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Goshin
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Old
221 - 06-17-2012, 23:40
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my immigration policy is super liberal and open...
 
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VF143Falcon
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Old
222 - 06-17-2012, 23:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Togowack View Post
Not that government is efficient, but you can either shove tax payer dollars down the drain or use it somewhat
Or you could LET THE ****ING TAX PAYERS KEEP IT. Dumb****.
 
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Tom Bombadill
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Old
223 - 06-18-2012, 00:23
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Goshin, I like the changes you are proposing.. however:

I disagree with your policy regarding education. I think that once you hit High School, education should not be required. The value of a diploma is so weak now because schools are encouraged to just pass kids on. Many kids simply don't want to be there. Let them go to trade schools or learn lessons in other ways (hard work) After a while I think a diploma would truly mean something again, students would be taking responsibility for their own educations. If school is voluntary at least the student is more self-motivated
 
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Goshin
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Old
224 - 06-18-2012, 00:28
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doesnt japan do that and have a big truancy problem

or worthless teenager syndrome ?
 
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ScooBySnaCk
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Old
225 - 06-18-2012, 00:29
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Yeah
What do you know about Mitt Romney? [VIDEO] | The Daily Caller
 
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Tom Bombadill
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Old
226 - 06-18-2012, 00:35
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Alright well than there should be some brainstorming done on better incentives to get kids to perform better in schools.

Compromise. Change. Goshin 2014
 
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MeSlayer
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Old
227 - 06-18-2012, 00:45
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okay look if your going to post as tom bombadil i demand everything you post be in a nonsensically rhyming format with use of gratuitous amounts of exclamation points

i mean, really
 
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Tom Bombadill
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Old
228 - 06-18-2012, 00:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeSlayer View Post
okay look if your going to post as tom bombadil i demand everything you post be in a nonsensically rhyming format with use of gratuitous amounts of exclamation points

i mean, really
I apologize for my former manner!!!

Yet this is really no laughing matter!

The students that America is getting

Ah Hoy! It's more like baby sitting!!
 
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Goshin
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Old
229 - 06-18-2012, 01:01
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Phrozen
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Old
230 - 06-18-2012, 02:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wowbagger View Post
Oh, not this again...
If he is going to advocate alternative voting systems the least he can do is not conflate two different flawed methods, and at best he can support the one that actually addresses the problem at hand.
 
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Wowbagger
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Old
231 - 06-18-2012, 04:01
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Give people a "range" of 0-100 to assign each candidate and numbers 1-99 will basically be unused.
 
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BionicBooger
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Old
232 - 06-18-2012, 04:18
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I have an opinion that america has always been ****ed. The propaganda that is pumped into you from an early age while standing up and saying the pledge in grade school everyday to everything you hear in the media over the years such as "america is the greatest" and "god bless america" does a good job of making you believe it. It was never as great as people said it was.
 
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ScooBySnaCk
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Old
233 - 06-18-2012, 04:38
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wow..saying your pledge of allegiance is propaganda?
 
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skysnipe
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Old
234 - 06-18-2012, 05:11
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Master_01
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Old
235 - 06-18-2012, 05:49
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coming in late on this thread but...

mexican energy is pretty cheap.
 
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Apathy
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Old
236 - 06-18-2012, 06:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
well they do contribute to society, entertainment events
they do both, those that want to compete, compete. maybe they get more cigs that day or something i dunno.

i skipped very few times until college.

i can see your point though about being a little heavy handed there. However with year round schooling, there should be sufficient breaks to let kids be kids throughout the year, rather than just huge blow off areas in the winter and summer.

but chronic skippers should be dealt with
if you mean highschool, i passed with a 4.0 and attended 40% of my total classes, i wasnt actually supposed to be allowed to graduate because i didnt make minimum attendance in any class except biology.

if you mean college, people pay for that **** its their own fault if they dont go.
 
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tehvul2
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Old
237 - 06-18-2012, 07:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
America is ****ed. We're a hollow shell of the greatness instilled in us by our forefathers decades and centuries past. This ship needs turning around, the the 545 captains and chief admiral can't get the job done, and never will be. We need a new solution. One captain, one admiral. One surrounded by advisors. We need a benevolant Dictator. We need me.

