T:V Rules of combat

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[57th]cneal

Veteran X
While I believe rules can also limit fun, I can't imagine tribes w/o some kind of base rules to make the game more fun, rules like when there is so many players on a team that all the rolls can not be fulfilled then do not destroy the gens (which I had brought up in a previous thread) etc. Anyway, since we're moving into the 3rd game series of Tribes, I believe that these rules need to be implemented into all servers in order to keep the peace and fun cycling w/o the need for a 24/7 admin to watch and yell at everything that we do.

So . . . this thread will be about the rules that we've implemented and followed by our trust that each and every tribes player will play a fair and honest game with the rules and keep the fun going! Any rules from Tking to base destruction should be built in to the servers and set on by default (not that the admin shouldn't be given the option to turn that feature off). This way, everyone can have a good time and enjoy Tribes for what it really is.

In summary: Post whatever rules come to mind (Tking, when not to destroy gens etc) etc.
 
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I beleive there have actually been some answers about this kind of thing in the Q/A's that have gone on. one that i remember distinctly was a way of automagically punishing someone who was misbehaving. The question reference TAC, or TAC2, and they said yes, they were looking at something like that.

The built in no-rape thing could also be a good idea. many admin mod's added it in T1 and T2.

IMO, the more options the better, just make sure that everything is configurable and toggleable so if you want to have a server that will let you TK like mad you can.
 
How about this, no fucking rules because your team sucks and it makes you unhappy. One option, randomizing teams at the end of an unfair match, or every 3 matches. Obviously this is geared to pubs, and I'm tired of seeing gay shit that just ruins the game. "DAR YOU MAGICALLY CANNOT DESTROY THE GENS BECUZ IT'S UNFAIR!"
 
random teams doesn't make balanced teams.

SquirrelOfDeath wrote a script for our short lived pub server that would balance the teams based on scores at the end of a map. This IMO is one step in the right direction.

There was another thread on here about keeping stats for players based on what they did in the last map and trying to balance the teams based on roles. There are some obvious problems with that too, but IMO it wouldn't be much worse than the current system.

I don't think there is anything wrong with having the option that a server could enforce a no-rape until x vs x rule on a pub server. If you don't like it turn it off.
 
jsut said:
random teams doesn't make balanced teams.
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If one team is capping out and the other is scoring 0, randoming will do just fine. As long as 50% of the players switch teams. It's possible the same several good players will be put on a team again, but that's life.

SquirrelOfDeath wrote a script for our short lived pub server that would balance the teams based on scores at the end of a map. This IMO is one step in the right direction.
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Anyone who does it based on score has never played Tribes apparently. Unless you're talking about team score, but that's what I already said. If it's 8-0 there needs to be switching, if there are consistent maps that are 6-4 or 5-3 or anything like that, no changing is necessary.

I don't think there is anything wrong with having the option that a server could enforce a no-rape until x vs x rule on a pub server. If you don't like it turn it off.
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Map design can avoid the problem. Any one-entrance, small base could be taken by a heavy or 2 and kept the whole game. You know how frustrating it is in Raindance to have 3 heavies sitting like little faggots on the top part mortaring anything that comes near?

Although T2 bases were uglier, they had many, many entrances and were more open, making it much harder for a base rape to go on the entire map. Another solution is to have multiple generators in different locations, as well as inventory stations. That way you never need to worry about rape as long as someone isn't lazy enough to repair every once in awhile.
 
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You sound like one of these l33tboyz who don't take into consideration that the other team doesn't want to keep repairing their gens on a 5v5. Really ruins the fun of a GAME.

Anyway, I think there should be a TK counter. These are the things that'll get you kicked:
2 Rifle TKs
2 Shocklance TKs
3 Hand grenade TKs
3 Blaster TKs
4 Plasma TKs
4 Disk TKs
4 Grenade Launcher TKs
8 Mortar TKs
15 mine TKs (if someone gets above 15, they're just placing mines in dumbass places)

Also, if one person steps on 5 team mines, he gets kicked. Stepping on a mine once or twice should make you watch what you're doing.
 
Ixiterra said:
If one team is capping out and the other is scoring 0, randoming will do just fine. As long as 50% of the players switch teams. It's possible the same several good players will be put on a team again, but that's life.
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randomizing is random, and by it's nature it won't necessarily end up with a more balanced set of teams than it started with. I've seen pubs that were balanced destroyed by teams getting randomized as often as i've seen the opposite.


