So I'm going to try again, and not suck this time. by kazan - Page 12 - TribalWar Forums
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2good@tribes.com
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221 - 07-26-2011, 15:29
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zvz is fairly easy, just need to have good scouting like i always stress. Certain openings require little tweaks here and there but all in all this is how i approach it.

on large maps go FE into lair/spines to muta. from there u can pretty do anything and win as long as ur mutas do the damage that they need to do.

on small/normal maps, 14/14 speedling expand into a 8-10roach speedling all in, and then drone depending how much damage u do (very similar to the roach/speedling all in vs toss 3g exp) notes: cut drones if he goes quick banes and drop ur roach earlier than normal. do not build any zerglings until u know his zerglings are coming towards your base (this way u have 1-2 more drones consistantly mining) if he goes 1 base roach u mass zerglings and counter the second he moves out and produce roaches while u run by.

my average zvz match is 8-10 mins and was definitely my best MU. if any of u guys are catz fanbois just know i smacked him silly 5/5 times lul, 2ez.
 
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Calx
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222 - 07-27-2011, 14:56
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ty
 
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Calx
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223 - 07-27-2011, 15:10
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since this thread inspired me to start playing 1v1 again i thought it would be nice to post my own replays since volcanic and 2good have as well so we can all see where we're at, here's a pvt and two pvz i just played yesterday

pvz.SC2Replay
pvz2.SC2Replay
pvt.SC2Replay

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulmezick View Post
Hadn't done a 1v1 since at least 3 months ago. I was decent when I played, I think around 2100 pt diamond prior to master. Played one 1v1 a few days ago, lost, got placed in master. How does that **** work?
your "matchmaking rating" (MMR) was high enough to be in master since you worked through diamond but the system hadn't promoted you yet - promotions are random, they only "evaluate your league" randomly it seems

but at the beginning of a new season, the placement match auto-evaluates you based on your previous mmr
 
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Last edited by Calx; 07-27-2011 at 15:19..
2good@tribes.com
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224 - 07-27-2011, 15:30
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I'll check em out when i got time and tell you all the things you're terrible at, but will leave out the things ur good at since having an ego in this game only makes u worse.
 
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Calx
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225 - 07-27-2011, 15:41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2good@tribes.com View Post
I'll check em out when i got time and tell you all the things you're terrible at, but will leave out the things ur good at since having an ego in this game only makes u worse.
i watched em myself and i watch my losses as well, usually i can tell what mistakes i made and/or why i won, i just posted replays so we can all have an idea of where eachother is at since this thread is mostly trash talk instead of constructive anyway
 
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2good@tribes.com
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226 - 07-27-2011, 16:07
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Did you watch my replays? Do you believe that you are as good as i was??
 
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Calx
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227 - 07-27-2011, 17:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2good@tribes.com View Post
Did you watch my replays? Do you believe that you are as good as i was??
no im pretty sloppy in those replays i posted, the ones u posted were good, i believe u played/beat gm's
 
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Julius
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228 - 07-27-2011, 23:45
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Game 1 your attack was extremely slow. You're hitting with a 1 base timing when other Protoss are attacking with a 2 base 6-7 gate timing. Your force fields also leave much to be desired. You didn't even spend a decent bit of your sentry energy despite having holes in your ff wall and you didn't FF his ramp.
Overall I just think there are much better Protoss all-in's to do if you're determined to do one.

Game 2, I dunno what to say about this. Is this really diamond level play? The zerg had 40 drones at the 20 minute mark, and it looked like you were running around with your head cut off after you got your expansion. It took you waayyy too long to commit to colossus or templar tech.
If you're not doing some cheesy all-in, you need to have a plan for a macro game. For example, get an expansion, 5 gates, and a robo bay and make gateway/colossus. Or get 6 gates and blink stalkers and be aggressive with them while you take a third and get HT. If you sit on 2 base with an army like that for that long, you will 100% die against even low master's opponents. You need a change in game plan if you want to continue ranking up.
 
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2good@tribes.com
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229 - 07-28-2011, 00:18
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well said julius
 
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kazan
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230 - 07-28-2011, 02:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calx View Post
since this thread inspired me to start playing 1v1 again i thought it would be nice to post my own replays since volcanic and 2good have as well so we can all see where we're at, here's a pvt and two pvz i just played yesterday

pvz.SC2Replay
pvz2.SC2Replay
pvt.SC2Replay



your "matchmaking rating" (MMR) was high enough to be in master since you worked through diamond but the system hadn't promoted you yet - promotions are random, they only "evaluate your league" randomly it seems

but at the beginning of a new season, the placement match auto-evaluates you based on your previous mmr
The promotions and placements are algorithmic. Likely his mmr from prior to the season was good enough to just place him into masters.

As for the replays, the only thing I can say for them on the second pvz.

Your opponent had you boxed hard, and got greedy and tried to push the advantage too much. I would have just double expanded behind and gotten upgrades, filling the front up as necessary with fresh units. Eventually you would have worn down and been down on econ, at which point he would be moving into his Hive tech and bringing in the big guns. I'd say it had less to do with your unremarkable play, and more to do with his very bad play.

I also might have opted for a few banelings (prior to blink/storm tech) in the mix and maybe, maybe dropped for harrass, but not committed overly to it, just to force you down on econ even more, and keep your forces moving around more.

Actually, same goes for the first pvz too, but he just sucked. Over macro'd, poor scouting and map control, despite having slings.
 
