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DC.
VeteranX
Old
1 - 08-11-2018, 17:59
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we should think of changing the chaingun to blaster, give blaster 100 bullets and no energy consumption, reduce the damage to something close to the current chaingun maybe slightly stronger like 3 or 4 or 5% stronger
 
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Last edited by DC.; 08-11-2018 at 18:18..
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wtf eat apples
VeteranXV
Old
2 - 08-11-2018, 18:47
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having the ability to vote to change the chain to blaster or plasma would be fun imo
 
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hyung
VeteranXV
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3 - 08-11-2018, 19:05
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i feel like blaster doesn't really fit the same role as the chaingun. blaster is insane up close and pretty garbage from far away. people keep suggesting it because they seem similar and sure try it out but i think it's a **** idea.

the problem with the chaingun was that it was the best weapon to use up close or on the ground, it didn't really matter. it brought no interesting dynamics because even if people were on the ground you would just chain them and there was no counterplay. the blaster is just an exaggerated version of this where it's totally useless at a distance and even better up close with even less counterplay.

i saw you asked on discord and yeah we nerfed the **** out of the damage on the chaingun. i don't remember what it is now but it's at least 2-3 more bullets to kill than before. now you can try to ground people with the chaingun and switch weapons and it creates a more interesting back and forth.

snow i'll implement this idea if you use an anti-cheat like everyone else does
 
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Last edited by hyung; 08-11-2018 at 19:13..
Laughing-Stork
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4 - 08-11-2018, 20:02
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Make blaster travel same speed as cg or even faster and then we talk
 
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hablamos_cítricos
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Old
5 - 08-12-2018, 01:10
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change cg to shotgun

ma in ur face shotgun blast
 
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DC.
VeteranX
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6 - 08-12-2018, 01:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyung View Post
i feel like blaster doesn't really fit the same role as the chaingun. blaster is insane up close and pretty garbage from far away. people keep suggesting it because they seem similar and sure try it out but i think it's a **** idea.

the problem with the chaingun was that it was the best weapon to use up close or on the ground, it didn't really matter. it brought no interesting dynamics because even if people were on the ground you would just chain them and there was no counterplay. the blaster is just an exaggerated version of this where it's totally useless at a distance and even better up close with even less counterplay.

i saw you asked on discord and yeah we nerfed the **** out of the damage on the chaingun. i don't remember what it is now but it's at least 2-3 more bullets to kill than before. now you can try to ground people with the chaingun and switch weapons and it creates a more interesting back and forth.

snow i'll implement this idea if you use an anti-cheat like everyone else does
the slower projectile speed of the blaster should make ground blastering ppl harder vs chaingun, and long range more difficult, both positives in my book. the zero spread should help a little though to balance this out and just makes it more skillful

blastering and chaingunning ppl at close range in the air should be about the same - pretty deadly.

lyon says u all tried this with full blaster damage. that sounds like a **** idea no doubt it would be OP. with a reduced damage i think it could be a good idea without changing the game 2 much but making chasing a bit harder to balance out the fukin netset
 
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Last edited by DC.; 08-12-2018 at 01:17..
DC.
VeteranX
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7 - 08-12-2018, 01:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laughing-Stork View Post
Make blaster travel same speed as cg or even faster and then we talk
slower projectile speed is the best reason to have it as a replacement for chaingun u doofus
 
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hablamos_cítricos
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Old
8 - 08-12-2018, 01:16
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make it a paintball gun so if u get headshot ur opponent is temporarily blinded enabling u to move in for the throat slice with ur bowie knife
 
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DC.
VeteranX
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9 - 08-12-2018, 01:18
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shutup
 
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Groove
VeteranXV
Old
10 - 08-12-2018, 04:09
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change chaingun 2 elf gu
 
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hyung
VeteranXV
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11 - 08-12-2018, 08:07
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC. View Post
the slower projectile speed of the blaster should make ground blastering ppl harder vs chaingun, and long range more difficult, both positives in my book. the zero spread should help a little though to balance this out and just makes it more skillful

blastering and chaingunning ppl at close range in the air should be about the same - pretty deadly.

lyon says u all tried this with full blaster damage. that sounds like a **** idea no doubt it would be OP. with a reduced damage i think it could be a good idea without changing the game 2 much but making chasing a bit harder to balance out the fukin netset
really if all you want to do is play with the blaster cause it would be fun then that's cool too and i'm sure it would be fun and i agree. but replacing the chaingun with the blaster to try to balance the chaingun is a lazy and bad solution to a non-existent problem.

