T:V Rules of combat

jsut · Jun 7, 2003

Ixiterra said:
What the fuck is the difference between scoring sytems? Excuse me for thinking T2 is a fucking FLAMING PILE OF HORSE SHIT, and using T1 experience, but neither of us know how T:V is going to work out anyway, do we?

Cappers will generally have low score due to not trying to kill, only cap, and commit suicide a lot.
LD's are going to have a low score because they're just trying to get the flag back.

Number of kills is never a factor in how skilled of a player you are. Cheap HO's that are absolutely worthless to the team can get scores of 80+ in SnowBlind. It does mean you know how to play, but it doesn't mean you're an asset to the team.

Didn't i just say the personal scoring system for T1 was shitty? The script i was talking about was written for T2, and it's scoring system. It wouldn't work well with T1's scoring system. I can only hope that T:V has an even more well designed personal scoring system, and as such, balancing based on personal score would probably work ok.

Ixiterra said:
Where the fuck did I say make bases a waste of time to rape? Only increase the difficulty required. One heavy with a repair pack shouldn't be able to lockdown a base until he runs out of ammo. What I did say is that the game shouldn't put magical forcefields in place to keep it from happening. You are.

Magical force fields? I think you must have been reading another thread somewhere. All i proposed was a system that would keep 1 guy from fucking up a 5v5 pub by raping.

Ixiterra said:
Keep on speculating based on T2, and I'll keep on doing it based on T1, and we'll both probably end up being very wrong when T:V comes out.

speculating? All i was doing was posting some ideas. Why are you so freaking hostile all the time?

Ixiterra · Jun 7, 2003

jsut said:
Didn't i just say the personal scoring system for T1 was shitty? The script i was talking about was written for T2, and it's scoring system. It wouldn't work well with T1's scoring system. I can only hope that T:V has an even more well designed personal scoring system, and as such, balancing based on personal score would probably work ok.

What difference does it make? Depending on your role, you may have a high or a low score and still be a good player. In both games, score does *not* determine how much of an asset to the team you were. The only time your system would help is if it was a bunch of newbies versus a bunch of vets. With 50% randomization, there's a damn good chance that the couple of powerhouses that locked the game in one team's favor will be split up.

Magical force fields? I think you must have been reading another thread somewhere. All i proposed was a system that would keep 1 guy from fucking up a 5v5 pub by raping.

from earlier in the thread said:
T2 is just as subject to idiots raping in 5 v 5 as T1 is. Why not just have a toggleable feature that makes it impossible for them to do that?

That, to me, is the equivalent of magical forcefields. That's why I said instead of doing that, make the effort of raping outweigh the benefits. This doesn't require drastically different maps, just different base layouts. And raping would still easily be a viable option in a full pub, or possibly competition.

speculating? All i was doing was posting some ideas. Why are you so freaking hostile all the time?

When you throw out all logic and interpret what I said as something completely different, such as:

It will because if all bases are a waste of time to rape, suddenly no team will ever need good HD. But if you play T1 you probably only cluster anyway and thus don't care.

That's irritating.

jsut · Jun 7, 2003

Ixiterra said:
What difference does it make? Depending on your role, you may have a high or a low score and still be a good player. In both games, score does *not* determine how much of an asset to the team you were. The only time your system would help is if it was a bunch of newbies versus a bunch of vets. With 50% randomization, there's a damn good chance that the couple of powerhouses that locked the game in one team's favor will be split up.

If there are two people on the server that if put together will stack the pub under randomization they'd have a 50% chance of being on the same team. If those two players were the top scorers on the server in the last map, SoD's script would put them on opposite teams. That all depends on the scoring system for T:V being a somewhat decent gauge of whether a player was a benefit to their team. T1's doesn't, and T2's kind of does but can be improved upon. If T:V does improve upon the scoring, i don't see any benefit in using a pure randomization approach over than of balancing via personal score. Note the If.

You say "50% randomization" above. What exactly does that mean?

Ixiterra said:
That, to me, is the equivalent of magical forcefields. That's why I said instead of doing that, make the effort of raping outweigh the benefits. This doesn't require drastically different maps, just different base layouts. And raping would still easily be a viable option in a full pub, or possibly competition.

I guess you missed this:

another quote from earlier in this thread said:
Yes, i do know how frustrating it is to have heavies camping your base on raindance. Wouldn't it be hilarious if the server had a public play mode you could toggle that would kill anyone that was camping spawns after 30 seconds or so? Or that wouldn't let them destroy the Inv's or generators until there were some number of players on each team?

I don't see any problem in making bases easier to retake. That's never been the issue. My issue is that when you are playing in a 5v5 pub no one wants to have to retake their base, and often, if one idiot does decide to go rape it ruins the pub for half the people there.

Ixiterra · Jun 7, 2003

jsut said:
If there are two people on the server that if put together will stack the pub under randomization they'd have a 50% chance of being on the same team. If those two players were the top scorers on the server in the last map, SoD's script would put them on opposite teams.

If they were the top scorers. Once again, in both games, top score does not mean you were useful. LO's and LD's rarely have the top score when there are HO's around. Not to say that HO's aren't useful, but they can easily be useless just as often as useful.

That all depends on the scoring system for T:V being a somewhat decent gauge of whether a player was a benefit to their team. T1's doesn't, and T2's kind of does but can be improved upon. If T:V does improve upon the scoring, i don't see any benefit in using a pure randomization approach over than of balancing via personal score. Note the If.

It's pretty much impossible to determine based on score. Even if T:V improved upon it, people would abuse it to get higher scores (in pubs) to look better. Still doesn't mean they did anything useful for the team. A computer-based system can't figure that out.

You say "50% randomization" above. What exactly does that mean?

50% of the players from each team will be changed. Randomly. Only when the team scores are ridiculously weighted to one side.

I don't see any problem in making bases easier to retake. That's never been the issue. My issue is that when you are playing in a 5v5 pub no one wants to have to retake their base, and often, if one idiot does decide to go rape it ruins the pub for half the people there.

The thing is, with a better designed map, *one* idiot would not be able rape the base. Not unless the entire other team was inept. And if so, there's not much you can do about that. Making the generators invincible does not help that team learn how to play effectively.

jsut · Jun 7, 2003

Ixiterra said:
The thing is, with a better designed map, *one* idiot would not be able rape the base. Not unless the entire other team was inept. And if so, there's not much you can do about that. Making the generators invincible does not help that team learn how to play effectively.

In a 5 on 5 setting any newb with a half decent route can rape. Especially if the flag stand is more than 50 meters away from the base.

Kefka · Jun 7, 2003

I think Ixit is just trying to look like he has some "skillz" for being allegedly able to do things that none other can do... like defend the base in Dangerous Crossings. Damn, you need some pussy.

Anyway, there's going to be dickheads who abuse everything you implement into a game. If you want to play a game that's not abusable - go put your Tribes CDs in the microwave. I think team randomization is a great idea... most people who score gobbles of points are actually doing something.

However, I think people should be able to form mini-teams. In the player-list screen, you could mark another player as "group member." They would have the mark you as a group member also. When the game starts, it'll put best efforts to put you and your group members on the same team. This way, you won't be split up with your buddies when the map changes.

Zoolooman · Jun 8, 2003

Shut up Kefka. Nobody wants you trolling Ixiterra because he has argued with you before.

Plus, your group member idea says, "Hay guys, we want to make it EASY to stack pubs. Awright!"

T:V Rules of combat

jsut

Contributor

Ixiterra

jsut

Contributor

Ixiterra

jsut

Contributor

Kefka

Zoolooman