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Calx
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231 - 07-28-2011, 03:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius View Post
Game 1 your attack was extremely slow. You're hitting with a 1 base timing when other Protoss are attacking with a 2 base 6-7 gate timing. Your force fields also leave much to be desired. You didn't even spend a decent bit of your sentry energy despite having holes in your ff wall and you didn't FF his ramp.
Overall I just think there are much better Protoss all-in's to do if you're determined to do one.

Game 2, I dunno what to say about this. Is this really diamond level play? The zerg had 40 drones at the 20 minute mark, and it looked like you were running around with your head cut off after you got your expansion. It took you waayyy too long to commit to colossus or templar tech.
If you're not doing some cheesy all-in, you need to have a plan for a macro game. For example, get an expansion, 5 gates, and a robo bay and make gateway/colossus. Or get 6 gates and blink stalkers and be aggressive with them while you take a third and get HT. If you sit on 2 base with an army like that for that long, you will 100% die against even low master's opponents. You need a change in game plan if you want to continue ranking up.
g1 - maybe i need to hit with 2 immos vs 3 to attack faster than a 6-7 gate would hit, but are you serious? 6-7 gates hitting at the time it takes to go robo and build 2 immos? maybe i should just forge expo into 6gate if it seriously hits at the same time but i doubt it. i wouldn't know as i don't play with game clock enabled

g2 - i couldn't pick between colo/ht tech because i wasn't quite sure wtf he was doing, took me awhile to figure out he was committing to hydra/roach creep push

appreciate the pointers, but i intend to play 1-base til the system ranks me up into master (i'm beating master opponents right now >50%) so with that in mind, how would you suggest tuning up my 3g robo all-in? if i'm hitting slow enough where i would have 6-7 gate (which by the way is not as strong vs early roach/marau play), then i suppose that means i need to just hit @ 2nd immortal?

stalker/sentry/immortal 3g robo has been rolling over all the 2rax T's and FE Z's i've been playing so i'm pretty hesitant to switch to a macro-oriented style. pvp has been standard 4g or bust... only been playing toss as opposed to random because season 3 just started and its probably the best time to try to move leagues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Volcanic
Actually, same goes for the first pvz too, but he just sucked. Over macro'd, poor scouting and map control, despite having slings.
Don't be too critical - he's in high diamond and probably would take you to school
 
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kazan
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232 - 07-28-2011, 03:30
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Just because he's in high diamond doesn't mean I can't see where he went wrong. I'm bad at the game, not bad at seeing things.
 
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Calx
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233 - 07-28-2011, 03:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Volcanic View Post
Just because he's in high diamond doesn't mean I can't see where he went wrong. I'm bad at the game, not bad at seeing things.
Yes, i saw his mistakes too, but saying "he just sucks" is a bit.. much. If you overmacro you suck?
 
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kazan
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234 - 07-28-2011, 04:01
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Not far from it, for zerg anyway. It was a gross combination of things, overmacro just being the most pronounced thing he was bad at. Realistically, he under-macro'd, but he focused heavily on early macro, and then... stopped? And then tried to build a roach army with no scout info... with one gas. And did nothing with his lings and their speed upgrade. And then he built two gas at his expo, and hit panic mode and had barely enough gas to pump out a handful of roaches, and then resorted to lings that got shredded to quick to have been of use. To me, it looks like he has no clue wtf he wants to do, and is just mish-mashing together **** in hopes that it works. If he had done anything with his early slings, instead of attacking rocks to one of your expos, he might have been able to make something of it long before you were getting immos. If he had been playing me and been that passive and willing to give up that much map control, I would have won too.
 
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Last edited by kazan; 07-28-2011 at 04:04..
kazan
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235 - 07-28-2011, 04:45
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Also, replays, yay!

Shakuras Plateau (41).SC2Replay ZvT
Xel'Naga Caverns (37).SC2Replay ZvZ
The Shattered Temple (44).SC2Replay ZvP

I've gotta start finding a way to spend these minerals from this Spanishiwa build. I'm just piling them up, and by the time I start hitting the army making stride, I'm usually floating 1k. I guess pop a 3rd hatch in base or expo? Idk.
 
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2good@tribes.com
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236 - 07-28-2011, 09:07
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Ok today I will actually be available to check out all your guys' replays, i'll give some non-troll criticism after work. I also find it funny that dark volcanic said some valid points despite being a terrible player, if only you could actually apply what you think you know. And yes, with the spanishiwa build, u should get your 3rd base after 44 drones, immediately followed by a macro hatch + upgs. Think of it like if you ever have 1k+ minerals before you're maxed, you deserve to lose, so never get there. spend your money even if u think you're spending it on things that are not "necessary" because if u die when u have a bank u should bow your head in shame.

Also, dark volcanic, you shouldnt be over critical seeing as high diamonds are supposed to be bad, thats why they are diamond.
 
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groundzero
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237 - 07-28-2011, 10:59
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i messaged dark volcanic for a practice game. ignored.

bm
 
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kazan
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238 - 07-28-2011, 11:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by groundzero View Post
i messaged dark volcanic for a practice game. ignored.

bm
sorry bro, I was in the middle of a game, big 4v4 battle
also couldnt for the life of me figure out who gz was
 
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2good@tribes.com
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239 - 07-28-2011, 12:13
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theres this thing called a keyboard where you can input your thoughts via words
 
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groundzero
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240 - 07-28-2011, 14:16
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hurts my feelings
 
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