Thrax: Where's the masses?

kesh! said:
I love how everyone is analyzing the failure of t:v/'failure of t2' (big quotes around that) when in fact people should be working to make a better legends or move on with their lives

its over, tv killed tribes, now do something with your life cuz a patch won't fix the damage.
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T2 did not work out of the box. 50% of the community could not play because of UE errors after install. We had to wait for the first patch in order to play and this took weeks if not months. The first ladder matches were cancelled because of this very reason.

T2 sucked, for many other reasons but mainly for leaving out the core game physics of T1. All we ever wanted was a better T1, NOT a new game.

TV sucked, period (unless you never played T1)

In order for this game to ever be right, its gonna have to go back to the basics of T1, a most simple concept that is impossible for this game's manufacturer to understand.

This snowball has been rolling downhill since 2000.
 
Devo_N said:
This is simply false, or stated by a player who was below-average even on a server like STAR. no maps had bases 2000 meters apart; 1200 meters was a very large map, and even that was ski-able very quickly (unless you were a complete noob that tried to walk the entire way).
The player base did NOT plummet in the first month; if you insist on claiming so, please produce hard numbers from verifiable sources. And the T2 player base did NOT rise at all after the free releases of either T1 or T2. (for one thing, the free release of T2 was fucked up, and the master servers were down for 1-2 weeks while the game was released). Sure T2 has but a few hundred players left, 3-4 years after the fact. That's more players than T:V.

Quite frankly, your claims about T2 are so factually incorrect that I have real doubts about whether or not you even played the game.
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That needed repeating.
 
Aesop-The evil one said:
Vehicle pads were TK fests because with out a vehicle you played defense, or walked 2000 meters.
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?? did you even play this game ?? My main position was HO and I never used the Havoc in a PUB and only on certain map in competition, and I NEVER played Defense outside of fuxing around. If you couldn't ski around with the same skill as in T:V .. it's no wonder you like the easier sking ...

Aesop-The evil one said:
Player base plummeted in the first month of release, despite phenominal sales. In the end a few hundred people played T2 on the planet. T2 player base rose dramaticly after the free release of T1 and T2.
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?? Again .. did you even play T2 ?? The player base was steady throughout the first year of T2 .. More players came into the Tribes sceen, better leagues/ladders were formed (TWL / BEML), and leagues are still to this day playing T2 base and T2 Classic.

Aesop-The evil one said:
T:V comes out and despite the fact that a few hundred people play T2. the game has low sales. You blame T:V, I blame T2. T:V should have sold zillions of copies on name recognition alone.
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T:V "would" have sold better and "should" had sold better, were it not for the shitty ass gameplay, un-inspiring game-design, and flopped beta/demos/release. That fact is backed up with all the T1 and T2 vets that were soooo looking forward to T:V and with both those numbers combined, T:V should had been the best of all 3 ... but you see in the end what stupid ass management and dumbed down game-design got you ....

Devo_N said:
This is simply false, or stated by a player who was below-average even on a server like STAR. no maps had bases 2000 meters apart; 1200 meters was a very large map, and even that was ski-able very quickly (unless you were a complete noob that tried to walk the entire way).
The player base did NOT plummet in the first month; if you insist on claiming so, please produce hard numbers from verifiable sources. And the T2 player base did NOT rise at all after the free releases of either T1 or T2. (for one thing, the free release of T2 was fucked up, and the master servers were down for 1-2 weeks while the game was released). Sure T2 has but a few hundred players left, 3-4 years after the fact. That's more players than T:V.

Quite frankly, your claims about T2 are so factually incorrect that I have real doubts about whether or not you even played the game.
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needed a third repeat ....
 
kesh! said:
I love how everyone is analyzing the failure of t:v/'failure of t2' (big quotes around that) when in fact people should be working to make a better legends or move on with their lives

its over, tv killed tribes, now do something with your life cuz a patch won't fix the damage.
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shutup fag.
 
