Miners to get new capital ship

-=TTC=-Spermme said:
Yeah and why cant you have a module you can deploy that can enter siege and knock out pos's.
Oh yeah, because thats stupid.
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Yes, that would be stupid because you're deploying it at someone else's POS. I'm talking about a POS I run & own, where one way or another(ship or array) there will be something anchored there compressing ore.
 
Helado said:
Reading some more of the dev posts makes it seem like they want it to be sitting in a belt with a bunch of miners with you giving bonuses and compressing ore. Meanwhile your using the bonuses to tractor in cans from your mining buddies. Only problem is that because of the siege cycle, that's 10 minutes that you could really get fucked, even with a scout unless you have a full defense. It's definitely going to be a risky venture to compress in a belt.

I still think it could be useful as such, just don't know how many will take the risk. For now I think it'd still be massively useful as a portable mining station in systems where you have a POS. Jump in to system POS, bonuses are currently system wide (although they said they want to change command ships and this one as well to move bonuses to on grid only), and you can compress ore in safety while you use your fully expanded itty V alt to haul. Dump compressed ore into a POS SMA/CHA or use a carrier doing constant jumps to a station if you are doing some insane mining.

I guess I don't see the size being an issue unless my maths are way off (I haven't mined in a long time). A perfect skilled hulk pilot with great bonuses does what, 4500 m3/cycle, even with a massive amount of hulks, you're going to have to worry about stripping belts faster and moving to new one's while the capital is stuck in siege than filling up all the available space in the ship. IMO.
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Nah. I think this ship is for stripping the ass backwards systems of everything. Need Pyriete? This makes it affordable to mine it.
 
they slightly nerfed the cargo capacity of carriers by not allowing cargo containers inside ships inside the ship maintenance array.

this will likely take over as the jump-hauler.
 
xi'Vexus said:
they slightly nerfed the cargo capacity of carriers by not allowing cargo containers inside ships inside the ship maintenance array.

this will likely take over as the jump-hauler.
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Not with the current specs it won't. Jump range at last check was 4ly vs. 6ly for a carrier, that's a huge difference once you factor in jump drive calibration. Though if that were changed, it would come down to what kind of tank the thing has, since no one wants to be running around hauling a ton of loot in a ship that can't defend itself in any way.
 
ViRGE said:
Not with the current specs it won't. Jump range at last check was 4ly vs. 6ly for a carrier, that's a huge difference once you factor in jump drive calibration. Though if that were changed, it would come down to what kind of tank the thing has, since no one wants to be running around hauling a ton of loot in a ship that can't defend itself in any way.
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Well, only idiots need a tank on a hauler cap.
Even if it just compresses ore, its a huge improvement. Send in 30km3 get back 6km3. do that 5 times and you now have 150m3 in the place of 30km.
Virge i am starting to think you suck at mining.
(This is where virge tells me all about his skills and how he has 2 hulks ect....)
 
Helado said:
Reading some more of the dev posts makes it seem like they want it to be sitting in a belt with a bunch of miners with you giving bonuses and compressing ore. Meanwhile your using the bonuses to tractor in cans from your mining buddies. Only problem is that because of the siege cycle, that's 10 minutes that you could really get fucked, even with a scout unless you have a full defense. It's definitely going to be a risky venture to compress in a belt.

I still think it could be useful as such, just don't know how many will take the risk. For now I think it'd still be massively useful as a portable mining station in systems where you have a POS. Jump in to system POS, bonuses are currently system wide (although they said they want to change command ships and this one as well to move bonuses to on grid only), and you can compress ore in safety while you use your fully expanded itty V alt to haul. Dump compressed ore into a POS SMA/CHA or use a carrier doing constant jumps to a station if you are doing some insane mining.

I guess I don't see the size being an issue unless my maths are way off (I haven't mined in a long time). A perfect skilled hulk pilot with great bonuses does what, 4500 m3/cycle, even with a massive amount of hulks, you're going to have to worry about stripping belts faster and moving to new one's while the capital is stuck in siege than filling up all the available space in the ship. IMO.
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cycle time of the indy core mode is 5 mins. thats gay.

A perfectly maxed hulk could probally do..2k or more now per strip.
Probally closer to 2500m3. The new mining upgrades that enhance your yeild by 25% each really rock.
So thats about 7500m3 per 3 minutes. Get 3 hulks, and your up to 22500m3 per cycle. So yes, you could out mine the cap ore ship,without it compressing ore, in 2 cycles.
But honestly, allowing you to haul 5x more then before is huge. They just need to the stats fixed on the hauler to make it worthwhile. Or give it good skill bonuses so that a good char can make it wortwhile.
Oh, i know 3 corps in my alliance who will get this thing even if all it does is improve shield transport. crazy miners.
(no spell checking, work work work :()
 
The two options I see are that it carries Hulks in its SMA and has the haulers jump systems, or it carries haulers and has the Hulks jump. Probably make the haulers jump, since it's a bit safer.

Anyway, this thing will most likely sit about 100km from a belt, within plenty of range to tractor in jetcans as they fill, then compress the ore and hand it off to nearby haulers, who would then head to whatever holding station is nearest, either in-system or a number of jumps out. The haulers are spared being in the belt in case of attack, leaving the Hulks and whatever defenders are around to remain stationary and do their jobs. No more being bumped by haulers and such.

