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Feannag
VeteranXV
Old
1 - 01-02-2010, 04:21
I think this past update has been the only one I really have complaints about. the other class updates.

Soldier : I normally don't play soldier but I'm getting the impression once you get a Direct Hit than anyone can be "great". It's much harder to reflect them versus normal rockets, and the extra speed seems to allow for more hip-shooting and hitting your target. Especially worse in choke-points in some maps where you have such a retardedly short range you pretty much can't miss. The Equalizer doesn't bother me as much, but I'm hearing once you get to 20 health or so you can pretty much 1-shot anyone not an uninjured Heavy and move close to scout speed.

Demoman : Normally I don't play them either, but now I rarely see one who isn't carrying all the new weapons. It makes me feel like whatever "sacrifice" you usually have to make seems to be pennies on the dollar compared to what you get in return. The Eyelander is just stupid, the range on that thing is just silly. Too many times one charged past me, a clean dodge, only to find I got my head cut off. Makes kind of a mockery of melee now because it seems you just have to flail around and hold attack and you'll kill people easily. Especially when you combine that with the Targe, which makes soldiers and pyros pushovers with the fire/explosive damage reduction. I play Pyro a lot, so I appreciate a good demo fight but it seems like even if they don't have the Eyelander people tote the Targe simply so they can pushover hte pyros. It takes entirely too long to kill one even with a direct flame at close quarters I just CB them and hope I can push them off a ledge or other obstacle and run away.

Last part is it seems a lot of demos, which their sacrificing stickies for their shiny medieval ****, have become very good at MA grenade hits. It's hard to think someone could be so good they can get a dodging scout in midair from around medium range. Then again a few times I have seen a hail of grenades from five demos unloading at once and thinking, "Huh, and I remember when Valve decided to take class grenades out specifically to avoid grenade-spamming..."

Well engineer is last and probably for good reason, I get the suspicion they will probably get some kind of "mobile turret" because I can't think of a way to get people from just trying to out-turtle each other when that hits.

I'd love to see them allowing the Scout's Sandman to have an extra ability to bat grenades back. But I doubt that'll happen.
 
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Last edited by Feannag; 01-02-2010 at 04:24..
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CarpeIppon
Veteran++
Old
2 - 01-03-2010, 17:00
update makes noob pyros cry. l2p.

Soldier #1: The direct hit isn't that great. If it was, everyone in the comp scene(ie players that can aim) would use it. L2move.
Soldier #2: When the equilizer is 1hit kill on anything, they have so little health all you have to do is sneeze on them. L2sneeze.

demo #1: the sword has barely more range. The lag compensation is screwing with your head. Try it against some bots.
demo #2: If you are playing pyro, l2shotgun. Puff and sting or puff and shotgun. not hard.
demo #3: If scouts get hit at midrange by pills, they suck and can't move/anticipate for ****.
 
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Last edited by CarpeIppon; 01-03-2010 at 17:03..
Feannag
VeteranXV
Old
3 - 01-03-2010, 21:31
Been playing more Scout now since then, but I have yet to see people NOT use the Direct Hit. They travel 80% faster and on direct hit slam for 337.5 damage (if the tf2wiki can be trusted). That's enough to 1-shot anyone normally and only some buffed classes can survive that. The damage wouldn't be the issue if the thing wasn't so damn fast, long range you have a reasonable chance to dodge it but medium and short there's no saving you unless the user completely can't aim. The Direct Hit seems to be a "I can be good at Soldier without trying" weapon now, and it's stupid for for not one of the two reasons above (damage and projectile speed) but put them together and it's hard to not miss.

I do a lot of dodging as a scout, both forward/side, back/side and even side to side and I'm still getting "pilled" as you call it from medium range in midair.

To be fair I don't play competitively, and I'm not sure what's up with that. I know some classes are simply not played comp because they are not feasible. Last I remember the classes people do play are soldiers, demos, scouts, and medics. The rest fall by the wayside due to certain things, like the heavy being too slow and the pyro having no long-range capability. Not to mention the whole time teams are so organized spy disguises are almost useless.
 
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CarpeIppon
Veteran++
Old
4 - 01-04-2010, 04:22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feannag View Post
Been playing more Scout now since then, but I have yet to see people NOT use the Direct Hit. They travel 80% faster and on direct hit slam for 337.5 damage (if the tf2wiki can be trusted). That's enough to 1-shot anyone normally and only some buffed classes can survive that. The damage wouldn't be the issue if the thing wasn't so damn fast, long range you have a reasonable chance to dodge it but medium and short there's no saving you unless the user completely can't aim. The Direct Hit seems to be a "I can be good at Soldier without trying" weapon now, and it's stupid for for not one of the two reasons above (damage and projectile speed) but put them together and it's hard to not miss.

