[Feedback] HO, Rape and Bases

Currently I think the bases are too small and shallow. The HO can rape the gens within seconds of entering the base, if they have to enter at all!

If the bases were deeper/bigger, the HO would have to travel further to get to the gens, and so give the defence some time to stop them.

Take Winterlake for example. What if the generator was down below through a hole, sort of like in Raindance?

In Cavern the gen room could be continued on a little, turning left into the rock face. There the generator would be safe from outside spam.

As it is, the HO arrives at the base and immediately takes down every piece of equipment there. The defence then take him down quickly and start repairing. By the time they've got everything up, the HO is back at the door again.

I'm not advocating recalescence style bases, but at present I feel they are way too simple and easy to rape.

With at least 2 people repairing since you can quickly get the repair pack off of the wall (which is an excellent feature since a HO can take down a lot and quick), your team should be able to get everything up and put up defenses before the HO gets back. Just takes a little teamwork.

Especially with Winterlake, since there is no rover.

I like the HO/RAPE balance as it is now.

Less devistating for long periods of time than in previous Tribes.

Really I like the HO/repair dynamic in T:V, a good HO can take down the base in about 12 seconds, hold it for as long as he can, then once he's dead, the other team can recover in less than a minute.

KillerONE said:

I like the HO/RAPE balance as it is now.

Click to expand...

I agree. I think the time that it takes a heavy to get all the way over to the base helps balance out the insane damage they can do by plopping a mortar into the entrance. Once they're inside the base it's only a matter of time before they're dead either from people respawning or just a well laid out defense. Also, repair times are good enough to where you can have your whole base repaired in a matter of minutes.

I think it's pretty decent so far... though who knows what will happen as people get better. Sure the heavy brings it down fast but you can repair an entire room in the time it used to take to repair one item. Additionally multiple people can repair since rep packs are so readily available.

As people get better and more coordinated I do worry some about seeing things like multi-person burner spam completely blocking off areas. However, HOs already go down as least as fast at they did in T1 and T2, a single spawn can do a ton of damage fast with those nades and the quick firing disc.

i agree that its a pretty good balance but i would still like it to be a bit slower...
they destroyed gen, i repair gen, and before i have even charged the repairpack again, they are dropping mortars down on the gen again...

a little bigger bases could help alot, as would a few base turrets (simmilar to deployable ones but stationary inside the base)...
and also, i think there should be some kind of limit to how many heavies a team can have in action at the same time....but thats another discussion

They could make a lot of people more happy with the current game if they just reduced the overall radius damage scale. Right now it's so terribly exaggerated and opens the game up to spam-tactics rather than skilled-tactics.

I've done a fair amount of HO in the past coupld of days, and most of the time it's really easy to take a base down. That being said, very few skilled players are playing HD, they are off playing capper, LD, etc. The few times I've actually seen a good player playing HD, it's significantly harder to rape. Some good D and good turret setups might change your mind.

It has a pretty good balance right now, in fact I think HO is a lot weeker than previous versions. A little too week INHO, just a little though.

I play mostly HD/Farmer right now, and I can tell you that with a decent defense it's going to take more than one HO to take down that gen, especially now that the generators have been beefed up some.
Winterlake is definitely not a good example because both bases are easy as hell to defend (Phoenix even more so). Ideally, no base should have only one entrance to keep the HDs on their toes.

HO is actually getting quite a bit harder now when it comes to gens. If the enemy has one HD and some competent LD, you're just going to barely scratch that generator before you're taken down.

As for burner spam, I don't think it'll do much. The burner burnination damage isn't actually very high unless the projectile hit you in the face. However, I've recently started HDing with a speed pack instead of shields, and a rapid fire burninator is something to be feared

Dracus said:

I agree. I think the time that it takes a heavy to get all the way over to the base helps balance out the insane damage they can do by plopping a mortar into the entrance. Once they're inside the base it's only a matter of time before they're dead either from people respawning or just a well laid out defense. Also, repair times are good enough to where you can have your whole base repaired in a matter of minutes.

Click to expand...

Crazy mebers!

the one thing i liked about tribes 2 was the HUGE bases, make for some interesting rape options. this will probably be put into at least a client made map, though it would be nice if there were a couple of official maps like that.

Well, my experience over the weekend is mixed.

All I did was HO (and HO cap on occasion).

