Latest Drama Bomb: PL Cheats By Staying Out Of Local

ViRGE

Veteran XX
From Kugutsumen:

ZachPruckowski said:
An exploit has been confirmed to exist that allows people to jump into a system without being visible in local. They have enough time to probe down and warp to ratters or miners before they appear in local, giving them basically free kills on most miners/ratters[1]. No reproduction steps are public, but it seems to involve somehow selectively blocking client->server packets. A common hypothesis is that the hacker allows the "hey, I'm jumping" packet and other positioning packets through, but blocks the "change me over to <new system> Local" packet.

It is alleged that Monkeysphere of Pandemic Legion (and potentially other PLers) knew about the exploit and have been using it on Tranquility for some time, primarily to hunt isk-bots.

[1] - Reliably escaping this exploit would require aligning out, checking local at least once every other second, and being more than 40km from the warp-in point for your belt.

Originally by: Dabo Girl
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Alright fellas. I am a PL member, but I'd rather not disclose exactly who I am at this point. PL has developed an internal application known as "The Sphere", which is what MS has been using to 'test' killing botters. I don't have access to the sub-forums to which they are developing this stuff, but someone who did sent me a post that karttoon made the other day with some research on the futher development of the application. I am completely against the creation of eve exploits, so I've decided to release this for you guys to use to help put a stop to this bull****.


Originally by: karttoon
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I've found a few ways to improve The Sphere app, but there is still a ton of investigation/work to be done. Injecting the raw IRCD command to join the local channel seems to work 100% of the time using the #local.<system name> channel-set. It appears that issue the app seemed to be running into was that the eve IRCD is developed to be case sensitive for local channels. I'm working on a flat file database list that contains all of the correct cases as placed in the IRCD. If the injection joined the incorrect local channel (which didn't really exist), then the client would disconnect on aggression, causing you to float in space with your **** in your hand. It seems that Monkeys connection issues related to some of his comedy losses were related to the fact he actually didn't join local prior to aggressing on the target. If I can get someone in a covops to roam around and capture the raw packet logs I'll run it through the perl script I wrote to parse the correct system names. At a minimum, we need to do this for all of the eastern and southern systems.

Problem two I looked at is where we are only obtaining a 50% success rate in actually dropping the join channel, variable based on who is testing this. This seems to be due to the fact that the virtual NIC drivers that monkey developed have issued the drop packet command after the packet has already been sent to the server. This is variable by CPU load of the client, network utilization, ping times, and luck. There is no easy way to solve this without completely lagging out the client with a full custom in-line packet inspector. There are some commercial applications that have this functionality for other purposes, and are extremely efficient. Software wise, NOD32 has both built in memory and packet inspection technologies that I think I can tap into to drop entering local. I don't think it will be easy to specify the system, but at a minimum I'm sure I can get it to not join 'any' local channels, where you'd then have to issue the manual injection technique for each system (annoying, but not a huge deal unless you plan to burn around quickly). The second option is to use hardware between your computer and the server, which isn't very practical for anyone. Managing encryption keys for the sessions is also a ton of effort to program. McAfee intrushield hardware (costly unless you get a used unsupported device), or potentially modified snort may be able to do this for us. I'd rather look into this as a last resort since this would either require a virtual machine to be running, adding lag, or additional hardware.

Some irrelevant random points: Toying around I've also discovered ways to join multiple local channels and speak in them remotely, but you randomly get disconnected from the server when doing this. I think it has something to do with CCP's desynch detection code. Private group channels appear to use the +k IRC setting, which means you can't snoop on random channels unless you actually know the channel password. How they've implemented the 'allow' or 'deny' list for the channel is still unknown to me at this point. If I can figure it out, perhaps I can bypass the key requirement with further injections. I'm a bit busy for the next few days doing other things, but I'll keep you guys posted.



At this point there doesn't seem to be any denial or reason to doubt that 1 or more PL members were hacking client communications to stay out of local. Furthermore there's little reason to doubt that this was used in PvP against legitimate players.

And the EVE-O thread related to it, where about half the posts are Russian botters complaining that they were getting cheated. EVE Online | EVE Insider | Forums

CCP needs to ban the cheaters (and hell, just ban all of PL) and then go on a new Unholy Rage to get the botters.
 
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Yeah, I saw a lot of contention over whether or not he was actully banned. So, I take it he wasn't. I wasn't active during FREEE's elitist coward days, so I lack much of the PL hate. Without that, I have a hard time being angry over monkysphere killing predominently Russian ravens, golems, drakes, and mining barges.
 
Yeah, I saw a lot of contention over whether or not he was actully banned. So, I take it he wasn't. I wasn't active during FREEE's elitist coward days, so I lack much of the PL hate. Without that, I have a hard time being angry over monkysphere killing predominently Russian ravens, golems, drakes, and mining barges.

Cheating is never ok. He doesn't use it "for the good of EVE", he uses it for his own good. And he has killed plenty of non-macro non-Russian people with it.

He's laying low now after the whole drama bomb though, no kills lately of the same caliber.
 
vlasic, im trying to join the corp.

Although........... I've been playing for 3 days and man a POS Destroyer, running L1 missions. :cry:

Eve name/tag: Freysia

help a bro
 
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Well... I'm in PL. And I do have some inside information on this.

MonkeySphere never used an exploit to get his kills. He did however discover that he could avoid showing up in local by simply avoiding doing certain things. This worked for HIM because of his ISP. He lives in an area of the world known for producing very large bot farms, so his ISP has a deep packet inspection policy and will block packets that appear to be automated IRC commands.

EVE's chat channels all use IRC, so essentially, his ISP was blocking him from local. CCP did investigate the problem, and did become aware of what was causing the problem. They did not ban him, since he was not intentionally causing the situation.

However... once that became public knowledge, it's fairly obvious that all anybody needs to do to block local is download and install deep inspection software to their routers. This is not difficult to do for anybody that has any network engineering skills at all. I already know people OUTSIDE of PL that are doing this regularly. It has nothing to do with just our alliance. It's a simple trick of technology and I'm very very sure CCP will perform some sort of patch to this with the May expansion.
 
What you describe is the definition of an exploit. Making him a faggot. Tell him to contact me if he needs directional scanner training/tips.
 
What you describe is the definition of an exploit. Making him a faggot. Tell him to contact me if he needs directional scanner training/tips.
No kidding. So he wasn't doing it intentionally, that's fine. Then he took advantage of it, and that makes him a loser of the highest order.
 
Well... I'm in PL. And I do have some inside information on this.

MonkeySphere never used an exploit to get his kills. He did however discover that he could avoid showing up in local by simply avoiding doing certain things. This worked for HIM because of his ISP. He lives in an area of the world known for producing very large bot farms, so his ISP has a deep packet inspection policy and will block packets that appear to be automated IRC commands.

EVE's chat channels all use IRC, so essentially, his ISP was blocking him from local. CCP did investigate the problem, and did become aware of what was causing the problem. They did not ban him, since he was not intentionally causing the situation.

However... once that became public knowledge, it's fairly obvious that all anybody needs to do to block local is download and install deep inspection software to their routers. This is not difficult to do for anybody that has any network engineering skills at all. I already know people OUTSIDE of PL that are doing this regularly. It has nothing to do with just our alliance. It's a simple trick of technology and I'm very very sure CCP will perform some sort of patch to this with the May expansion.

hahaha

you are a dumb faggot

what makes you think a grunt like you would know anything about it

the ISP thing is so hilarious
 
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