Thrax: Where's the masses?
- Thread starter Wulfen
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Pachacutec
Veteran X
i disagree, i liked the sp, it did add a new dimension. there should have been waaay less of it though, resources were definitely over allocated.
Aesop-The evil one
Veteran X
Do you guys mean like how I played CS Source ONE night, and found out it was just CS with better graphics? Then never played it since? Because it was so stinking boring? Corral style maps with no where to go? No inventories at all. Spawn, die, wait till the game ends, rinse, lather, repeat? EXACTLY like the one I was burned out on? Do you mean like that?
I must admit that HL2 was the very best single player game ever to be loaded on my comp.
I must admit that HL2 was the very best single player game ever to be loaded on my comp.
Cavalier said:
Exactly. T2 did not "kill" the franchise, but its out of the box release did eventually kill the momentum and made a lot of harcore T1 vets of the time abandon the game never to look back.
What has happened with T2 is that it has evolved with T1 like gameplay in mods such as classic and of course there are a large mass of players that like base. Some of these players are from T1, some are a whole new set of players that discovered Tribes with Tribes 2.
In other words T2 did become a very worthy sequel to T1 that did attract a large number of players over time. Some T1 vets just dont know that because they only know the game from its tarnished release.
If T2's base game was released with the speed and without all the bugs, video card issues, etc out of the box, Tribes 2 would still be one of the top online games and the community would still be flourishing. T2 is not a bad game at all. Its game design is well thought out, and the vehicles are very well balanced. The server piece, observer mode, voting system outstanding. All of this missed unfortunately due major release blunders: a physics change (speed) and buggy ass release.
So many may say, well give TV some time. T2 improved. This is true, but
TV, probaly in an attempt to please T1 competition vets and newbies with its minimalist approach removed so much that was Tribes that its hard to believe simple mods can fix some of these problems Ok sure many T1 competition players may not have used vehicles, or the command map etc, but hey, they are all an inherent part of the game for a large mass of folks who dont play in competition. If you do compete, you dont have to use those features.
As cavalier mentioned, there are so many non-functional features in the TV MP game that dont work or need to be fixed. And even with fixes, many of the in game features (voting and observer mode etc) are so badly designed that even fixing them wields an inferior feature compared to T1 and T2. The scale of the game was completely changed, skiing isnt Tribes interpretation of skiing its literally skiing.
Also, TV's big claim being built on Unreal engine was that it would be so easy for the modding community to mod the game and simply put back anything thats missing in the base game. Im not finding very many in the modding community finding it easy to mod the game.
TV's thinktank amounted to this, Water it down to suit the essence of what Tourney T1 players want and yet make those features and the game newbie friendly, but remember the SP is priority.
Yes T2 killed momentum, but TV with its third try and watered down nature could probaly be called the killer.
Pachacutec said:
Its not that a good SP is a bad thing. I just think the focus on the SP hurt the development of the MP. Just look at the current MP out of the box.
Random150 said:
Exactly. I think this is something the gaming industry doesnt understand yet. They still look at game longevity based on shipped units etc. A titles longevity has a lot to do with the popularity of the mulitplayer game. Because the gaming franchise is mostly focused on consoles they miss that part of the formula but at least consoles are slowly opening up the the world of MP gaming.
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The Pumpkin King
Veteran XX
[AKA]PanamaJack said:I am not going to continue repeating myself on that because you are too damned dense to understand what was said the first time in many different threads. Use the search and have fun.
And while you are at it answer the question I asked you in one of the many threads you ignored.
Wow, that's awefully convenient for you isn't it? I would think somebody as vastly knowledgeable as you would have been able to post the list in the same amount of time it took you to type that response, but I guess not.
Come to think of it, I too have a magical list of game developement criteria prooving I am lord of game developement hidden amongst my posts as well. I'm just uhh... too tired, yeah that's it... to re-list a few key issues to prove my case once and for all. Clearly you can search and realize my awesome power? *fart*
Or maybe you really haven't said much of anything in any of your posts and really don't know anywhere near as much as you say? A simple 1-5 list would do, but I know you won't post it because you're a phony. Anyway, you won't hear anymore from me PJ. If you want to actually discuss something or prove me wrong instead of blowing smoke up my... then post the list. Otherwise I'm tired of listening to your dry filler arguments with zero substance. Lates.
The Pumpkin King
Veteran XX
[AKA]PanamaJack said:And while you are at it answer the question I asked you in one of the many threads you ignored.
It's kind of hard to answer a question when I don't know what it is.
Gandalf said:
I think it tried to do both, which probably could have been done - by a team that had experience in FPS games. This team was not IG. They tried to make a game that appealed to the comp community; and failed miserably. They Tried to make a game that appealed to the public, and failed miserably. Why? simply because they were inept. Everyone from VUG to IG.
Technical issues cripple the comp game: the netcode sucks, the comp features (like server admin features, Obs features, Tournament mode) all suck, Game balance is not particularily great, vehicles suck the bone.