Ixiterra said:
Anyone who does it based on score has never played Tribes apparently. Unless you're talking about team score, but that's what I already said. If it's 8-0 there needs to be switching, if there are consistent maps that are 6-4 or 5-3 or anything like that, no changing is necessary.
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I didn't say it was perfect, i said it was an option. Also note this was a script for T2, which has a much different scoring system than T1. It would probably suck pretty hard for T1, but for T2 it was much better than randomization.

Ixiterra said:
Map design can avoid the problem. Any one-entrance, small base could be taken by a heavy or 2 and kept the whole game. You know how frustrating it is in Raindance to have 3 heavies sitting like little faggots on the top part mortaring anything that comes near?

Although T2 bases were uglier, they had many, many entrances and were more open, making it much harder for a base rape to go on the entire map. Another solution is to have multiple generators in different locations, as well as inventory stations. That way you never need to worry about rape as long as someone isn't lazy enough to repair every once in awhile.
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Yes, i do know how frustrating it is to have heavies camping your base on raindance. Wouldn't it be hilarious if the server had a public play mode you could toggle that would kill anyone that was camping spawns after 30 seconds or so? Or that wouldn't let them destroy the Inv's or generators until there were some number of players on each team?

T2 is just as subject to idiots raping in 5 v 5 as T1 is. Why not just have a toggleable feature that makes it impossible for them to do that? As i said before, if you don't want it on your server, turn it off. I'm sure you are already more than aware that no one want's to have to be the guy on the team that is stuck repairing shit, so make it so no one as to, until the server has enough people on it to justify it.
 
jsut said:
randomizing is random, and by it's nature it won't necessarily end up with a more balanced set of teams than it started with. I've seen pubs that were balanced destroyed by teams getting randomized as often as i've seen the opposite.
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That's why I said to do it only when the team scores are obviously weighted towards one team. If the pub is already mostly balanced, no need to randomize.

I didn't say it was perfect, i said it was an option. Also note this was a script for T2, which has a much different scoring system than T1. It would probably suck pretty hard for T1, but for T2 it was much better than randomization.
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That would make a difference, but still not the most accurate system (anything going based on a computer interpretation of a player's skill is gonna be that way though).

Yes, i do know how frustrating it is to have heavies camping your base on raindance. Wouldn't it be hilarious if the server had a public play mode you could toggle that would kill anyone that was camping spawns after 30 seconds or so? Or that wouldn't let them destroy the Inv's or generators until there were some number of players on each team?
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So hilarious. My problem is I don't like hard-coded enforced styles of play. A good map design could easily make 5v5 rape a big waste of time.
 
Ixiterra said:
Map design can avoid the problem. Any one-entrance, small base could be taken by a heavy or 2 and kept the whole game. You know how frustrating it is in Raindance to have 3 heavies sitting like little faggots on the top part mortaring anything that comes near?
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That isn't a solution. A team of 3-4 people being forced to have to have 3 heavies guarding the base like that, in such an anal way, != fun.

You might enjoy it, but if thats a solution that they look at instead of just turning rape off i would be very surprised. 1 entrance = bad map design if you ask me. at least for pubs full of people, in smaller number sided compedative matches its a different matter.
 
I like the TK rule however, instead of getting kicked, how about you loose your weapons for the game and the only thing you're given are turrets. That way, if you're really bad at aim and you kill someone 4 or 5 times, you just get a slap on the face instead of being banished from the server.

Also, the number of turets you're given should be determined by how many players there are. This was also a good idea from T2.
 
Beren said:
That isn't a solution. A team of 3-4 people being forced to have to have 3 heavies guarding the base like that, in such an anal way, != fun.
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I'm not sure we're on the same page. I was talking about heavies base raping and being practically unstoppable because of map design. I was also taking from pub perspective, not 5v5.

You might enjoy it, but if thats a solution that they look at instead of just turning rape off i would be very surprised. 1 entrance = bad map design if you ask me. at least for pubs full of people, in smaller number sided compedative matches its a different matter.
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?? Enjoy what? Not sure what you're referring to. Even if Raindance had a door right around the back, it would still make it four times as hard to keep raped because the heavy would have to keep turning around, and he could have fire coming from two directions. Obviously a heavy isn't gonna try to keep the base raped for the entire game in 5v5. But either way, more open bases will make it harder to rape in 5v5 or a pub.
 
[57th]cneal said:
I like the TK rule however, instead of getting kicked, how about you loose your weapons for the game and the only thing you're given are turrets. That way, if you're really bad at aim and you kill someone 4 or 5 times, you just get a slap on the face instead of being banished from the server.

Also, the number of turets you're given should be determined by how many players there are. This was also a good idea from T2.
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I would just kick them... if someone is TKing, then gets the ability to set turrets, then they might just run around and put them in stupid places to use up the turret-limit. After all, TKers are just there to fuck with the team. They would also be taking up space on the server, making it so that a real player couldn't join if the game was at its player-limit.
 