first, i don't think the chaingun is strong at all - in fact numerically it's weaker than it's ever been in tribes history and there are fewer good chaingunners now than ever has been. i think it's understandable that psychologically it might affect you since you do get hit more often and i do empathize with that, but you're really not taking that much damage. if you overreact to getting hit and overswerve or ground yourself, then yeah i can see why it might feel oppressive but that's your fault, not the weapon's.

before the nerf, it used to take FIVE bullets to kill someone. a single bullet took 20% of your hp. think for a second about how unbelievably ridiculous that is when a disc takes only around 50% of your hp. now, and this is no exaggeration try it for yourself - it takes 10 bullets to kill someone. i think it's far more likely that the chaingun is too weak than it is too strong (but honestly i think it's in a good place. rtcll is scary with it, but that's reasonable, it's rtcll. nobody else is scary with it.)

i'm saying all of this from the point of view of a capper who not only benefits from the chaingun being weak but am the sole person who fought tooth and nail to nerf it to begin with and am the actual person who implemented the chaingun nerf and dealt with all the drama that came with it.

second, if it is too strong, the blaster is a **** replacement for the chaingun. it sucks from far away and it's good up close. great, so now we have more redundant weapon options from up close and zero weapon options from far away or at high speeds. if the chaingun is too strong then let's fix the chaingun - that's an idea i'm SUPER down for. i love talking about what we can do to make the chaingun better and less anti-fun. i don't know if people are aware of just how much we can play with and how trivial it would be to do. just by editing numbers in a text file we can play with the spread, the rate of fire, the projectile speed, the spin-up time, the flat damage amount, the amount of ammo, etc. think about the near-infinite combinations we have available. here are some examples:

- we could increase the rate of fire but keep the damage throughput the same - this could lower the skill floor since more bullets coming out means newbies have more opportunities to paint some damage on the target. this can also raise the skill ceiling since it would require a much steadier hand in order to get the same damage output. win/win right?
- we could narrow the cone but reduce the overall damage output. it would become more ineffective for dueling and standoffs but more reliable for chasers with good positioning. this would reward players in the scenario where it's most necessary and the chainer is at the greatest disadvantage (single chaser going after a capper), and reduces its effectiveness in the scenarios where it's most frustrating and the target is most disadvantaged (multiple players gunning a single target during a standoff).
- we could just straight up nerf it a tiny bit more through really basic and non-invasive tweaks. this would be the least dramatic course of action. lower the damage, reduce ammo, etc, nothing changes too much, everybody is happy.
- we could make it exactly like the blaster if we wanted. we could give it absolutely no cone, the same rate of fire, and same damage amount. the only difference would be the skin.

we can literally have all of these ideas available as menu options and we could swap these out between maps and iteratively learn what we like and don't like. we could make it so we can change the numbers in-game on the fly and even save pre-sets. "lyon's chaingun server preset", "stork's chaingun server preset". who knows, we might even find that which chaingun config is best depends on the map. we might prefer one type of chaingun on one map and another type of chaingun on another map. this is all just brain storming and mental masturbation but the possibilities are endless.

this is my brutally honest opinion as to why i think you perceive the cg to be too strong:
a) you think it's too strong because you're getting hit with more bullets (due to netset), even though you're not actually taking more damage. maybe you're overreacting from feeling the bullets and just need to adjust.
b) you really haven't been capping very long so you're blaming the chaingun which is something all bad / new cappers do. what elite level chasers are even around anymore? i'm sorry, is BLUMP or "fukn lawlz" lighting you up or something?
c) you weren't around when we nerfed the chaingun so you are just unaware of just how weak it is. you looked for something to blame, spent all of 10 seconds thinking about it, and now we have this thread (hur hur netset bad, blaster good).
d) i think it's funny as **** that someone who whored people for years with the original chaingun damage tried to cap for a month and complains that the chaingun is too strong.

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Flipp
Veteran4
Old
12 - 08-12-2018, 10:45
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fuk off n lern howta cg howbowdah
 
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Laughing-Stork
VeteranX
Old
13 - 08-12-2018, 13:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyung View Post
d) i think it's funny as **** that someone who whored people for years with the original chaingun damage tried to cap for a month and complains that the chaingun is too strong.

this is the anti-cheat we use, replace your tribes exe with this one:

[1.41] Tribes AfterHope by hyung - TribalWar Forums
 
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Laughing-Stork
VeteranX
Old
14 - 08-12-2018, 13:51
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I think we would find that CG is fine if we played some good pickups with it.