Aesop-The evil one said:
I say you are wrong. T1 was the game. T2 sold because T1 was very good, had an excellent player base, and we all bought T2 because we loved T1. T2 would be T1 with better graphics, we all knew it. We were wrong. It was very different from T1. It was very buggy. Many maps were unplayable, ocean maps were awful if you fell into the water. Ctrl k was your friend. Vehicle pads were TK fests because with out a vehicle you played defense, or walked 2000 meters. Player base plummeted in the first month of release, despite phenominal sales. In the end a few hundred people played T2 on the planet. T2 player base rose dramaticly after the free release of T1 and T2

T:V comes out and despite the fact that a few hundred people play T2. the game has low sales. You blame T:V, I blame T2. T:V should have sold zillions of copies on name recognition alone.
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To everyone disagreeing with this (The 3 or 4 of you):
Your saying that people didn't beat the crap out of each other to get vehicles? lol. That was one of the first things I noticed when I played. The vehicle pad was like its own arena coloseum on pubs. Without a grav cycle or shrike or whatever, it took 10 years to get across the maps without skiing.

I won't quote the exact size of T2 maps, but you can't refute that the maps were bigger, skiing was slower, and the turrets were stronger. Defense had an enormous advantage.

I don't know about player counts so I won't argue them, but the fact is you guys haven't shown any numbers either that are factual and prove him wrong.
 
Devo_N said:
This is simply false, or stated by a player who was below-average even on a server like STAR. no maps had bases 2000 meters apart; 1200 meters was a very large map, and even that was ski-able very quickly (unless you were a complete noob that tried to walk the entire way).
The player base did NOT plummet in the first month; if you insist on claiming so, please produce hard numbers from verifiable sources. And the T2 player base did NOT rise at all after the free releases of either T1 or T2. (for one thing, the free release of T2 was fucked up, and the master servers were down for 1-2 weeks while the game was released). Sure T2 has but a few hundred players left, 3-4 years after the fact. That's more players than T:V.

Quite frankly, your claims about T2 are so factually incorrect that I have real doubts about whether or not you even played the game.
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You can tell by the way you make things up that you're full of it. T2 maps were a breeze to ski across? Compared to what? Crossing the entire realm of EQ on foot?

Aesop is a bad player? How in gods name do you know that? Have you seen him play? Or maybe, you just don't like his opinion so you have nothing to really argue so you imagine and invent things to back yourself up. Saying you doubt he played the game is just childish. And saying that T2 had more players then T:V is both obvious and not any kind of good argument as almost any game had more players than T:V.

If you're saying T2 player counts didn't dwindle quickly, then YOU back that up with numbers and refute his point.
 
yeah in the later days of t2, it was no problem getting vehicles...but when the game was first released, holy crap it was insane....people would conc gren you off the pad so they could get the next spawn, people would tk you to get in a shrike, etc etc..
 
The Pumpkin King said:
Your saying that people didn't beat the crap out of each other to get vehicles? lol. That was one of the first things I noticed when I played. The vehicle pad was like its own arena coloseum on pubs. Without a grav cycle or shrike or whatever, it took 10 years to get across the maps without skiing.
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Sure when the game came out everyone, except the whiney, bitchy T1 vets that hated the game, wanted to play around with the vehicles. They were something NEW and they were FUN to play around with.

GASP!!!!

Damn, that's one of the signs a game just might be popular with the MAJORITY of people playing the game.

And that is total bullshit about taking forever to get across a map. The only armor that was slow was the HEAVY and it was supposed to be slow and lumbering. The heavy armor was never in a million years supposed to be a speed demon skiing. If a heavy was supposed to go a long distance they were supposed to hitch a ride in a vehicle. It's a thing called game design balance which the T1 vets never understood and Zodd threw out the window with his Classic mod.

The Pumpkin King said:
I won't quote the exact size of T2 maps, but you can't refute that the maps were bigger, skiing was slower, and the turrets were stronger. Defense had an enormous advantage.
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Yep, they were bigger because T2 was supposed to be an EPIC sized game with EPIC sized battlefields. Not these battles in a bottle we ended up with in T:V. The skiing was just fine it was the whiney, bitchy T1 Vets that were the problem because everyone else thought it was great.

