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FalseMyrmidon
1700+
Old
41 - 08-26-2008, 12:22
Made a list of the more basic heals each tree improves for a Zealot/Shaman (this would also apply to Runepriest/Archmage)

Alchemy
Instand Heal (Flash of Chaos)
3s Heal

Witchcraft
Damage Shield (about 1/3 as strong as shaman counterpart and with a very small heal at the end but usable on anyone, not just groupmates)
heal+hot

Dark Rites
Leaping Alteration (hot that jumps from person to person)
Group Heal


Mork
Hot + Heal
DOT/HOT
3s Heal
Damage Shield (only on groupmates)
Group Heal

Was planning on playing a Zealot since they are intended to be the closest thing to a pure healer (they were described as "flex healers" in beta) but unfortunately it looks like a Mork Shaman will be a better pure healer than a Zealot of any spec. Seems like they have the trees backwards and Shamans should have 3 healing/damage trees (since they're a healer/nuker) and Zealots should be the ones with a pure healing tree.
 
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Last edited by FalseMyrmidon; 08-26-2008 at 12:36..
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Falhawk
VeteranXV
Old
42 - 08-26-2008, 12:38
i played a chosen over the weekend, it was cool.

However I'm curious to know what are the differences betwen black orc and chosen? Is it more situational? Also does anyone have experience with tanking while using a 2h weapon (for either class).
 
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FalseMyrmidon
1700+
Old
43 - 08-26-2008, 12:40
Losing a shield is losing a ton of damage avoidance (block is seriously awesome). Unless they changed it two handers generally weren't worth the loss in survivability.
 
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Yawnfest
Veteran5
Old
44 - 08-26-2008, 13:19
I dont get why in the zealot masteries not a single one improves the insta cast HoT for 15 seconds. That is the best heal spell they have.

The Zealot shield is so crappy. It shields like nothing, has a long cooldown (20 seconds?) and the heal when the shield dies is very small too. If someone is getting focused it is barely a "oh ****" spell b/c the instant heal does almost as much. Needs to be twice the current size for it to serve its purpose.
 
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Last edited by Yawnfest; 08-26-2008 at 13:21..
FalseMyrmidon
1700+
Old
45 - 08-26-2008, 13:30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yawnfest View Post
I dont get why in the zealot masteries not a single one improves the insta cast HoT for 15 seconds. That is the best heal spell they have.

The Zealot shield is so crappy. It shields like nothing, has a long cooldown (20 seconds?) and the heal when the shield dies is very small too. If someone is getting focused it is barely a "oh ****" spell b/c the instant heal does almost as much. Needs to be twice the current size for it to serve its purpose.
The instacast hot is a core spell for all healers. It gets automatically improved up to where it would be if you had 15 points in the mastery associated with it.
 
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snow
VeteranX
Old
46 - 08-27-2008, 02:52
I believe the idea with the zealot is that they should be capable healers taking any tree, whereas shaman would have to put points into their healing tree to be a good healer. Which is why the shaman has his healing buffs all in one tree, but the zealot has them spread around.
 
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Mangle-Me-Elmo
VeteranXV
Old
47 - 08-27-2008, 06:23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falhawk View Post
i played a chosen over the weekend, it was cool.

However I'm curious to know what are the differences betwen black orc and chosen? Is it more situational? Also does anyone have experience with tanking while using a 2h weapon (for either class).
the main difference is that blak orcs and the ppl who play them are more awesome

you can't tank w/o a shield since your 20% block blocks all damage magic and physical
 
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Falhawk
VeteranXV
Old
48 - 08-27-2008, 06:25
well we do need a tank...
 
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ragingbunny
VeteranX
Old
49 - 08-27-2008, 10:39
What are your guys' preferences btwn Black Orc and Chosen?
 
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Shadow13
VeteranX
Contributor
Old
50 - 08-27-2008, 11:34
I tanked as a black orc using a 2hander in every single instance in game just fine.

People who say you "Can't" tank with a 2hander either need to get out of the old eq mindset, or need to find better pocket healers.

With that said, it is a bit easier for the group if the tank is a chosen with a shield. The thing is, what are you going for?

If pure tank, then of course use a shield.. but the loss of damage for the bit of increase in survivabilty wasn't worth it in pvp, nor was it a big deal in any of the instances running with the same group I ran with for the time I was in beta.

the best instance group we ran with was 2black orcs, a dok, 2 shaman and a marauder. None of them were using shields and we were flying through content like butter.
 
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FalseMyrmidon
1700+
Old
51 - 08-27-2008, 11:48
If the content was actually hard you would need to use a shield for the about 20% avoidance it gives . From a PVE standpoint the increased hate you're going to be generating from using a two hander probably isn't going to be worth losing the avoidance from a shield for.

And yeah, if you want to do damage use a two hander. If you want to tank use a shield. Not rocket science .
 
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DacTheHork
Veteran++
Old
52 - 08-27-2008, 12:44
There are some very good tank abilities on black orc. I wouldn't write it off.

With the right build you can get near 100% block chance while channeling Can't hit me.
 
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Jamezeo
VeteranXV
Old
53 - 08-27-2008, 13:35
i love wearing a shield doesn't gimp you in this game

hell you can even level with one

seemed like going 2hander was the nub thing to do
 
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Falhawk
VeteranXV
Old
54 - 08-27-2008, 14:03
hrm
no
 
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Shadow13
VeteranX
Contributor
Old
55 - 08-27-2008, 14:06
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamezeo View Post
i love wearing a shield doesn't gimp you in this game

hell you can even level with one

seemed like going 2hander was the nub thing to do
use worldlogger and parse the damage difference and mitigation differences then ask which was the "nub" way to go lol.
 
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DacTheHork
Veteran++
Old
56 - 08-27-2008, 15:19
Yeah a majority of tanks will go 2 hander. At the same time shield has decent abilities like +50% block while channeling at only 15 ap a sec, and +10% block tactic etc. There will be a reason to go them, overall though 2 h damager seems the way to go overall. Since even though they say tanks will actually tank no one on their right mind is gonna kill a shield wielding tank first unless there are no other targets in range. Also save the runts works with 2h.

also mitigation != shield since it is blocks not mitigation.
 
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ragingbunny
VeteranX
Old
57 - 08-27-2008, 15:22
I'm going all PvP (with a group of 4, 1 caster dps, 2 healers)
 
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FalseMyrmidon
1700+
Old
58 - 08-27-2008, 15:28
Quote:
Originally Posted by DacTheHork View Post
Yeah a majority of tanks will go 2 hander. At the same time shield has decent abilities like +50% block while channeling at only 15 ap a sec, and +10% block tactic etc. There will be a reason to go them, overall though 2 h damager seems the way to go overall. Since even though they say tanks will actually tank no one on their right mind is gonna kill a shield wielding tank first unless there are no other targets in range. Also save the runts works with 2h.

also mitigation != shield since it is blocks not mitigation.
I believe avoidance (parry, disrupt, dodge and block) work with guard too.
 
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Mangle-Me-Elmo
VeteranXV
Old
59 - 08-27-2008, 17:34
shield doubled my survivability on black orc with 20% block and then an abilitiy with it equipped to buff my armor up to almost 75%

and you definitely get targetted when the ppl attacking your squishies are all snared and taunted/detaunted and gaurd is up so they can only hit them for 17
 
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Mangle-Me-Elmo
VeteranXV
Old
60 - 08-27-2008, 17:40
also, see how well you're still holding up later against heal debuffs

yes, you can be a tank with a 2h, but you're not really tanking

you're dps
 
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