Here are my course corrections:

politics -

2 terms. 6 year senate, 4 year house. 12 and 8 total. Campaigns last 2 months. It's all public money, you get no private cash. The only ads you get are mandated ads, say 5 tv spots on the major networks. It's the price the networks have to pay for being broadcast in america, tough ****. You want more face time, hold debates with your opposition.
No more winner takes all. Equal representation based on voter percentages.
To be ABLE to compete, applicants must first take a test proving they are competent.
Lobbyists are no longer granted the statuses they have. They are experts in knowledge only. no bribes, no trips with officials to soften them up. If people are caught circumventing this law, they are crippled with an injury that is permanent, and noticable. If they continue on this path, they are shot.
We need industry experts to help form policy. We don't need their corruption.
MORE POLITICS:
The reason politicians back in the day only worked 4 months a year, was because they had farms and businesses to attend to. They were a politician for 2 terms at most generally. This has changed, and the work load should also change. This is now a full time job, you're in session most of the year.
And, no bull**** riders that have nothing to do with the pending legislation attached to said pending legislation. Create a new bill for that. If it isn't strong enough to pass, merge 5 riders together and pass that.
STOP ****ING AMERICA, POLITICIANS

education
Firstly, school for everyone will be year long through elementary, and maybe middle school (8th grade). Studies have shown the poorer househould children suffer significant set backs over the period when school is out, this will help children feel worth and that they are smart and ****. Will lend itself to less drop out rates, and hopefully begin balancing education between the classes that exist in america.
Religion will be barred from influencing science texts and any other class that does not need to focus on this subject.
Teaching to the test does not work and breeds complacency, as well as leads to disinterest in learning. Lets go back to what elites did in the 17th century. Have kids read articles, books, whatever. Not once, but a few times. Then have them keep a journal about what they think on the subject. Have discussions based on their thoughts. The teacher is there as a facilitator. This helps children learn critical thinking and insight. Honestly, they dont need to read Shakespeare if they dont want to. But if they know how to read, interpret, and broaden their knowledge enjoyably, they might stumble across and love the classics when they are ready.
Finance classes in highschool are a must. Maybe 9th grade just to catch the kids that do drop out, which will hopefully be lower. Sex ed focuses on condom usage and other birth control methods. Teenagers have sex.
PE to become mandatory again. 1 hour of running around outside, having fun and learning that not everyone will win at everything. Get your feelings hurt and strive to improve yourself, or get picked last forever.
If you're a kid and not in school, and we come across you during the day, there is punishment. Crippling is a no, apparently. Repeat offenders are publicly humiliated in a stockyard outside the school

food
get rid of the ridiculous amounts of sugar and sodium in our foods. That **** is not needed. Food tastes AWESOME by itself. Perhaps we can go back to having bakerys and mills local to population centers, as bread now days compared to bread 100 years ago is nutritionally bankrupt.

taxes
Our tax law books are stupidly huge. Abolish that bull**** and make a flat tax coupled with a luxury tax in addition to, as well as certain exemptions for basic necessities of life. Loop holes should get demolished this way. Estate tax for everyone. Trust funds dont give you a permanent tax haven.

sterilization
Children are sterilized with a drug that needs to be created and tested around age 10. Doctor will administer during routine exam. If this does not work due to people circumventing or not going to doctor, we can figure something else out, maybe at birth. Anyway, once the child passes a test showing they comprehend basic parenting skills, life skills, and money management, they are given the 'cure' and can have kids. After 2, must apply for a permit for more children, barring financial consideration. This should limit or abolish abortions and that debate, and children ruining their lives because they didnt know better. Also welfare should decrease substantially, and might even be used for it's intended purpose!

energy
wind energy is semi stupid. Ocean energy is crazy awesome. We would begin using more ocean current capturing technologies. Nuclear power would be the mainstay on land. Coal would be unsubsidized and used until the existing plants are too old to work. Funding for a Polywell fusion reactor would begin, with the intiail 200 million needed for a proving reactor after tests that are being worked on right now show promising data (sometime in 2011 or 2012). If this works, all coal plants will be converted (easily) to polywell fusion plants. energy crisis diverted. Otherwise, nuclear, ocean, solar. Wind in limited means. Upgrade the power grid.

transportation
A few things fall into this. More buses, bicycles, walking. Urban centers to become dense. Halt all new production on surburbs and giant sprawling cities. existing boundarie are it. Build up, not out. Businesses on the ground, condos in the sky, spaced with parks in the structure with open windows and soil/grass. Begin work on closed loop systems to allow these parks to remain effecient. Hydro farms on any levels would also exist, allowing cities to have fresh produce at a price and convenience unmatched in today's world. This dense population will then be able to walk to most places they need to go, take the buses if needed a bit more, or bikes/cars for longer distances still. No additional highway spending to suburbs. They dug their own hole.

