Need a Tribes OGL Historian

DiSk said:
You seriously dont want to know the tricks of s3, it's almost sickening. It wasnt Just "shiva". s3 wasnt the only dirty team.

it doesn't surprise me if this was true, but who really gives a s**t... it's a freakin' game (a video game). if they did cheat, which i'm not saying they did, none of it matters. what matters is the competition. any of us who have been on #1 teams, or played at that level begin to realize what the point of it all was. if =S3= needed to cheat for wins, it ultimately doesn't matter.
 
Warwitch openly admitted to using all the happy hacks back when the whole thing first came out.

A note on S3 - first, disk isn't diskmagnet, who was in ReZ (at least I don't think he is) so he really has no credibility at all until he reveals who he is, which he won't. Everything he says is unsubstantiated bullshit. Second, most people hated them because they always had like 5+ dudes lanned up when they played and that was back when a lot of teams were like 70% HPB's. When POE first played S3, we had like 8 guys with 300 pings vs 10 guys with 10 pings. It was nuts. That whole game was bullshit because coolio dicked us into playing on the 4th of july weekend when half our team would be gone, but that's another story. :p

The only person who I ever suspected of cheating was z0dd. I played with him in z2 and he was nothing but a HD. He sucked too. Then he went to s3 and did nothing but SPAM. He could spam a target from any location and I don't care how much you practice and how many fucking dry erase marks you make on your monitor, what he did wasn't possible w/o some kind of beaconing system. I don't know about the whole shiva business, but it wouldn't surprise me if z0dd was using it or something he made himself.

Anyone who thinks bluenose cheated is retarded. That dude was the third best capper in the game behind natural and daunt. He posted shit loads of demos too, so nobody has a claim.

Last, if anyone really thinks red mines and turrets is cheating, then blame the script makers. Every god damn script pack came with that crap and it's not like the tide of a game is turned by a fucking mine.
 
very well said jislan. very well said.

i should post some shots of various teams playing on the donut. it honestly wasn't so much the pings, but the PL on the server for east coasters was legendary.

one thing to say about 'blame the script makers'... the slippery slope you have with that is the fact that not everyone had it. sorta akin to a really good tennis player playing with an oversized racket against one of those wooden jobs they played with in the 60's and before. there is an advantage when you play a game that can be decided by seconds, and we all know how momentum dictates the course of tribes more so than in MANY other games... every hand feeds the other... so in many cases scripts CAN change the course of a game.
 
i found the final POE match shoutcast, the one vs z2, they did a kinda cool ending to the shoutcast where every member said something(kinda corny too)
 
Is that the demo where nat runs the most basic as shit routes and still makes all the defenders look like goofballs? He had a knack for doing that shit.
 
I think it's the one where he starts out capping, notices 5150 is running lots of base HO so he switches to mid and starts bodyblocking HO/sniping cappers.
 
Magus said:
it doesn't surprise me if this was true, but who really gives a s**t... it's a freakin' game (a video game). if they did cheat, which i'm not saying they did, none of it matters. what matters is the competition. any of us who have been on #1 teams, or played at that level begin to realize what the point of it all was. if =S3= needed to cheat for wins, it ultimately doesn't matter.

we didn't need cheats to win. we were just better than a lot of teams. also, if a few guys on our team did cheat, that should discredit us. cheating to be able to compete and it being somewhat ok is bullshit. even if all that mattered was the competition.

z0dd didn't cheat imo. z0dd could do more than spam. he was great at taking over bases pretty much on his own, which is why we mostly ran 3 ho. if he did cheat then i'm severely disappointed.

i think blue was better than daunt. i've played on a team with daunt and i agree, he's really fucking good too. just my opinion. oh yeah, blue didn't cheat either.
 
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i'm not saying s3 needed cheats to win, and i'm certain they were better than a lot of teams.

it's not a question of whether they needed cheats, it's more whether or not they did that i think some people wonder about. as much as i can say whether or not they cheated in a 7 year old game doesn't matter... what matters even LESS is if they actually needed them. that's completely irrelevant.
 
my pov is why would we want to cheat if not to win? clearly there is an advantage to cheating. this leads me to believe that our players did not cheat because we didn't need them. (this should answer whether or not we did cheat, although who can say for sure, right?)

would be nice if there was actual proof to all this cheating business. this topic comes up every time there's a t1 thread. :sunny:
 
NuTz hacking was a top down phenomenon that we rationalized because we were convinced others were hacking. Not everyone had them, but the leaders were complicit. By doing so we ruined what was otherwise a hard-working, talented team.

The cheating overshadows NuTz's strategic contribution to the game - "Chaos Strat" or what became popularly known as "Clusterfucking." The debate threads on OGL about whether clusterfucking ruined the game were pretty epic as I recall. The strategy was widely embraced. The Doctor's became excellent at it and 5150 organized a stellar defense against it.

One of my favorite memories of old was the RECK v. DEV demo where RECK turreted DEV's base on Snowblind.

I remember when one of the FTM doods was running around showing people how to "mine disk."

And of course, S3's Tribaldonut was the best pub around.
 