Gameplay issues cripple the game for the general masses, and make pubbing in general not very fun. A new player spawns into a game: he dies nearly instamtly from the incessant onslaught of HO rape. This happens 4-5 times, then he leaves in disgust, never to reutrn. (How did they NOT foresee this?) He can't find shit, because they took out all the nav points. And so on.
Then there are the issues that plague all aspects of the game, like the absolutely shoddy map design. These maps just all suck. I mean, really. They are tiny rapefests, they turn into grapple-whore standoffs nearly instantly, and they just generally aggravate all the worst parts of the game while hiding the strengths. The map design team reeally needs to be permanently barred from ever touching an editor again.
Don't get me wrong. There's some aspects to the game I really like. The mortar is perfect, I love the motion, the sniper rifle has been appropriately toned back from the death machine of T2. But it's all put together so poorly. From the moment you load up, everything screams "CHEAP" and "NO THOUGHT PUT INTO THIS". It fails on every level, except for being a passable momentary diversion.
Aesop-The evil one
Veteran X
?B-MAN said:
I say you are wrong. T1 was the game. T2 sold because T1 was very good, had an excellent player base, and we all bought T2 because we loved T1. T2 would be T1 with better graphics, we all knew it. We were wrong. It was very different from T1. It was very buggy. Many maps were unplayable, ocean maps were awful if you fell into the water. Ctrl k was your friend. Vehicle pads were TK fests because with out a vehicle you played defense, or walked 2000 meters. Player base plummeted in the first month of release, despite phenominal sales. In the end a few hundred people played T2 on the planet. T2 player base rose dramaticly after the free release of T1 and T2
T:V comes out and despite the fact that a few hundred people play T2. the game has low sales. You blame T:V, I blame T2. T:V should have sold zillions of copies on name recognition alone.
Aesop-The evil one said:
I dont blame TV, I do blame T2 lousy release for being a momantum killer, but TV could have ressurected it, but its more like the stake thats finishing the job.
Today T2 is an excellent game whether you a base player or classic style player. If youre one of the folks who still play T1 only, and havent played T2 since its release, you really should give it a another look.
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Wolfchylde
Veteran XV
Incorrect. Had T:V not put out those awful demo/beta things, then it would have probably sold better. Early on I TRIED to tell people to play it and the general response was "I played the demos and they sucked hardcore". :shrug: If people dont enjoy the game in demo play and there are NO additional features in the release version (remember that the only thing the full game has over the demo are the maps really) WHO do you expect to buy it?Aesop-The evil one said:
Oh and earlier I think PK points out about the T2 demo's downloads.. how long AFTER the game had been out was the demo released? If my memory serves me about 5-6 months (perhaps less, but no less than three) by that point a LOT of people were already playing the game. So the demo really didnt affect sales one way or another in the long run for T2.
T:v on the other hand... :ugh:
Pachacutec
Veteran X
Random150 said:
absolutely. i like the idea of including a very small sp, and if its well received, releaseing new sp levels over time. i think spending sooo much time on the sp when there are already so many top notch sp campaigns out there is a gamble.
for instance, right now i'm gonna go play cod..
Aesop-The evil one said:
Bullshit. While T2 was horrible when it was released, and drove a lot of the old school T1 vets away - eventually, after a lot of community support (and copious bitching) T2 finally, after about a year - became *close* to what we all wanted in a game - when Base++ and Classic were released. T2's player base didn't rise "dramatically" when it was offered for free, it was actually very stong for about two years - from the time Base++ first came out until about 6-12 months before T:V came out. In that time frame, T2 kicked serious ass. Great new maps, classic, speed - they all made T2 a pretty decent game. Unfortunately, by then it was too late.
T2's competitive community never did appear to be as big as T1 - At T1's height there were over 175 teams on the OGL ladder. T2's competitive community never got nearly as big - but team sizes (from T1's 10 to T2's 14) did have something to do with that.
T2 was a great game, I had just as much fun playing it as I did playing T1, either on a pub or on a team. T:V is also a lot of fun - as I said - as long as you're not trying to compare it to what you THINK it should be.
pocketgamer
Veteran X
Gandalf said:
Aesop-The evil one said:
This is simply false, or stated by a player who was below-average even on a server like STAR. no maps had bases 2000 meters apart; 1200 meters was a very large map, and even that was ski-able very quickly (unless you were a complete noob that tried to walk the entire way).
The player base did NOT plummet in the first month; if you insist on claiming so, please produce hard numbers from verifiable sources. And the T2 player base did NOT rise at all after the free releases of either T1 or T2. (for one thing, the free release of T2 was fucked up, and the master servers were down for 1-2 weeks while the game was released). Sure T2 has but a few hundred players left, 3-4 years after the fact. That's more players than T:V.
Quite frankly, your claims about T2 are so factually incorrect that I have real doubts about whether or not you even played the game.
I love how everyone is analyzing the failure of t:v/'failure of t2' (big quotes around that) when in fact people should be working to make a better legends or move on with their lives
its over, tv killed tribes, now do something with your life cuz a patch won't fix the damage.
its over, tv killed tribes, now do something with your life cuz a patch won't fix the damage.
pocketgamer
Veteran X
kesh! said: