Variable Velocities for Mortar Shots
- Thread starter Apotheosis
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Apotheosis
Veteran XV
ChaoStar said:
The army also does not use blasters or disc launchers or plasma guns (or burners) or multiple firing hand/shoulder-held guided rocket launchers or jet packs or armor capable of "skiing."
Zoolooman said:
I got the impression that the mortar's launch velocity is faster by the impression that the arc of the projectile was smaller (than T1 or T2). I based my impression of the smaller arc on one or two mortar shots I saw in the video displaying the AI firing mortars onto a platform, in single player. I could be wrong on both accounts though
Maybe Thrax can clarify?Zoolooman said:Agreed. This mortar did not go very far and had a good arc on it.
That clip does show a reasonable arc/range for the mortar, but it was not the one I was thinking of. Like I said, I could be wrong about the smaller arc or velocity... I'll try to find the video again. Just wanted to put a (new?) idea on the floor.
Starwind said:
You tell me something better to base my impressions on, and I will gladly consider your suggestion. In the meantime, I personally think it's a good thing to have a free flow of ideas and suggestions.
Thrax Panda said:
Actually, I think it's quite intuitive
The longer you hold down the fire button before releasing, the greater the exit velocity But you're the boss!
Bistromatic
Veteran X
I got an even better idea. When you select the mortar a velocity meter will appear on the side of your screen, with a slider constantly moving up and down, you have to time your shots correctly to get the velocity you want 
VaporTrail
Veteran X
I'd agree variable mortar shot power is a decent thing, however I doubt it would work with Tribes gameplay. The ONLY thing I can thing of to use it for would be time on target artillery. Fire a high power shot on a high arc, a lower power shot on a lower (but still high) arc, and a third shot at a low arc and low power. (I could manage something like this in T2, but only after some REALLY long prep time)
Three impacts from a mortar at the same time == severe pain. An HoF could survive it with a full shield pack, but only just.
Three impacts from a mortar at the same time == severe pain. An HoF could survive it with a full shield pack, but only just.
Apotheosis
Veteran XV
Zoolooman said:Agreed. This mortar did not go very far and had a good arc on it.
Aha, actually I just read this in another thread:
Thrax Panda said:It seems shallow because the range is huge. In the arena maps you can hit any part of the arena from anyplace in the arena right now. That may be a bit much.
The "arc" is defined by where you shoot. If you want more arc, look up. If you look up as far as you can, you'll actually shoot slightly behind yourself
C
Count Zero
Guest
Sorry man! But I think this is bad idea. It will only make mortar hard to aim.Let me explain why. :warp:
Mortar is essentially a hand-held artillery piece. One aims it at certain angle and fire huge green testicles of doom at the target. Now you can only calculate the angle because you know exit velocity of the projectile. If velocity is variable (you have this stupid sliding bar . . . or whatever) there is no way u can predict the correct angle and trajectory. I'll tell u right now that if Mortar projectile will have variable exit velocity 99.9% of ppl will be using a "max velocity" key bind as was suggested.
Now if there ever will be a problem of placing that green testicle of doom onto a higher level platform here is a simple solution use your jets to gain heigh advantage or if u still can’t maybe u’ll have to change your position.
Don’t take me wrong. 'Im not saying this is not a problem and I strongly believe mortar should have a high trajectory. But your solution is just waste of programmers time.
And since we are already talking about mortars. Maybe it will be good idea to have a remote detonation button for it. I know it was implemented in some mods. It’s hard to use but it's worth learning. :smoker:
Mortar is essentially a hand-held artillery piece. One aims it at certain angle and fire huge green testicles of doom at the target. Now you can only calculate the angle because you know exit velocity of the projectile. If velocity is variable (you have this stupid sliding bar . . . or whatever) there is no way u can predict the correct angle and trajectory. I'll tell u right now that if Mortar projectile will have variable exit velocity 99.9% of ppl will be using a "max velocity" key bind as was suggested.
Now if there ever will be a problem of placing that green testicle of doom onto a higher level platform here is a simple solution use your jets to gain heigh advantage or if u still can’t maybe u’ll have to change your position.
Don’t take me wrong. 'Im not saying this is not a problem and I strongly believe mortar should have a high trajectory. But your solution is just waste of programmers time.
And since we are already talking about mortars. Maybe it will be good idea to have a remote detonation button for it. I know it was implemented in some mods. It’s hard to use but it's worth learning. :smoker:
No, mortors are propelled by a fixed powder charge. Relative muzzle velocity is not variable. This would not seem realistic to me. Unless you have preloaded short, medium and long range charges it seems wrong. The complexity to have to choose or select from different range mortars does not seem like it would add anything to the game either.
There are few things more satisfying than shooting a mortar at an impossible high angle, getting killed, and the guy looting your corpse getting blown up by the mortar on its way down
Apotheosis
Veteran XV
Count Zero said:
You bring up good points Count Zero, and I will try to address them.
As far as being unable to predict the trajectory, I disagree with you. I feel that experienced players would be able to precisely aim their mortar shots even at varying angles with variable velocities. Games such as "Worms World Party" and "Gunbound" bank on the human ability to do this, as both these games are centered around one's ability to properly angle and "charge up" one's shot. Now I know that Tribes would take this ability into a first-person, three dimensional view, but I do not feel that this would impede with such an ability, as long the the player is a good judge of distances (which Tribes players need to be, regardless of whether or not this feature is implemented).
You also suggested that "99.9% of ppl will be using a 'max velocity' key bind," which I don't particularly have a problem with. I did not intend this feature to be a crutch or a disadvantage to newer players, but rather a way for more experienced players to have more room to grow into. I actually encourage the use of a built-in checkbox that will allow you to switch between fixed mortar exit velocity or variable mortar exit velocity, and would even say that the default should be set to "fixed mortar exit velocity," so as to not confuse the newbies.
I also don't think such an implementation would take up much of the programmers time at all... but what do I know?
RIV VER said:
Okay, I find arguments such as "it would not add to gameplay" or "it would be counterintuitive because..." or "that would make the weapon too strong/weak" to be justifiable arguments, but I have no idea why people keep bringing this up. You honestly find all the other elements of Tribes to be "realistic"?
*Even if* it were the case that you found everything else in Tribes realistic, I could *still* argue that a military in today's world could develop a firing mechanism that uses a variable amount of explosive powder, depending on how long a trigger button is held down. Also, where in the Tribes story does it say that mortars are fired by explosive powder? I find it hard to believe that humans would rely on explosive powders to launch their projectile weapons however many centuries from now... it just seems so primitive.
Anyways, thanks for your responses. I'm not married to this idea in any sense, but just thought it was something worth laying out. Now off to class I go!
K
Korialstraz
Guest
Dont do that crap - if u have to time how long ur holdin the mouse and this and that completely kills of effective spammage & makes it a bitch to use - will be to inconsistent - if u start chargin it up b4 the weapon is reloaded u might pass the level u want to fire it & you cant go back - also it would make the mortar fire to close with no power & too far with full power - i like ur intentions but the system you came up with is inapropriate
K
kirby6510
Guest
makeing a game "newbie frindly" is good, it givs new players a good start.
duming a game down so stupid ppl can play it to is retarted, this removes the skill from the game and makes it like quake, Bf1942 and CS... (not saying it takes no skill to play but far less then tribes)
duming a game down so stupid ppl can play it to is retarted, this removes the skill from the game and makes it like quake, Bf1942 and CS... (not saying it takes no skill to play but far less then tribes)
C
Count Zero
Guest
Apotheosis said:
A valid point
, but Tribes is not a turn based. Most of the time we have to use mortar while moving and we have no time to stop and think about angles and velocities. Don’t take me wrong I think this is valid idea, but I really hate how it is implemented in most games. Sliding bars gives you no real representation of velocity. I would rather have several settings for it lets say primary fire . . . standard mortar round (standard velocity..shallow trajectory)...alt fire a slow projectile, high trajectory. If I can make analogies to present weapon systems: primary fire-cannons(guns), alt fire-howitzers. Since cannons are good for sending projectile over great distance(oversimplification) and howitzer is used to hit targets out of LOS or to suppress enemy in trenches this will make mortar truly a versatile weapon. However since mortar already has good range it doesn’t really makes sense to change. The only thing I would like to see perhaps is ability to fire it at high angle and still maintain LOS on a target and decent reticle with rangefinder.
sometng like this
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Bah.
Real men don't need rangefinders.
Real men don't need rangefinders.
Bistromatic
Veteran X
Well, at least give us the option to turn it off,i find rangefinders relatively annoying (in my HUD, i don't care if anyone else uses them) and i could hit most targets spot-on on the first guess when standing still. When in motion, my accuracy didn't decrease much, but i guess people relying on range-finders would have a bit more trouble.PyroTeknik said:
C
Count Zero
Guest
Agreed! But its nice to have one. Not to mention it will make life easy for all new ppl after game is shiped.After all my bet is :devs want to attract more ppl to franchise. And i dont think that it will noobify mortar. It will make it easier to learn but still hard to master.PyroTeknik said:
By the way, there are so many scripts for T1,T2 out there that REAL MEN dont need!
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