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Automatic Jack
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Old
141 - 07-27-2010, 16:30
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Giving our government over to a militaristic elite and profiteering contractors who have no interest in anything but endless war could "threaten national security".

But then so could a rise in sea level.
 
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Hudson
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Old
142 - 07-27-2010, 16:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Data View Post
I do too, but the right and wrong of it doesn't matter. The rules for handling classified information are very well defined and strictly adhered to. They're in place for a reason, whether that reason can be (is) abused by the government or not. The courts won't give two ****s if this guy ultimately "did the right thing" or not. He willingly disclosed classified information, and that's enough to prosecute under the National Security Act.

There are other, more legal ways to blow the whistle in/on our government.
I meant the kid did what he felt was right. I have to respect him for that, he knew what he was doing could come back to bite him and he did it anyway.

The legality of it isn't what I was talking about.
 
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Data
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143 - 07-27-2010, 16:37
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If you think about it though... that's integrity. You see something wrong and you know it's wrong and you take action to stop it despite the consequences. And that's something the military preaches constantly.

Takes a lot of personal integrity and massive testicular fortitude to expose that kind of injustice.
 
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Denver
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Old
144 - 07-27-2010, 16:37
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how is one supposed to bring forth information about government level cover-up, clearly handing the data to government officials would not be the smartest move right?
so if you hand them to media, you end up in prison for life?
I am glad someone is willing to risk his life by exposing these crimes.
 
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Data
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145 - 07-27-2010, 16:43
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Originally Posted by Denver View Post
how is one supposed to bring forth information about government level cover-up, clearly handing the data to government officials would not be the smartest move right?
so if you hand them to media, you end up in prison for life?
I am glad someone is willing to risk his life by exposing these crimes.
I think you can tell your story to the media without handing them boxes full of government records or hours of gun camera footage.

There are agencies within the government setup to handle corruption, fraud, abuse... you name it. That may not be the fastest or easiest way to handle the situation, but it works. And let's face it, some people just want to make headlines.
 
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Hudson
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146 - 07-27-2010, 16:49
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Turning it over to internal agencies to investigate is the equivalent of covering it up. "Handling it in house" might as well mean sweep it under the rug.

The best way to ensure something is changed is to make it such a huge mess that it cannot be ignored.

Maybe not the smartest way for this guy to expose the problem but it was the best way to get something done about it.
 
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Validuz
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147 - 07-27-2010, 17:33
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Originally Posted by JuggerNaught View Post
No you didnt. You didnt know anything more than anyone else. You were talking out your ass with a 50% chance of being right. this is one of the few times you happened pick correctly and it was purely luck.
A 50% chance that a far-left liberal Democrat would end up giving the same results as Bush?

Oh boy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson View Post
This is teh dumbs, you're so infrequently correct that when you are, it's more of a miracle than the parting of the red sea.

I would bet money that the cubs will win a world series before you're right again.
... says one of the suckers that fell for Obama's bull****.

Hey, just like Van, you keep telling yourself that I'm the clueless one, when you can't even tell when a politician is lying. Whatever helps you sleep at night. Protect that ego.
 
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Last edited by Validuz; 07-27-2010 at 17:37..
|R|u|s|t|y|
VeteranXV
Old
148 - 07-27-2010, 19:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Validuz View Post
A 50% chance that a far-left liberal Democrat would end up giving the same results as Bush?

Oh boy.

... says one of the suckers that fell for Obama's bull****.

Hey, just like Van, you keep telling yourself that I'm the clueless one, when you can't even tell when a politician is lying. Whatever helps you sleep at night. Protect that ego.
All politicians lie.
 
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Validuz
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149 - 07-27-2010, 20:48
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Originally Posted by |R|u|s|t|y| View Post
All politicians lie.
Thank Captain Obvious. Politicians are people, and people lie.

The people voting for the politicians are supposed to be smart enough (which has absolutely nothing to do with academics) to determine which politician is lying the most and more importantly, about what. The people that supported and voted for both Obama and Bush lack that ability. Besides, most politicians don't have to lie, and there are some that are just flat-out honest (like Ron Paul). The other politicians, like Obama (and Bush in his younger years) in particular, are good speakers. They just leave room for interpretation or use wiggle wording...

"If elected, I promise to start bringing our troops home from Iraq!" (something like that) -- Obama

Now, all of the naive dip****s of the world start drooling over that statement. "OMG! He's going to end the war and finally bring our troops home! Yippee, we're like so tired of BushCo!!1"

Now let's break it down my way:

"If elected, I promise," okay, that's strong wording, so I hope you stick to it. "To start bringing," okay... wait, what? "Start bringing"? That's not very final. That's completely open-ended. Basically if in four years, he just starts a PLAN (not actually bringing them home) to bring them home, he has kept his 'promise.' So that's bull**** that only naive suckers would fall for. Next. "From Iraq," okay good, because we shouldn't be in Iraq in the first place... err, wait, so not from other countries and you can just bring SOME (2-3 total would do) home, and move the rest to another country?
 
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Last edited by Validuz; 07-27-2010 at 22:05..
Animo
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Old
150 - 07-27-2010, 21:58
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So has this war been debunked as another US failure yet? or are we going to keep drawing it out, making it worse and worse?

This generation of leaders are making themselves look quite foolish in the eye of history.
 
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ZOD
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151 - 07-28-2010, 05:14
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Originally Posted by Animo View Post
we going to keep drawing it out, making it worse and worse
Yes.
 
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Al'Muktar
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Old
152 - 07-28-2010, 09:05
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val, you're kind of a dick yknow
 
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Hudson
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Old
153 - 07-28-2010, 09:30
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He knows...

Val wtf is wrong with you.
 
