I just picked the three most recent builds against each race opponent, regardless of how I feel I performed.
 
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Last edited by kazan; 07-04-2011 at 08:19 PM.
TeckMan
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151 - 07-04-2011, 09:47 PM
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starcraft is an action game it has a lot more to do with street fighter and quake than poker or chess. the only strategy is in the first 10 minutes or even earlier and revolves completely around cheese builds and defending against them. outside of that it is 100% an action game. zerg is incredibly simple strategically since for the early part it is all reactive and not proactive meaning there is no active decision making. there are actually a lot of strong pressure builds that can be proactive but people consider anything other than droning as hard as possible to be cheese so w/e. fyi droning super hard is its own form of risky all in build.

I know you will focus completely on the latter part of that statement rather than the former and decide that your next step to improve is learning how to beat all the cheese builds not realizing that 80% of what you think is cheese is really not and is totally standard and conservative and you are just losing to it because of how slow you are.

someone as overall bad as you should probably not be playing zerg FYI. you should really play T and learn a simple stim pack timing build and play it all the way to diamond.

not trying to be a dick. just trying to help. you are approaching the game the wrong way if your goal is to improve into a decent player.
 
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kazan
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152 - 07-04-2011, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeckMan View Post
starcraft is an action game it has a lot more to do with street fighter and quake than poker or chess. the only strategy is in the first 10 minutes or even earlier and revolves completely around cheese builds and defending against them. outside of that it is 100% an action game. zerg is incredibly simple strategically since for the early part it is all reactive and not proactive meaning there is no active decision making. there are actually a lot of strong pressure builds that can be proactive but people consider anything other than droning as hard as possible to be cheese so w/e. fyi droning super hard is its own form of risky all in build.

I know you will focus completely on the latter part of that statement rather than the former and decide that your next step to improve is learning how to beat all the cheese builds not realizing that 80% of what you think is cheese is really not and is totally standard and conservative and you are just losing to it because of how slow you are.

someone as overall bad as you should probably not be playing zerg FYI. you should really play T and learn a simple stim pack timing build and play it all the way to diamond.

not trying to be a dick. just trying to help. you are approaching the game the wrong way if your goal is to improve into a decent player.
I'm trying to improve to the point where I know I am at my best, regardless if I'm losing or not. Not really concerned with if I make it to diamond or plat, I just know that how I play, or was playing, is not the best I can play at.

I also don't think that APM is everything, and I really think that anything below plat APM probably doesn't matter as much as you think it does.

I can pump APM out a lot if need be, and I get the idea behind constantly doing **** to make yourself more alert and readily reactive and whatnot. I probably should be rebinding some of my hotkeys, but for the time being the only thing I find myself hanging on are overlords at times, and I'll misclick crawler instead of evo. So, V binds, really.
 
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Last edited by kazan; 07-04-2011 at 10:33 PM.
TeckMan
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153 - 07-04-2011, 10:32 PM
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well I guess you are hopeless then

keep trying to figure out the best build that you will never execute correctly

it actually matters much more at lower leagues where you can just overwhelm people with extremely simple strategies.
 
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TeckMan
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154 - 07-04-2011, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Volcanic View Post
I can pump APM out a lot if need be, and I get the idea behind constantly doing **** to make yourself more alert and readily reactive and whatnot. I probably should be rebinding some of my hotkeys, but for the time being the only thing I find myself hanging on are overlords at times, and I'll misclick crawler instead of evo. So, V binds, really.
no you can't pump out a lot of APM if need be that's pretty obvious. you don't realize how bad it is to have 3k minerals do you?

you are incredibly arrogant.
 
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kazan
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155 - 07-04-2011, 11:58 PM
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I do realize. I also realize that I'm not playing ideally and that when pressured, I play better. I also said exactly what you're saying in chat last night, at this point, APM is my biggest issue. But APM doesn't spend minerals. Good play spends minerals, properly.
 
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2good@tribes.com
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156 - 07-05-2011, 08:01 AM
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teckman dont waste your time helping these fools, they're all terrible and get all pissy when you tell them what they do wrong.

and if u have less than 80-90 APM that is ****ing LMFAO imo. I played at 140-160 and that isn't even nearly enough to do all the things you want to be doing.

Shiloh **** you scrub i dont even play the game anymore, i dont want you raging nerds to look up to me, i just enjoy trolling newbies, whats wrong with that?
 
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Veniggs
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157 - 07-05-2011, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Dark Volcanic View Post
I do realize. I also realize that I'm not playing ideally and that when pressured, I play better. I also said exactly what you're saying in chat last night, at this point, APM is my biggest issue. But APM doesn't spend minerals. Good play spends minerals, properly.
good play will lead to having more APM. for instance, executing a build well -> thinking ahead in your build -> waiting to make moves (eg spending money, xfering drones) before it's possible -> spending resources/larvae/drones/whatever as soon as possible -> hopefully producing more units/upgrades than your opponent and/or you hit the timing you want, whatever -> more apm.
 
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Veniggs
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158 - 07-05-2011, 01:52 PM
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asdfa
 
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Ben Dover
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159 - 07-06-2011, 03:41 AM
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So much nerdrage in this thread.
 
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2good@tribes.com
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160 - 07-06-2011, 12:58 PM
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yes
 
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