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triple
VeteranXV
Old
41 - 07-03-2008, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
I'm just pointing out that obama's popularity isn't based on his anti-war-ness.
Would he have won the dnc primary based on his current no timetable iraq strategy? Doubt it. Possibly.

He tried to win the primary and now hes trying to win the general. I'm not blaming him, but I am calling it like I see it.

Would you stick to YOUR principles if it meant losing the presidency? We're all fine upstanding folks here, but this is the best job in the world. People will compromise for the big chair.
 
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Big Dick Dudley
VeteranX
Old
42 - 07-03-2008, 06:52 PM
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I actually never liked the whole immediate withdrawal stance, so this flip-flop works. As for the FISA... bah.
 
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cogzinofa
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43 - 07-03-2008, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple View Post
Would he have won the dnc primary based on his current no timetable iraq strategy? Doubt it. Possibly.
I don't think people would have liked that stand as much, but I doubt it would have changed voting behavior.

people didn't vote for hillary because they didn't like hillary, not because they disliked her war plans.
 
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triple
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44 - 07-03-2008, 06:54 PM
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That's why code pink was protesting hillary right? Because they just didn't like her as a person?
 
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cogzinofa
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45 - 07-03-2008, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by triple View Post
That's why code pink was protesting hillary right? Because they just didn't like her as a person?
do you think code pink managed to sway a huge number of democratic voters?
 
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triple
VeteranXV
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46 - 07-03-2008, 06:57 PM
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I think code pink represented the anti-war far left. They swayed no one, they're a result of the political climate themselves.
 
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GeneralHell
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47 - 07-03-2008, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by triple View Post
I'm certain hes saying what needs to be said to win an election. He can't be blamed - hes a politician, that's what they do. I don't know if he actually means it.

I think the real reason people aren't coming down on me harder is because you know this makes a lot of sense.
We just don't want you to quit TW again.

I'd rather elect someone who can reevaluate his position based on facts and new information than some senile old man who can't keep countries straight in his head.
 
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cogzinofa
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48 - 07-03-2008, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by triple View Post
I think code pink represented the anti-war far left. They swayed no one, they're a result of the political climate themselves.
so you think a small fringe group on the left is all that stood between hillary and the presidential nomination?

hillary had much bigger problems than her war stance.
 
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Lockup
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49 - 07-03-2008, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by GeneralHell View Post
We just don't want you to quit TW again.

I'd rather elect someone who can reevaluate his position based on facts and new information than some senile old man who can't keep countries straight in his head.
That would be great if that is what happened. He didn't reevaluate **** so stop trying to make him seem so dam smart. He was saying the same **** the other dems said when they tried to get congress. Guess what war is still going on Dems failed.
 
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triple
VeteranXV
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50 - 07-03-2008, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
hillary had much bigger problems than her war stance.
Maybe with mainstream democratic voters, but primaries aren't necessarily about them. This primary was somewhat of an exception due to the prolonged length, but usually only the hardcore partisans even give a **** about these things.

That's why candidates veer towards the extreme, and then when the primaries are over, they suddenly "Reevaluate the facts" (god I love that spin) and veer center to gather as much swing and undecideds as possible.

This happens to every candidate.

So why am I not knocking mccain for this? Mccain didn't have to. He would have, if it came to that, but his primary was over long before the democrats. He had time to gradually shift center during the primaries.
 
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JuggerNaught
AIDs Water5
Old
51 - 07-03-2008, 07:08 PM
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One of the girls at work has a father that was working as a civvie contractor in iraq. He just came home because the u.s. army has told all the contractors there that they are no longer providing protection and estimate a major withdraw within 18 months
 
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thejyav
Veteran5
Old
52 - 07-03-2008, 07:10 PM
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this is a flip flop. The facts were there months ago and he told the Bush haters what they wanted to hear to make sure he had the nomination locked up. Now he is trying to lower expectations so his base doesn't get pissed when he does not do what he said he would after getting the white house. It's the regular democrat strategy.
 
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Last edited by thejyav; 07-03-2008 at 07:59 PM. Reason: evidently I had a stroke when I wrote it before.
cogzinofa
VeteranX
Old
53 - 07-03-2008, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple View Post
Maybe with mainstream democratic voters, but primaries aren't necessarily about them. This primary was somewhat of an exception due to the prolonged length, but usually only the hardcore partisans even give a **** about these things.

That's why candidates veer towards the extreme, and then when the primaries are over, they suddenly "Reevaluate the facts" (god I love that spin) and veer center to gather as much swing and undecideds as possible.

This happens to every candidate.

So why am I not knocking mccain for this? Mccain didn't have to. He would have, if it came to that, but his primary was over long before the democrats. He had time to gradually shift center during the primaries.
I guess you're just going to have to live with being wrong.

obama didn't win the nomination because of his war stance.
 
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triple
VeteranXV
Old
54 - 07-03-2008, 07:14 PM
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that's really subjective anyways, and actually dodging the point I was trying to make.

Obama presented himself as the anti-war withdrawl now candidate to win him the primary. If that was the reason for him winning the primary or not is irrelevant, thats what he DID.

And now once hes in general hes backing off, as he should if he wants to win this thing.

I doubt you'll find anyone who would disagree with that analysis.
 
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JuggerNaught
AIDs Water5
Old
55 - 07-03-2008, 07:28 PM
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Because there is no way he's going to be able to pull out in 6 months. Any more than mccain is going to be able to bring a 'win' home in 6 years.
 
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Wowbagger
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Old
56 - 07-03-2008, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by thejyav View Post
this is a flip flop the facts where there months ago he told the Bush haters what they wanted to here till he had the nomination locked now he is trying to lower expectations so his base doesn't get pissed when he doesn't do it after getting the white house. It's the regular democrat strategy.
So is using punctuation.
 
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ZOD
VeteranX
Old
57 - 07-03-2008, 07:33 PM
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Ron Paul.
 
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Esteban_Villa
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Old
58 - 07-03-2008, 07:34 PM
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I thought everyone already knew Obama was going to have us stay in Iraq?
 
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SaintDude
Miss Deaf Texas++
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Old
59 - 07-03-2008, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascoe View Post
better than 100 years


this election is shaping up to be more of a joke than 2000
I thought 2004 was the joke?

By the way ... all in favor of blowing up Florida if they **** things up again say 'aye'.
 
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escapedturkey
Veteran4
Old
60 - 07-03-2008, 07:40 PM
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More evidence that all politicians are liars.
 
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