BTW, the proposed fuel for the indy mode is either strontium or heavy water, so I've read.

Anyway, that's all I know. :)
 
-=TTC=-Spermme said:
to me, the whole thing is changed by if it can fit a cloak. Yes? then it can go anywhere.
No? Gay.
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I don't know of any ships that can cloak in siege mode. If you're going to use this thing as intended, you're going to be in a belt in siege mode compressing ore, which means you won't be able to cloak. Besides, even if you can cloak, there's a decent chance the enemy will figure out there's a CarebearCap out there and start preparing for it.
 
who says you need to be in the belt? Who says you cant leave your cap ship in a pos, with a iteron also. Jump in the iteron to bring the cans to the pos. jetcan, and compress then?
 
-=TTC=-Spermme said:
who says you need to be in the belt? Who says you cant leave your cap ship in a pos, with a iteron also. Jump in the iteron to bring the cans to the pos. jetcan, and compress then?
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If you're in a POS, why would you want to cloak (never mind you can't)? Cloaking implies you're in space, and furthermore with this ship would imply you're in a belt tractoring in cans.
 
I don't think CCP is designing this ship for you fucking miners to use it with your alt solo. So stop bitching about having to get another alt account just to cyno out and shit. They more than liekly intended it to be used by a corp in a corp mining op with the necessary ships used for protection if needed.

So boofuckingho if it sucks for you to able to kill off a whole belt of asteroids by yourself with just your alt accounts.
 
Code4 said:
I don't think CCP is designing this ship for you fucking miners to use it with your alt solo. So stop bitching about having to get another alt account just to cyno out and shit. They more than liekly intended it to be used by a corp in a corp mining op with the necessary ships used for protection if needed.

So boofuckingho if it sucks for you to able to kill off a whole belt of asteroids by yourself with just your alt accounts.
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indeed.
 
this will give ninja mining a whole new meaning.

jump in a fleet of 50 miners and capital miner ships in enemy terretory, mine for 30min, get the fuck out.

yarrr mining wars



( :yawn: )
 
I'm curious what this will do to the economy and market for raw minerals. Initially it seems like just another means of depressing ore prices (dump huge amounts of X onto a regional market) but hopefully they would anticipate that.

Then again, they've fucked up smaller changes.
 
Compression and Capacity

Capacity

Cargohold = 20,000m3
Corp Hanger = 10,000m3
Ship Maintenance Bay = 800,000m3 (restricted to industrials, mining barges, transports and exhumers)
'Assemblyline capacity' = maximum of around 600,000m3 (10 installed jobs not delivered)

Compression Rates

~20:1 for high end ores
~15:1 for 'medium' ores
~10:1 for low end ores
~8:1 for ice

so for a quick capacity calculation, multiply your total space by the compression rate. It averages out to between 2.6-6.4 hours of mining for 4 hulks.

Clone Bay

A lot of discussion around this, yes it is a powerful ability, and yes it is currently a one way trip, so you must factor in the clone cost to your profits bearing in mind that installing a jump clone on a ship is always without implants (new jump clone) unless you specifically plug them in after jumping to the ship.

We changed the cloning facility operation skill to add 15% max number of clones per level. In the case of the Rorqual, this means between 6-10 clones depending on your skill level. It also significantly boosts the max clones of the other moms and titans which is needed.

Additional Bonus

We added a 20% to drone damage and hitpoints per level in addition to the current bonuses. This enhances the rather low defences of the Rorqual enough to make it more comfortable at defending in some scenarios.

Cost

This has changed a fair bit since the blog was first released and is now higher than first conceived. I estimate from market prices of capital components in lonetrek that it will cost at least 1.85 billion.

The compression blueprints are designed not to be researched and have no wastage factor. They are also cheap, between 250k - 1.25mill as they are a requirement of the ship to function.

However, I would point out that with the mining foreman bonus for laser optimization, which is effectively a forth hulk for every three in gang (and who said your trained miner would go to waste flying it!Wink), that even the high initial cost is fairly reasonable when considering the time to break even with the additional bonuses and time bonuses through ease of logistics.

My personal opinion is this ship very much empowers the nomad operations as I call them whilst serving different purposes for different groups of people.
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Missed the bonuses as well

Capital Industrial Ships skill bonuses:

-5% reduction in fuel consumption for industrial cores per level

5% bonus to bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman gang links per level when in deployed mode

50% bonus to the range of Capital Shield Transporters per level.

20% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per level.

99% reduction in CPU need for Clone Vat Bay
99% reduction in CPU need for Gang Link modules
99% reduction in CPU need for Industrial Reconfiguration modules
99% reduction in CPU need for Tractor Beams
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Ballpark rigged, gsc, with 2x max expanded itty V's + hoarder nets you close to 200km3 of total storage space if you crammed every open space with cargo expander mods and ore, which means you could probably pay for the thing in about one - one and a half loads of high ends.

One guy in the devblog thread calculated something like 1.5bn isk worth of bistot in one trip if you fit for travel. (his maths, not mine).
 
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