Darkhawk said:
z2, IE, COWS, Synergy, Silent Assault, BMF, Team Fusion, House of Spankings, Western Alliance, Fallen

Later on S3, 5150, FTM, RECK, Abusive, the short lived killaz, and zX, POE, NuTz (despite the whole happy flag we didn't all use it)

For the record S3 wasn't "later on"..we did not start right at the begining per say because it took bit of effort to get our guys over from Q1 TeamFortress. We played Bz in that crazy world ladder as well as all the other early teams. People just have a sour taste of S3 from what they turned into. The original guys either left or got squeezed out by the great "cool crowd" but to me..the original S3 was a good crowd.
Roster from what I remember..

ScooBySnaCk :D
SynJ
ATR
Animosity (now the animo you love to hate)
Coolio
Helfgot or Datura or nick of whatever drug he was using at the time
+ his dad
Souly


hmm brain farting right now but animo can probably fill in a bit more.

edit: and mechfarlane
 
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Rilke said:
The cheating overshadows NuTz's strategic contribution to the game - "Chaos Strat" or what became popularly known as "Clusterfucking." The debate threads on OGL about whether clusterfucking ruined the game were pretty epic as I recall. The strategy was widely embraced. The Doctor's became excellent at it and 5150 organized a stellar defense against it.


The first time clusterfucking was used in an official match was ReZ vs. TF. Which right after i forgot his name, but the leader came out posting a forum topic about how lame it was. good times...
 
Jislan said:
The only person who I ever suspected of cheating was z0dd.

z0dd used to spend hours in a server practicing spam points before a match. I don't see what the point of that would have been if he had a beacon cheat.
 
Wow, Darkhawk mentioned House of Spankings. We were a team of misfits formed from the leftovers of a Quake 2 Weapons Factory team. The most significant thing we accomplished was what we all split off to do after the team broke up. Old_skul and UVALAN. Pubknight and TSN shoutcasting. Shade and PredictIt. BurnYaBad and lucky ass mortaring people a lot, along with random drunken posts after he got done having sex with a new hot 18-22 year old every two weeks. Truly the biggest player and natural Pickup Artist in the Tribes community. Kato and his obscurity while somehow remaining on top teams. Perhaps the first chainwhore that I knew of. He chained on his DSL before he knew how to use his jumpjets. Somehow we managed to squeak our way into the Top 10 in a tough game against *S*, which at the time they considered an embarrassment. Going into a match against COWS thinking that they were some silly noob team, only to find out they were likely the best in the game at the time: Sierra beta testers. Hey, we won Broadside, at least. After they gave the fuck up and decided to beat us on the 3rd map, DoD. FUCKING AUTOAIM!

And I can't say all this without mentioning the origin of the infamous "Core disease." SuperFlu (Flu, nice name... prophetic) and I got together and tried to organize a merge of the most serious players from both HoS and BZ. BZ had such future superstars as Muun/KineticPoet, Shallah, xAlloutwarx, JackofallTrades... just to name a few. Somewhere along the lines everything went to shit and only a few of the BZ guys ended up joining the Israeli 700 ping SuperFlu on his merger attempt with the remnants of HoS (many of our guys had bailed from Tribes for Everquest and real life pursuits and were a bit behind the curve near the end).

Not to brag, ahem, but my greatest contribution to Tribes might have to be being the most annoying player in the game with my Stonehenge mortaring, lazy D sniper bombing runs, and relentless pursuit of cheating fuckbags who ruined the game that happened to rule my life at the time, Tribes. I literally hated lazy Tribes players. Whether that meant sitting around playing duck hunt ruining pub games (that would otherwise be action-packed and exciting), or players/teams so lazy they had to cheat to win rather than put in the time and effort to master the game the proper way. I took it all so personally... the No Fog and the pingfucking. It was my life, then. Now, it's amusing to think I spent so much time on something ultimately so inconsequential. But I still miss it in a way.

Did Doctors ever cheat? I have my doubts about a couple of players during 2000, the peak of Tribes competition (5150, S3, Sticks, TF, POE, Drs, NuTz, among others...) A few of our guys may have kept it under wraps well enough. Who knows for sure about any of their teams, really? It was certainly never discussed or leader-mandated. I hate lists as I hate to miss anyone who competed at that level during that year, but those are the teams I remember the most as being fiercely competitive during that period. In our second go at it (2002?), Shade set up a web site where everyone had to upload their demos, and BYB and I meticulously watched them to refine our strategy and honestly to police our players a little bit. We were rather self-righteous then, but I think that the truth did eventually come out to show that we were right about what we claimed. We weren't #1 and have never made any claims to be. But we were pretty damn good. It's clear 5150 was the best team. They didn't need to cheat, and they never ping fucked us. That was good enough in our book to give them the credit they deserved. We'd beat them in scrims some of the time, but in matches they were tooth-and-nail to the very end. S3? Well, they used packet rate tweaking, creative routing, rules lawyering, and (apparently) cheats in order to secure their position. Can I compare them to 5150, IE, or even Sticks or my own team? No. But that's just one bitter old fuck with a grudge talking, so don't mind me. They had some awesome offense, in any case. Their defense didn't know how to do dick except chain with 10ms and interpolate. We'd joke about it about how they could never land a disk or bodyblock worth a fuck. Yet, we still never took their #2 spot on the ladder, which we challenged twice. So I'm just talking out of my bitter white hairy ass.
 
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