And the turrets were just as easy to kill in T2 as they are in T:V. Two discs and a T2 deployable turret was put out of action. The problem was the Cowboys could never be troubled with taking out the turrets before making their runs. I mean it took too much effort to take 10-15 seconds to spam out the turrets. They had to get the flag without any interfearance. They were flag grabbers and they didn't want to have to deal with anything on their run. In otherwords they were lazy and lame. Truth hurts.

Hell, a Heavy in T2 could take out a deployable turret with ONE mortar while in T:V a mortar barely does any damage. Using a disc to take out a turret in T:V is better than using a mortar and that is stupid. A single heavy in T2 made a turret deployers life a nightmare so deploying turrets was almost a complete waste of time.

The Pumpkin King said:
I don't know about player counts so I won't argue them, but the fact is you guys haven't shown any numbers either that are factual and prove him wrong.
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Sheesh, anyone that has played T2 from the start on a regular basis knows what the player counts were. The people who are saying the player counts were low or dropped fast after release are people who DIDN'T really play the game anymore after they decided they hated it. So to reinforce their belief they will make up anything.

Hell, they were still optimizing and upgrading the master servers 6 months after the release of T2 so they could handle the load. During the first couple of months the T2 Master Servers were heavily overloaded because they didn't anticipate the game would have as big an opening as it did have. They were hoping to gradually increase server capacity as the game grew. But the game was an even bigger success than they ever hoped.
 
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Aesop-The evil one said:
I say you are wrong. T1 was the game. T2 sold because T1 was very good, had an excellent player base, and we all bought T2 because we loved T1. T2 would be T1 with better graphics, we all knew it. We were wrong. It was very different from T1. It was very buggy. Many maps were unplayable, ocean maps were awful if you fell into the water. Ctrl k was your friend. Vehicle pads were TK fests because with out a vehicle you played defense, or walked 2000 meters. Player base plummeted in the first month of release, despite phenominal sales. In the end a few hundred people played T2 on the planet. T2 player base rose dramaticly after the free release of T1 and T2

T:V comes out and despite the fact that a few hundred people play T2. the game has low sales. You blame T:V, I blame T2. T:V should have sold zillions of copies on name recognition alone.
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What? The Player base didnt plumment to the point where it was a few hundred people on the T2 planet. T2 at peak (Summer '01) was at average of 6500-7000. T2 at what i'd term its final breath (May '03) was at average of 3000. Is that alot, no of course not. But it didn't kill anything either.

And Pumpkin King, can you please not respond to PanamaJack. He has such an extremely eccentric view on this entire ordeal that is just unfeasible and at best reprsents 10% of the nature of what truly happened.
 
And that is total bullshit about taking forever to get across a map. The only armor that was slow was the HEAVY and it was supposed to be slow and lumbering. The heavy armor was never in a million years supposed to be a speed demon skiing. If a heavy was supposed to go a long distance they were supposed to hitch a ride in a vehicle. It's a thing called game design balance which the T1 vets never understood and Zodd threw out the window with his Classic mod.
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That single paragraph, in all it's lamed assed glory, is why sending PJ to the tribes council to discuss how to make the next version of tribes was a STUPID FUCKING IDEA.

Not that anyone there paid any attention to him. Rightfully so.

PJ thinks that T2 Base was the absolute best Tribes game ever created. He must conveniently forget all the times he'd pilot a havoc full of HOs all the way across the map, only to be shot down by a shrike either out in the middle of nowhere, or, even worse, crash and burn at the bottom of a valley to act like sitting ducks for all of the defense to chew up for free points. I know for a fact (having had to endure it all) that after repeated attempts to take one secondary objective in tis fashion, only to result in the same thing (getting blown up) he would just explode in anger, ranting and raving over roger wilco about how we all suck, and blah blah blah. The best fucking part was respawning back at the base, all piling into the same fucking bomber, only to have a shrike come buzing in and blow it up on the pad before we could even get going.

Balanced my fucking ass.

T2 base was the most frustrating game ever created. Endless games of nothing but 1-0 or 1-2. Expending huge efforts to get to the enemy base only to die at the hands of the 8 turrets and 7-8 LD.