subsidies
Corn and oil/gas/coal and other ag, are all out. No more. Corn is found in every thing we eat, and it is nutritionally bankrupt. Make it dumb to plant, farmers will move into better crops and our health will improve. Biofuels made from organic materials that actually have a high % of return will be used as well, such as the best crop for the job, sugar cane (and hence why Brazil's biofuel sector actually works)

Immigration
Amnesty for all illegals right now. Rework the immigration laws so less people attempt getting in illegally. They're going to do it anway, might as well tax them and keep records on them, make them citizens and have them utilized by the economy.

military
America is done being world police. We move out of Osaka, Germany, South Korea, the philipines. We pay for use of other people's zones for refueling if need be. But if some rogue nation starts being stupid, we're out. They cant hit us with rockets. Let their neighbors man up. Tired of being damned if we do, damned if we dont. Russia might invade germany!!!!
You're the 3rd biggest economy, deal with it. This drops our funding for defense by a metric **** ton, allowing us to pay off our giant **** ass debt, or start to anyway. Cuts to social programs will help as well (since welfare is not needed now that you cant oops have babies accidentally or for money).
This area will need more refining of course
Apparently we need to ban women from the military, or make them the same as male troopers. Same bunks, same showers, Starship troopers.
Of course, coupled with the fact that I strongly believe in mandatory service for all americans from 18-20, not sure same bunk/shower would work. So a ban on women might have to go into affect.
But mandatory service right after highschool. Not for a conscript army (they suck), but to increase health in americans, and instill discipline. There would still be those that sign up, they will be combat units. The 'conscripts' here will be base units, non combat roles generally. Because again, they suck.

space
we have researched plans into nuclear rockets, but pussies who dont know what they are talking about scream and cry and hinder progress. Nuclear Lightbulb Spaceships capable of lifting 1000 tons to Low Earth Orbit, single stage rocket, reusable, get to Mars in 30 days (maybe less i cant remember)
Actually begin to get off this planet and do **** in the final frontier.
The closed loop systems in our high rises can be utilitzed in our space fairing endeavors.
Telescopes in L2 with big ass mirror arrays to begin searching for life, for real in neighboring star systems. If space companies need additional funding for send projects into space, or if said projects once vetted and approved need funding, fund these. There is no reason to cripple science into this area when we spend billions on CORN.


PRISON
We have all these gigantic arenas pre-built in america. It really is silly to only use them for a few things.
Let me take you back to a simpler time, 2000 years ago.
We can have our stupidly large prison population begin a series of gladiatoral events, to the death if need be. using traditional weapons from the iron era, and suitable armors and defenses. Broadcast on tv, arenas seat a lot of people. winner gets a reduced setence or something. All prisoners not participating in the games will be tasked with learning a trade in prison. You go to classes where they teach you to do ****, build **** (the wire). When you are freed, there is no stigma. You do not disclose you went to prison. If you being repeat offending, the punishments ramp up, to 3 *strikes* and you are put in the games, regardless of your means or desire.

drugs
Decriminalize all drugs. legalize weed. Portugal has done this and seen extremely great results in the areas of addiction treatment and consul, and decreased ODs and diseases that are spread. This will also drop the prison population

Israel
Pull all funding from this first world nation. We can trade with them like normal people. They dont get more than our human space flight in AID anymore. This should help quell those in the middle east, and maybe make Israel act rationally and not be a ****ing dumb ass bully bull**** state


I will surround myself with advisers who pass tests relating specifically to what they are advising me on. No friends or family will be hired just because they are that. If they have new ideas, different ideas, that seem to work better than my general beginnings, i will not be inflexible and will use the best path possible in forging a new, stronger america.

Thank you.
Goshin im going to bed now but when i get up I will prove to you that the majority of your ideas listed are stupid. Which sucks because I consider you one of the best and smartest posters here at tw.

Sent from my Kindle Fire via Tapatalk V2
 
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triple
VeteranXV
Old
238 - 06-18-2012, 08:46
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sounds like benevolent oppression.
 
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Denver
VeteranXV
Old
239 - 06-18-2012, 08:51
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I vote for tehvul2 as it's infinently better than tevhul1 + new version is always better than the old one.

Might change my vote for goshin2, but as it's not on the markets yet I won't bother.
 
