Nice 1.1 Write up on all features etc being added (holy shit)

Smaqaho said:
How does one tell others in their group how to dps more if they can't always tell who the weak link is? If you know who the weak link is and it's a matter of poor GCD usage, without a damage meter-type addon and combat logging how do you help that person make the leap from terrible to acceptable?

Without a way to tell how well your damage stacks up against others, you don't know if you're the one failing or if it's someone else. You could use every possible GCD even in WoW but if you aren't doing it well it will show in combat logs/meters/parses. If you're lagging behind you can then compare your output to others of the same spec and class and hopefully improve your rotation.

To better explain it, if I'm running the same spec in the same raid with the same buffs as another person we should have similar damage output for most encounters. When shit dies and I'm 10k DPS ahead of them I can look at their output and know that they fucked up their rotation or spell priority. In SWTOR right now for all you know you're the one that's 10k DPS behind. When you can see people of other specs playing poorly (with damage meters) you start analyzing their damage breakdown with people of the same spec that play well and you can then help them. Without those tools, they can say that they finished their storyline to level 50 playing the way they do and assume they can do no wrong.

He's not asking for the game to play for him, just for some of the basic tools that allow people to evaluate their own performance and that of others so they can improve their experience in the game. Things like more visible buffs/debuffs should be a no-brainer, but the game shipped unfinished or some of us are foolish to think the game will have any success beyond the first 90 days after release.
Click to expand...
i cant believe you actually typed this much about not being able to play a game without modding the game to tell you how to play it
 
Actually what he said was that the addons help improve the performance of players and this improves the experience for a lot of players. I assume you were just trolling though.
 
Pagy said:
so again, l2p...

playing with crutches like dps/agro meters and boss mods seem like such a bore.

it's a video game for fuck sake... if you just want to turn your brain of and discect it, you have a seriously odd sense of fun.

I have no idea how anyone enjoys playing with dps or agro meters when it's much more challenging and rewarding to hold agro or dps hard enough without some easy mode bar telling you what to do and when.

hit an enrage timer? dps more. woah that was tough to figure out.
Click to expand...

Not sure if serious...

Sounds like you're the one who wants to "turn your brain of" and just press whichever keys fancy you at the moment. All I'm asking for are the basic tools to let me analyze the gameplay of myself and those I group with so we can all perform better. If the notion of objective measures of performance in a game that is, essentially, a fancified number generator scares you, don't look at the numbers. Just push the buttons harder.
 
Eventually they will get raid/instances right. My biggest problem with the game is just how boring it is while leveling. The story missions might be interesting but ultimately every side quest is "Thank god you're here we fucked up and need your help to complete this mission we failed on."
 
DeadlyRabbit said:
Actually what he said was that the addons help improve the performance of players and this improves the experience for a lot of players. I assume you were just trolling though.
Click to expand...
I'm sure it does improve the experience for all of the people that can't play without flashing lights and large bars telling them how to play. how else would the shitty wow players get by?

then again this is a video game, not work.
 
PoorDoggy said:
Not sure if serious...

Sounds like you're the one who wants to "turn your brain of" and just press whichever keys fancy you at the moment. All I'm asking for are the basic tools to let me analyze the gameplay of myself and those I group with so we can all perform better. If the notion of objective measures of performance in a game that is, essentially, a fancified number generator scares you, don't look at the numbers. Just push the buttons harder.
Click to expand...
analyse gameplay?

it's a video game. if you don't know how to dps perhaps tetris is more your thing.
 
Pagy said:
so again, l2p...

playing with crutches like dps/agro meters and boss mods seem like such a bore.

it's a video game for fuck sake... if you just want to turn your brain of and discect it, you have a seriously odd sense of fun.

I have no idea how anyone enjoys playing with dps or agro meters when it's much more challenging and rewarding to hold agro or dps hard enough without some easy mode bar telling you what to do and when.

hit an enrage timer? dps more. woah that was tough to figure out.
Click to expand...

Pagy, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

"Damnit we wiped. What went wrong?"

"I'll tell you faggots what went wrong, some of you loser idiots didn't DPS hard enough!"

"err.. hard enough?"

"YES Motherfucker! You feel like you are going to wipe, you fucking DPS MORE"

"wait.. you just said hard and now you say mo.."