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Detox.enD
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154 - 07-28-2010, 09:51
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he's just not capable of debating something without raging

and he's not capable of using this forum without raging.
 
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JuggerNaught
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155 - 07-28-2010, 09:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Validuz View Post
A 50% chance that a far-left liberal Democrat would end up giving the same results as Bush?

Oh boy.

.
No, a 50% chance that a moron would pull something out of his ass on a bulletin board that agreed with another moron. Actually as there were two morons involved, you probably had a 60/40 split going for you.
 
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Validuz
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156 - 07-28-2010, 11:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuggerNaught View Post
No, a 50% chance that a moron would pull something out of his ass on a bulletin board that agreed with another moron. Actually as there were two morons involved, you probably had a 60/40 split going for you.
You're approaching Dweasel on this one.

I'm guessing I'm the moron you're referring to (ironic, because I was the one who was right esp. on something so extreme -- but I expect this type of inconsistency from someone like you), but who is this other moron I was supposedly agreeing with? My alter-ego? Some otherworldly projection of myself from another dimension?

Please, further explain where your 50% odds came from. I'm very interested. Are you saying that 50% of all extreme far-left (or far-right) Presidents will flip-flop their ideals and decisions and change sides? Gee, with those type of odds, you'd think there would be hundreds of other posters that agreed with me. It's like (by your math), hundreds of us flipped a coin, and I'm the only one that called 'heads!'

When you finish building your world, can I come in and play at your casinos?
 
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JuggerNaught
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158 - 07-28-2010, 12:40
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Originally Posted by Validuz View Post
You're approaching Dweasel on this one.

I'm guessing I'm the moron you're referring to (ironic, because I was the one who was right esp. on something so extreme -- but I expect this type of inconsistency from someone like you), but who is this other moron I was supposedly agreeing with? My alter-ego? Some otherworldly projection of myself from another dimension?

Please, further explain where your 50% odds came from. I'm very interested. Are you saying that 50% of all extreme far-left (or far-right) Presidents will flip-flop their ideals and decisions and change sides? Gee, with those type of odds, you'd think there would be hundreds of other posters that agreed with me. It's like (by your math), hundreds of us flipped a coin, and I'm the only one that called 'heads!'

When you finish building your world, can I come in and play at your casinos?
No...im saying generally you're an idiot, and 100% of everything that falls out of your skull that resembles a thought has a 50% chance of being right, or a 50% chance of being wrong.

But you or anyone else doesnt know with 100% certainty what a new president is or isnt going to do before he's elected and only an idiot would think that he does.
 
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Automatic Jack
VeteranX
Old
159 - 07-28-2010, 13:28
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What trips me out is that people didn't already know this: it's war. War is hell. We chose to go to war, we chose to send people to hell. News that war leads to war crimes...wtf did we even bother with Nuremberg for if nobody remembers that?

Waging war unnecessarily is a war crime, and I personally don't see the necessity.
 
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|R|u|s|t|y|
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Old
160 - 07-28-2010, 14:17
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Originally Posted by Validuz View Post
Thank Captain Obvious. Politicians are people, and people lie.
Captain Obvious indeed.
I used it to point out the absurdity of your statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Validuz View Post
The people voting for the politicians are supposed to be smart enough (which has absolutely nothing to do with academics) to determine which politician is lying the most and more importantly, about what.
I fail to see what intelligence has anything to do with someone's ability to distinguish if a politician is lying or not.
How do you determine if someone is lying or not? Enlighten me.
Also, did you stop to consider that maybe Obama wasn't lying, but when he came to be president, certain things which were unknown to him before came to light; such that he couldn't hold some of his promises?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Validuz View Post
The people that supported and voted for both Obama and Bush lack that ability. Besides, most politicians don't have to lie, and there are some that are just flat-out honest (like Ron Paul). The other politicians, like Obama (and Bush in his younger years) in particular, are good speakers. They just leave room for interpretation or use wiggle wording...
All politicans use wiggle wording.
As the saying goes "A politician is someone who talks alot without actually saying anything." -- to paraphrase. Ron Paul might be exceptional in that respect, but we would never know until he actually becomes elected. Then you, like many ex-Obama supporters, might turn around and say "I didn't know it would really be like this.

A large majority of the American population are idiots. This is true for any country.

Just like a large majority of the people, or rather a large majority of black people who voted for Obama did it cause he was black, a large majority of Palin supporters who were soccer moms or feminists voted for McCain cause she was part of his campaign.
Also, alot of people voted for McCain cause they didn't want a black man as president.
I'm sure you can imagine the bible belt rednecks not wanting to vote for a "******".
To say that a large majority who voted for Obama lack the ability to tell what he was lying, about whatever, are idiots is illogical. Especially concerning the number of idiots who voted for McCain. If elected for, I'm sure he would have not done some of the things he said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Validuz View Post
"If elected, I promise to start bringing our troops home from Iraq!" (something like that) -- Obama

Now, all of the naive dip****s of the world start drooling over that statement. "OMG! He's going to end the war and finally bring our troops home! Yippee, we're like so tired of BushCo!!1"
It is what they wanted and it is what he promised.
How would they know without voting him in?
You say you know, but you really don't.
When I was young, I had an argument with my mother. I said someone (either Bush or Clinton) was gonna win the election. When said person won, I said "I told you so, I knew it".
She told me I didn't.
A few months later, we were with friends and I told them about this.
One guy said "But how could you really know?". It immediately sunk in that I hadn't actually known, since that was obviously impossible.
I was like 12 at the time.

There is no way for anyone to tell if someone is lying unless what they are saying is outragous.
 
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Last edited by |R|u|s|t|y|; 07-28-2010 at 14:20..
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Reload this Page US says Wikileaks could 'threaten national security'

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