If the other team has ANY decent midfield D on maps like Cavern, forget it. The map layout is such that there are only three paths to take, midfield LD hanging round the middle of the map can spot anything going down the map, including the sides. All it takes is one disc to knock a HO off his route to hose them. This wasn't an issue the first day or two, but as players learned to adapt to the maps, HOing on Caverns became increasingly difficult.

Once a HO gets inside of a base, it's over for the other team, at least while the HO stays alive. I do agree - if sides start developing HD inside their bases, and if players start to farm more turrets (which by themselves aren't all that great but 2-3 together can chew up anything within range) and mines, then base trashing will be cut down.

HOing isn't nearly as important as it used to be, at least from what I've seen. Taking down someone else's base isn't that devastating to the other team, UNLESS the other team expends too much effort trying to keep their base up. Players spawn with a decent kit as it is, there isn't much of a reason (except for farmers and HO) to expend half your team to maintain the base.

Having said that, 2-3 dedicated HO can keep a base down almost all game.

That brings up my last point - map design...specifically base design in particular.

In T1, there was a good mix of base designs (in dealing with gens and flags). Some flags out in the open (RC and RD). Some flags buried deep within the base (broadside, Scarabrea). Others kind of a mix, with no gens at all (DX) and flags somewhat open (DX again). Right now we only get one type - flags wide open and gens easy to get to.

Getting the flag (on occasion) needs to be a bit tougher than simply discing the HD off and grabbing the flag. Take a look at Snowblind, - for example. That map was just about perfect. The flag is not wide open, but with a bit of coordination can be taken easily. Raindance is also great as far as the main base is concerned. Really really good HO can live inside of the base, but really really good LD can also keep them out to begin with, with a combination of body blocks, turrets and a shielded heavy at the door who can drop down into the base to avoid the streaming mortars.

I dunno, map design (as I've said countless times) is absolutely vital in making or breaking this game. Let's see some flags WITHIN the buildings for once. Let's see Gens buried down within a base that takes some work to get to. We've only seen 4 maps, I just hope there are maps to come in the final product that encompass design differences. Don't just keep plugging the flags on exposed flagstands and easily trashed bases. Make bases bigger, with hiding spots, cubby holes, long corridors where HO can (if they succeed) bring in an inventory station and have a party. Not all maps, but a couple.

And not recalesence. I'm thinking more broadside-ish.

Oh - and make the base interiors slighty darker (lighting wise) than outside. Everything is too friggin bright.

turn down your gamma and brightness if the light bothers you. finnally, a TWer who hates VIRTUAL sun. what was the name of that t1 map, it used broadside terrain and setup but used different huge floating bases from another map?

the only problem i see right now with how bases are laid out is that the gens/invs on several maps are PERFECT for blind mortar spamming if someone would take the time to learn the spots. cavern and emerald would both be really easy to blind spam.

i have the spots, and trust me, dont use them. the gens and invs are gone before they even find you. good thing i usually am a farmer.

One of the very smart things people may be forgetting is that bigger complex bases mean you're going to have turtles. Isle and winterlake seem like they would be very turtle friendly already but cavern and emerald aren't.

Just something to think about.

As for the burner spam I wasn't thinking so much about how it would kill people but if you could fill a room with it as a HO, I'm not sure how people would be able to find you in time to do anything about it before dieing anyway... especially with the FPS hit it seems to cause.

Asura said:

turn down your gamma and brightness if the light bothers you. finnally, a TWer who hates VIRTUAL sun. what was the name of that t1 map, it used broadside terrain and setup but used different huge floating bases from another map?

Click to expand...

Broadside 2, and it had snow flakes falling yet none on the ground......humm....

The burner is the best weapon for base rape. I have done some tests, and it takes 3 mortar's to kill a full health gen, and 4 burner shots to kill one. You can get off the 4 burner shots faster than the 3 mortar's. Also you dont have to be as accurate with the burner to be effective. I have taken bases down most of the time with a med/shield set up. This might work for you, it might not.

I find this works better and faster for me and my style of playing. Also if your base is raped, all you need is a remote inv set up some where to get suited up and ready to rape.

I also agree that base raping HO's are quite balanced. Most of the maps are large enough that a team can repair a base and get up defense's in time for another assault. Yesterday though on Isle Blood Eagle's were just continually getting destroyed by 3 HO's that didn't let up. Using the rover they kept a steady stream of death and destruction which is a smart strategy the Rover can use in Competition. We were forced to hunt down the Imperial Rover before we could finally repair our base.