Ixiterra said:
That's why I said to do it only when the team scores are obviously weighted towards one team. If the pub is already mostly balanced, no need to randomize.
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Even if you only randomize when the teams are stacked it is still quite possible that what you end up with after randomization is another set of stacked teams.

Ixiterra said:
That would make a difference, but still not the most accurate system (anything going based on a computer interpretation of a player's skill is gonna be that way though).
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I didn't say it would be the most accurate. I said it would probably be better than randomization.

Ixiterra said:
So hilarious. My problem is I don't like hard-coded enforced styles of play. A good map design could easily make 5v5 rape a big waste of time.
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I don't like it when mappers have to design maps so that they pub well. There are tons of maps in both T1 and T2 that are great for competition but can suck ass on a pub if one idiot decides to go camp a base. Those maps would be fine on pubs if the gametype had a mode making it impossible for that idiot to rape.

But whatever, it seems clear that you just don't agree with my idea, so yeah.
 
jsut said:
Even if you only randomize when the teams are stacked it is still quite possible that what you end up with after randomization is another set of stacked teams.
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Yes, but it's better than leaving teams the way they are. And dividing teams by player score is no better.

I don't like it when mappers have to design maps so that they pub well. There are tons of maps in both T1 and T2 that are great for competition but can suck ass on a pub if one idiot decides to go camp a base. Those maps would be fine on pubs if the gametype had a mode making it impossible for that idiot to rape.

But whatever, it seems clear that you just don't agree with my idea, so yeah.
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It's not your idea, it's been done to death. And no, I don't like it. It's a cheap hack when better designed maps will avoid the problem. And I didn't say to design maps so they pub well, it could go either way. I'm just saying not to design bases that are rape-prone. This will not affect a competetive match.
 
Ixiterra said:
Yes, but it's better than leaving teams the way they are. And dividing teams by player score is no better.
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Only if the personal scoring system is shit, like in T1. But what would i know, i've only actually seen the difference it can have.

Ixiterra said:
It's not your idea, it's been done to death. And no, I don't like it. It's a cheap hack when better designed maps will avoid the problem. And I didn't say to design maps so they pub well, it could go either way. I'm just saying not to design bases that are rape-prone. This will not affect a competetive match.
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It will because if all bases are a waste of time to rape, suddenly no team will ever need good HD. But if you play T1 you probably only cluster anyway and thus don't care.
 
How about instead of randomizing the teams, you only change the players that had joined for the last game. That way, if two friends join, they won't get seperated because the server decided to random the teams.
 
Kefka said:
You sound like one of these l33tboyz who don't take into consideration that the other team doesn't want to keep repairing their gens on a 5v5. Really ruins the fun of a GAME.

Anyway, I think there should be a TK counter. These are the things that'll get you kicked:
2 Rifle TKs
2 Shocklance TKs
3 Hand grenade TKs
3 Blaster TKs
4 Plasma TKs
4 Disk TKs
4 Grenade Launcher TKs
8 Mortar TKs
15 mine TKs (if someone gets above 15, they're just placing mines in dumbass places)

Also, if one person steps on 5 team mines, he gets kicked. Stepping on a mine once or twice should make you watch what you're doing.
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Enemy Territory's system should be used. Whenever someone TKs you you have an option to file a complaint against them. After someone gets a certain number of complaints filed they are kicked.
 
jsut said:
Only if the personal scoring system is shit, like in T1. But what would i know, i've only actually seen the difference it can have.
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What the fuck is the difference between scoring sytems? Excuse me for thinking T2 is a fucking FLAMING PILE OF HORSE SHIT, and using T1 experience, but neither of us know how T:V is going to work out anyway, do we?

Cappers will generally have low score due to not trying to kill, only cap, and commit suicide a lot.
LD's are going to have a low score because they're just trying to get the flag back.

Number of kills is never a factor in how skilled of a player you are. Cheap HO's that are absolutely worthless to the team can get scores of 80+ in SnowBlind. It does mean you know how to play, but it doesn't mean you're an asset to the team.

It will because if all bases are a waste of time to rape, suddenly no team will ever need good HD. But if you play T1 you probably only cluster anyway and thus don't care.
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Where the fuck did I say make bases a waste of time to rape? Only increase the difficulty required. One heavy with a repair pack shouldn't be able to lockdown a base until he runs out of ammo. What I did say is that the game shouldn't put magical forcefields in place to keep it from happening. You are.

Keep on speculating based on T2, and I'll keep on doing it based on T1, and we'll both probably end up being very wrong when T:V comes out.
 
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