"FUCK YOU! Listen to me faggots. No one here should be measuring anything! Only assholes and cocksuckers measure DPS! Now let me qualify that statement by suggesting only terms that are defined as a unit of measurement as a solution!"

"But that would mean.."

"It would mean go fuck yourself I'm right and you're wrong! If anyone needs me, I will be eating dinner, unless I get more hungry in which case I will be eating harder"

"But how do we DPS *more* if we have no way to measure where we are at or even how to get to *more* ??"

"MRAAAAH! I'M #1"
 
Joemomma5000 said:
Pagy, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

"Damnit we wiped. What went wrong?"

"I'll tell you faggots what went wrong, some of you loser idiots didn't DPS hard enough!"

"err.. hard enough?"

"YES Motherfucker! You feel like you are going to wipe, you fucking DPS MORE"

"wait.. you just said hard and now you say mo.."

"FUCK YOU! Listen to me faggots. No one here should be measuring anything! Only assholes and cocksuckers measure DPS! Now let me qualify that statement by suggesting only terms that are defined as a unit of measurement as a solution!"

"But that would mean.."

"It would mean go fuck yourself I'm right and you're wrong! If anyone needs me, I will be eating dinner, unless I get more hungry in which case I will be eating harder"

"But how do we DPS *more* if we have no way to measure where we are at or even how to get to *more* ??"

"MRAAAAH! I'M #1"
Click to expand...
i wouldn't expect a wow addict and shitty gamer to understand how not to treat this video game like a second form of employment
 
Having played inferior raiding classes, I'm anti damage meter. It sucks when you aren't even given the opportunity to raid because of your class, and on the same token, a class with more utility shouldn't be able to have the same dps as a glass cannon. I still remember being pissed that my Shammy could never outheal a druid, even though he did half the work to get there.

That's the problem with mmo's though, you design the toughest raids and you have to min max.
 
I'm 400 biochem, but I'm glad they're nerfing it, even though they need to nerf stims instead. The bonuses are too good to really ignore. I want to try another skill on my alt, but a free stim that never runs out is a huge, huge, advantage.
 
Pagy said:
i wouldn't expect a wow addict and shitty gamer to understand how not to treat this video game like a second form of employment
Click to expand...

So you don't know what you're talking about, and when people call you on it, you try to make fun of them to save face?

Dude grow up; we're not 18 anymore. If you want to have fun and enjoy the subforum and talking about the game, I recommend you stop being such a faggot before you dethrone Feannag as biggest tool on tribalwar (at least the subforums).
 
They need to figure some way to let us know when we're doing it right. Hell, build in a practice dummy linked to an in-game meter or something - anything so that I can see what rotations do what.
 
Excel said:
They need to figure some way to let us know when we're doing it right. Hell, build in a practice dummy linked to an in-game meter or something - anything so that I can see what rotations do what.
Click to expand...

If you've run out of the metric your abilities cost: you've done it wrong.
 
Joemomma5000 said:
So you don't know what you're talking about, and when people call you on it, you try to make fun of them to save face?

Dude grow up; we're not 18 anymore. If you want to have fun and enjoy the subforum and talking about the game, I recommend you stop being such a faggot before you dethrone Feannag as biggest tool on tribalwar (at least the subforums).
Click to expand...
a few thoughts
1) i laughed at the thought of you playing the "im lord of the subfoums" card
2) it's a game, it should be about fun, not about either being told how to play or spending hours analysing the mutual benefit of going with 1% more crit or % more accuracy. is your life not busy enough that you feel a need to turn a video game into a job?
3)trolling aside, i fully understand the argument and the contribution that a dmg meter or boss mod would make. it's obvious. I just dont agree its necessary.

it's simple. surround yourself with good players, and this isn't an issue.

if you surround yourself with shitty gamers that can't figure out an attack rotation either on their own or online, then yes, you need a mod to literally tell you how to play.

i've already said to my friends in instance i LOVE the lack of boss mods and dmg meters. its great, it leaves so much to the unknown and so much up to the player. i already have friends that kill bosses before the timer, some not before the timer. it doesn't take a pie chart to tell me where the issue is.
 