I do a lot of dodging as a scout, both forward/side, back/side and even side to side and I'm still getting "pilled" as you call it from medium range in midair.
TF2 wiki cannot be trusted, that number is almost 3 times too high. You can 1 shot a scout at close range with DH, so don't hug soldiers. But I really can't see how you can say a projectile weapon with no splash is a noobie weapon.

If you are getting hit by pipes at mid range as a scout, you are just too predictable. You have to lead a scout by like 2+ body widths at mid range. Watch the demo and look where he is aiming. If he is aiming at a spot that will intersect yours in the time it takes for a grenade to travel to you, then immediately change direction. Also, many demos fire as fast as possible, so change directions at the same rate as the demo's max fire rate.
 
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Last edited by CarpeIppon; 01-04-2010 at 04:26..
Backslash
VeteranX
Old
5 - 01-11-2010, 11:33
If I jump at the right time I can dodge almost all the damage from the direct hit. I'm not being facetious, I can really (as a pyro) jump over the blast damage.

It is a trade off. Some people are really good at predicting movement and get some good hits with it, but you can't just spam the wall/ground and expect to get kills. So you use whichever you like better, but it's not a straight upgrade.

I'll save you my rants on the other weapons because they follow similar logic. I'm not a fanboy, but I think they've done a pretty good job with the pros and cons of weapons. People just flip out over the novelty and prestige of having the new stuff. It'll wear off.

P.S. I think your sandman idea is great. However, I know (playing engi) I'd get screwed by a scout accidentally helping the pills hit my sentry .
 
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SexxxGodSteve
VeteranX
Old
6 - 01-12-2010, 21:49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feannag View Post
Been playing more Scout now since then, but I have yet to see people NOT use the Direct Hit. They travel 80% faster and on direct hit slam for 337.5 damage (if the tf2wiki can be trusted). That's enough to 1-shot anyone normally and only some buffed classes can survive that. The damage wouldn't be the issue if the thing wasn't so damn fast, long range you have a reasonable chance to dodge it but medium and short there's no saving you unless the user completely can't aim. The Direct Hit seems to be a "I can be good at Soldier without trying" weapon now, and it's stupid for for not one of the two reasons above (damage and projectile speed) but put them together and it's hard to not miss.

I do a lot of dodging as a scout, both forward/side, back/side and even side to side and I'm still getting "pilled" as you call it from medium range in midair.

To be fair I don't play competitively, and I'm not sure what's up with that. I know some classes are simply not played comp because they are not feasible. Last I remember the classes people do play are soldiers, demos, scouts, and medics. The rest fall by the wayside due to certain things, like the heavy being too slow and the pyro having no long-range capability. Not to mention the whole time teams are so organized spy disguises are almost useless.
competitive play is very very different than pubbing.
i've played with a few guys from complexity, loaded, pandemic, etc. and the amount of strategy applied to what would seem to be a spam fest is surprising. everyone on the team is communicating at all times, and making calls to retreat/push. scouts are extremely dangerous, since they will come right up behind the medic and blast him away before anyone can do anything about it.

the only unlocks used in comp play are the medics, and SOMETIMES the FaN. the direct hit is rarely used, despite people thinking its an upgrade. scouts who know what they are doing will have an easy time dodging the DH due to its small blast radius. so the regular launcher is preferred. the sandman isn't allowed, and neither is the dead ringer if i remember right.

pyro is useful in select situations such as defense on the last point on badlands. some teams will play a sniper sometimes. engineer is used on gravel pit defense. but the heavy is practically useless the majority of the time.
 
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Hellsfury
VeteranXV
Contributor
Old
7 - 01-14-2010, 05:25
I think vAlve spends a lot of time figuring out the novelties of how ppl play and then making a weapon that caters to that. This, as opposed to genuinely creating items that enhance the role of the class itself.


The "KGB" for example.... there's a nice novel addition... when the **** does a HWGuy find it strategically applicable to put away his primary and secondary weapons in favor of a melee attack that is only beneficial if it crits from a last hit?

The sandvich.... an item that caters to an enviornment that lacks team support for the player. Why would a HWG not have the support of a Medic nearby on a properly organized team employing good teamwork?


Don't get me wrong, it's fun to play with goofy things... but vAlve seems to weight the idea of raw goofy fun being more important then whether or not things are practical or help expand the natural role of the character.
 
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Phrozen
VeteranXV
Old
8 - 01-27-2010, 20:33
Targing demos are easy as hell. Even the ones that have fed on your newb teammates. Play a pyro and put your newb backburner away. When they come at you dodge or airblast and put them on fire. They will undoubtedly try to come at you again, so axtinguisher.
 
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Oug
Veteran
Old
9 - 02-05-2010, 17:59
I haven't played much since after the Spy/Sniper update. Great video, but I felt the gameplay went downhill since then. A lot less sniper-sniper battles to keep me entertained.
 
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