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Phrozen
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Old
240 - 06-18-2012, 11:01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wowbagger View Post
Give people a "range" of 0-100 to assign each candidate and numbers 1-99 will basically be unused.
That is a possibility, but the other systems still allow strategic voting with much more disastrous results.

Quote:
The DH3 "Dark Horse plus 3 rivals" pathology

Many voting system "pathologies" or "paradoxes" or "bad behaviors" have been noticed over the years. But some are more worrisome and damaging than others:

The most damaging ones are those that cause the worst possible winner to be elected. (Of course, even if they cause the second-best winner to be elected instead of the best, that also is bad. But not as bad.)
The ones that are most damaging arise often in actual practice.
The DH3 pathology is a very very bad pathology by those measures, and it affects a lot of voting systems. (In view of its frequency and seriousness, some would not use the word "affects." They would use the word "destroys.") In particular most (every?) "Condorcet method with full A>B>C>ииииии>Z rank-orderings as votes" suffers from DH3. (That includes BTR-IRV, Tideman's ranked pairs, and Schulze's beatpaths systems.) Also, so does the Borda system. Permitting equalities in vote-rankings, using either winning votes or margins, does not avoid the DH3 pathology, although I initially thought they might work for that purpose. (Answers to questions about that.) But range voting, plurality, and IRV are immune to DH3. In the example below, strategic Range Voters would simply rank one of A,B,C max and everybody else min. C would win.

What is DH3?

It is simply this. Suppose there are 3 main rival candidates A, B, & C, who all have some good virtues. This happens a lot. (In fact, whenever it doesn't happen, the situation is uninteresting ***8211; only 2 real contenders ***8211; and we almost might as well just be using the plurality voting system.) Let us suppose support is roughly equally divided among those three, say 31%, 32%, and 37%, although the precise numbers do not matter much. Suppose also there are one or more additional "dark horse" candidates whom nobody takes seriously as contenders because they stink. For simplicity assume there is only one dark horse D, but what we are going to say also works (indeed works even more powerfully) with more than one.

Now, what happens? The A-supporters say to themselves: "We are in trouble. Polls suggest A is going to lose if we just vote A>B>C>D as is our honest opinion. But if we exaggeratedly vote A>D>B>C downgrading A's main rivals as far as we can, then maybe A will have a chance." The B-supporters say "those rotten A-supporters for sure are going to exaggerate and effectively get twice the A-versus-B discriminating power as if they were honest. We cannot sit still and just take that. We have to fight back by also exaggerating: B>D>C>A." And similarly the C-supporters say "we will not just sit back and be robbed of our deserved victory by those dishonest exaggerating scum. We will also exaggerate: C>D>A>B." (And by the way, they are completely right. C would definitely lose to A or B if they just sat there.)

Incidentally, some purists may quibble: why did the A-fan voters decide to exaggerate? Well the C-fans felt forced to do so because, given that the A- and B-fans already chose to exaggerate, the C-voters knew that C could not win without exaggeration. But all three kinds of voters do not know what the others are going to do and how many of them are going to do it (nor even how many of them there are), and hence have to guess, and their guess is "most of those rotters are probably going to exaggerate"! So based on this guess, they feel they too must exaggerate to get any chance of victory. (And that feeling is always accurate in the sense that, if some appropriate fraction of the opposing voters exaggerated, then [1] our candidate would be sure to lose to a rival, but [2] by such exaggeration we could regain the victory.)

The result of the new exaggerated votes is: D, the worst candidate in the eyes of all, wins the election. Guaranteed. As we said, this happens with the Borda system and also with every Condorcet method.

In contrast, with range voting the A voters will exaggerate thus: A=99, B=C=D=0, and if everybody acts that way, then C will (deservedly) be elected. (There is no advantage a range voter gains by dishonestly scoring D above B and C ***8211; this can't help A win versus B and/or C and simply incurs risk that D will win. But there is sometimes advantage for Condorcet or Borda voters.) C also wins with IRV and plurality. This is an example of the fact that range voting is designed to exhibit only a mild degradation in reaction to dishonestly-exaggerated "strategic voting." With Condorcet and Borda, the allergic reaction is not mild: it is "anaphylactic shock."

How common is this? Very common ***8211; every situation with 3 near-equal good rivals and one or more other (less-good) candidates is fodder for DH3. I.e. whenever it is not merely essentially a 2-man race. Here is the (amusing?) story of how DH3 happened in the only serious-stakes ($100,000+) ranked-ballot vote I was ever involved in. DH3-like phenomena were also immediately observed in the only government in the world (Kiribati) that tried Borda voting.
 
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