I think it's almost too weak at times and it's not as fun as it used to be. I wouldn't mind trying out some changes that lessen the damage per bullet but increase the accuracy to maintain a similar dps for those who can actually chain. I believe a modernized version of the 1998 chaingun would have a much smaller cone with the potential for deadly accuracy in the right hands. That sounds like something I would enjoy more than what we have currently. I'd rather miss because of lack of control than miss because the rng cone happened to make me miss.

There aren't many people who CG in pubs because of the taboo that's been created by those who believe it's OP.(stupid) I also believe some people dislike the chaingun because they are frustrated they can't chain as well as others. Imo if we freshen up the chaingun by increasing the accuracy and lessening the damage per bullet, we might take away some of the frustration that goes into the current model, thus increasing the fun for everyone.
 
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DC.
VeteranX
Old
15 - 08-12-2018, 14:01
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not surprisingly u responded with a rage post at the end.

ive been capping in LT PUs and pubs years before you became relevant (if you want to call it "relevant" in 2010+ tribes) just fyi. i am glad you caught up to being able to cap in LT with an epack like 5 years later you *****

im also not going to bother giving you (or stork) the perspective of someone who was half-way decent at this game when it mattered (not interested in hearing the 70 excuses the both of you probably have saved for why you were not good etc idgaf) and without the huge handicaps you all are playing with now, because we've been thru that 50 times so watever.

main problem i have is its prolly something close to hitscan in medium and medium-long range with appropriate netsettings.

i think you (or many others) have complained that tribes wasnt meant for 32 ping, so the solution was to give evryone a pseudo-32 ping - bright idea

blaster will be the closest thing to bring back some leading.

it will essentially be the same close range as chaingun but make it harder medim and long range requiring more leading
 
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DC.
VeteranX
Old
16 - 08-12-2018, 14:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laughing-Stork View Post
I think we would find that CG is fine if we played some good pickups with it.

I think it's almost too weak at times and it's not as fun as it used to be. I wouldn't mind trying out some changes that lessen the damage per bullet but increase the accuracy to maintain a similar dps for those who can actually chain. I believe a modernized version of the 1998 chaingun would have a much smaller cone with the potential for deadly accuracy in the right hands. That sounds like something I would enjoy more than what we have currently. I'd rather miss because of lack of control than miss because the rng cone happened to make me miss.

There aren't many people who CG in pubs because of the taboo that's been created by those who believe it's OP.(stupid) I also believe some people dislike the chaingun because they are frustrated they can't chain as well as others. Imo if we freshen up the chaingun by increasing the accuracy and lessening the damage per bullet, we might take away some of the frustration that goes into the current model, thus increasing the fun for everyone.

wat the fuk no

ok let me put it this way, the hit rates are *probably* too high for the chaingun. if you can change the projectile speed of the chaingun to make it slower that would prolly be a good fix and no need for blaster. + in addition reduce the cone if need be.
 
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Last edited by DC.; 08-12-2018 at 14:34..
DC.
VeteranX
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17 - 08-12-2018, 14:46
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FYI i think every single point from A-D you put at the end of ur post is 100% false

stop spreading fake news opsayo
 
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Laughing-Stork
VeteranX
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18 - 08-12-2018, 15:25
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You haven't liked the chaingun ever since people could chain you as well as you could chain them.

Is it not fun unless you have a huge advantage, snow? The smaller lead we have now is one of the advantages you had btw.

Also you are forgetting about inheritance. Chaingun is 100% while blaster is like disc and grenade - 50%. 50% inheritance with a slower traveling projectile is going to be aids at medium distances. So up the blaster inheritance to 100% and mess around with the damage values..either way it's a poor man's way of fixing the chaingun.(which imo doesn't need to be fixed)
 
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Laughing-Stork
VeteranX
Old
19 - 08-12-2018, 16:03
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this is 100% blaster inheritance - skip to like 0:23

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxoSQQIEXU0?t=23s
 
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DC.
VeteranX
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20 - 08-12-2018, 16:16
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what huge advantage did i have pre-netset again?? 90% of players had like a 60 ping or below and prolly 60% had 44 or below. y do u keep making excuses about ping when u and mostly everyone participating in PUs were also lpbs and didnt need to lead either really, with the exception of the euros and opsayo. not my prob if u could not chaingun with a 60 ping



bottom line:

you'll have to lead with blaster and u dont like this because u dont have to do it currently cause the bullets r so fukin fast and you failed at doing this pre-netset, even though we'll all still have polate and pft and whatever else in 2018 on even playing field etc so really blaster or a slowed down chaingun projectile shuldnt be an issue and youll no longer have any excuses to grasp for anymore
 
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Last edited by DC.; 08-12-2018 at 16:26..
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