But to PJ, it was perfect, the problem was the players were too fucking stupid to play it "right". Like always, PJ seems to think that he's right, everyone else is fucking wrong, and too dense to "get it". He's the God of game development, and anyone that disagrees with him doesn't realize what a genius he is.

That must be why he's awash in millions of dollars from designing the latest super mega hit game, geek groupies suck his dick 24/7, he's turned down job offers from Derek Smart, and the guys at Blizzard call him weekly for advice. Oh, wait.

PJ is a fucking moron.
 
Cavalier said:
What? The Player base didnt plumment to the point where it was a few hundred people on the T2 planet. T2 at peak (Summer '01) was at average of 6500-7000. T2 at what i'd term its final breath (May '03) was at average of 3000. Is that alot, no of course not. But it didn't kill anything either.

And Pumpkin King, can you please not respond to PanamaJack. He has such an extremely eccentric view on this entire ordeal that is just unfeasible and at best reprsents 10% of the nature of what truly happened.
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I remember counting up all the players (those in a game, no bots counted or those in chat) on the master server back in january 02 one night. It was over 3500 (that was an average of 5 players per server back then) when I stopped.
 
The Pumpkin King said:
To everyone disagreeing with this (The 3 or 4 of you):
Your saying that people didn't beat the crap out of each other to get vehicles? lol. That was one of the first things I noticed when I played. The vehicle pad was like its own arena coloseum on pubs. Without a grav cycle or shrike or whatever, it took 10 years to get across the maps without skiing.

I won't quote the exact size of T2 maps, but you can't refute that the maps were bigger, skiing was slower, and the turrets were stronger. Defense had an enormous advantage.

I don't know about player counts so I won't argue them, but the fact is you guys haven't shown any numbers either that are factual and prove him wrong.
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OMG!!! Here are the exact quotes I remember from the majority of T2 haters. These are the comments that shaped the Tribes game after T2. I'll introduce you to it... It's called T:V.

And now I'm sure I'm gonna get the same thing... T:V is NOT the game we wanted. We wanted T1 with better graphics!!!

Fuck you! T1 sucked in comparison to T2. It was innovative, but T2 innovated upon T1. That's why they called it an "upgrade".

You're just one more dick who refuses to adapt to something new. I'd be surprised if you have upgraded to water from sucking on your mothers nipples.

Upgrade or get left behind grandpa!
 
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I took great pride in policing the vehicle pad. I use to just hover nearby watching. Of course then we got raid/zadmin and 99% of all potential problems went away. I have a great idea, lets include that little feature in any future....oh wait.
 
How can you guys still be bitching about T1 and T2? Might be time to introduce TW to porn! Seriously, how long will you spend your time arguing the same points over and over?
 
I remember the T2 glory days! The vehicle pad was essential to winning matches, and it was essential to keeping the enemies VPad down at all costs.

T2 was about getting your team to work together. Something T:V and T1 could both take a lesson in.

At the end of the day, it's all about if you like Coke or Pepsi more.

The problem is that when someone tells you they like Pepsi more than Coke, it's no big deal. You could care less.

When someone tells you they like T2 or T:V more than T1 you guys are ready to decapitate and piss all over the corpse of the infidel.

Who the fuck really cares anyway???

Play what you like and fucking shut the fuck up and leave everyone else alone!

You aren't going to bring the people that have migrated to other Tribes games back acting the way you are.
 
TheRoDent said:
Rofl. You record any of those TS sessions Gandalf?
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Sadly, no. The IRC sessions after a match were even more priceless, but unfortunately, I never logged anything. We kicked PJ out of 4M at least twice for his ranting, screaming, hated filled "suggestions". Stupidly, we'd let him come back in, only to have to endure it all over again down the road. It was so bad we'd ask him to mute his microphone, but then he'd simply just type out his rants in text comms in game and save the real explosions for IRC later.

You can still see him playing T:V once in a while - spending 1/2 of his time typing out his rants and bitching instead of actually helping his team win a map. He just never EVER shuts the fuck up about how much the game sucks, his team mates suck, how everyone sucks, how Zodd sucks, how classic sucks, how the T1 vets ruined Tribes, and how right he was in everything and anything.
 
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