Pagy said:
a few thoughts
1) i laughed at the thought of you playing the "im lord of the subfoums" card
2) it's a game, it should be about fun, not about either being told how to play or spending hours analysing the mutual benefit of going with 1% more crit or % more accuracy. is your life not busy enough that you feel a need to turn a video game into a job?
3)trolling aside, i fully understand the argument and the contribution that a dmg meter or boss mod would make. it's obvious. I just dont agree its necessary.

it's simple. surround yourself with good players, and this isn't an issue.

if you surround yourself with shitty gamers that can't figure out an attack rotation either on their own or online, then yes, you need a mod to literally tell you how to play.

i've already said to my friends in instance i LOVE the lack of boss mods and dmg meters. its great, it leaves so much to the unknown and so much up to the player. i already have friends that kill bosses before the timer, some not before the timer. it doesn't take a pie chart to tell me where the issue is.
Click to expand...

1) I just don't understand why you can't just be civil, just calm down and stop trolling everything you see

2) You are pushing your opinion on fun and gaming as correct and telling others that their opinion is wrong. You keep taking the extreme side of ultimate min/maxing as the only opposition, and completely ignoring what the vast majority of us want which is just some simple metrics to measure how we're doing. People appreciate feedback and like to do well at their hobbies. You may like to swim just to get in the water but you can't fault or make fun of people for wanting to time their laps, or accuse everyone that does of only doing it to become olympic swimmers. Some people just like to know where they stand and work to improve themselves. That's their prerogative.

3) To be honest, there aren't a lot of shitty gamers here (on TW, and more specifically in this sub forum). Most of the people here were in Silens, STK and/or TC (or some other solid endgame guild) and know what they're doing by default (hell most tribers in general are better than average gamers). I wouldn't worry about anyone in SWTOR's TC. The problem you come up to is when you wipe on a boss at 5%. Then at 8%. Then at 19%. Then at 3%. What is being done differently? Do you just keep DPSing 'harder' hoping for the best? To you, yes. To others, they'd like to know. Can't fault either side really, that's how they enjoy the game (and this isn't even remotely close to min/maxing yet, this is just introductory feedback).

I personally want some basic numbers but not all WoW had. I can't stand Gearscore and I think it killed Pubbing in WoW (which for someone casual like me who only raids on a random weekend etc is a big deal). I agree that I'd rather people have more fun and a group lose 3% dps than have everyone re-roll specific classes and talent specs.

But I also want to know what the hell just crit me for 5k, how I am doing DPS-wise, what my biggest crits were, etc. I may not want to min/max, but I want to know that I am at least contributing.

SWTOR (currently): |
Current WOW: X
What I want for info: O
Nothing [---|-----------O------------------------------X-] Everything
 
by all means compare a game thats been live for a month to a game thats been out for 7 years or w.e. They should be exactly the same or else the new game sucks total balls.

You can point to all these things(little in my opinion) that have been left out, but there are so many things that were included compared to tons of other MMOs at release. Most of this stuff isn't preventing you from doing it, its just not providing you with what you believe is an optimum experience. You CAN raid, you just can't do it as well as wow cause it doesn't have all the other shit available.

original wow had barely anything at release for max levels and ppl played it non stop. Now obviously there should be progress but i have no doubt SW will keep enough ppl to keep this a very active game once all this is sorted.

Swtor has done a very good job and has a fairly long leash from me to get this little stuff added.
 
I can see both points of view. I like the game fresh. Last night, we entered into Gav Daragon with an 8 man group and pretty much did the whole place in normal mode, which equates to WoW LFR as it was incredibly easy. We were set back by buggy encounters, doors that won't open, and bosses that won't reset properly (Soa).

We didn't do any readups or look for specific mechanics before attempting the fight. We just kind of tried to avoid them as we went. I can see why some people may consider tools like DMs or TMs to lessen the risk of trying new content as well. You suck? Remove you from raid. This one sucks? Replace with better. It was all new last night without tutorials and video guides for our purples.

However, certain classes REALLY need mods like Powerauras, or an in-game mod like Powerauras. It is absolutely horrendous sitting there looking at your bars for procs. It completely detracts from the fun of WATCHING your abilities go to work on a boss. You end up just staring at CDs from bars, procs on top of your buffbars, and making sure you're not standing in shit.

"Oh ok, I'm still on the boss' ass, let me go back to looking at my bars."
 
Back
Top