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old_skul
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Old
101 - 06-15-2009, 15:23
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funny video, funny thread
 
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Validuz
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Old
102 - 06-15-2009, 16:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mabelrode View Post
I didn't hyperbolize you you did.

Saying Christianity is somehow different than Islam in terms of being or begetting violence is simply false.

The Crusades were all RUBBER STAMPED by the Pope. Trying to split hairs about what BRAND of Christianity did it, does not excuse the faith as a general whole. 'Not really Chrisitan' = No True Scotsman fallacy. The Pope, a position supposedly rubber stamped by Jesus in Peter, eventually said OK to wars in the name of the faith. Same as Islam. Just deal with the truth.
Yeah, and I hear that the Pope wrote the Bible too!!!1

Like I said, it's an idiotic argument. You can't hold the ideals of "don't murder, don't hate, don't be jealous, don't harm, turn the other cheek, etc." to people who don't follow any of the above.

It's absolutely NO different than me listing off every atheist dictator that massacred millions and then saying that all atheists are the same or that there's something wrong with atheism.

And it's not a "No True Scotsman" fallacy. You don't know what the **** you're talking about. There are rules to follow. If you don't follow those rules, you are not a part of that religion, because you don't represent what that religion adheres to.

What's the one "rule" of being an atheist? Think about it. It's like saying that you're an atheist, but you believe in God. YOU'RE NOT AN ATHEIST IF YOU BELIEVE IN GOD. It's really that simple.

Learn to use the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy properly.
 
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Mabelrode
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Old
103 - 06-15-2009, 16:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Validuz View Post
Yeah, and I hear that the Pope wrote the Bible too!!!1

Like I said, it's an idiotic argument. You can't hold the ideals of "don't murder, don't hate, don't be jealous, don't harm, turn the other cheek, etc." to people who don't follow any of the above.

It's absolutely NO different than me listing off every atheist dictator that massacred millions and then saying that all atheists are the same or that there's something wrong with atheism.

And it's not a "No True Scotsman" fallacy. You don't know what the **** you're talking about. There are rules to follow. If you don't follow those rules, you are not a part of that religion, because you don't represent what that religion adheres to.

What's the one "rule" of being an atheist? Think about it. It's like saying that you're an atheist, but you believe in God. YOU'RE NOT AN ATHEIST IF YOU BELIEVE IN GOD. It's really that simple.

Learn to use the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy properly.
the entire point you keep missing is that DESPITE WHAT THE RULES ARE IT STILL HAPPENS, IT HAPPENS IN AN ORGANIZED FASHION, AND IT HAPPENS FREQUENTLY. In a very real sense, Christianity is NOT only what nice liuttle catchphrases are present in your scriptures. History demonstrates that it is ALSO undeniably conquest and violence, in the name of the faith. Trying to fall back on 'but the book says we love each other!' is entirely fallacious.

Muslims fall back on the trite statement that Islam is a religion of peace; yet you have those bloody verses to show. Christians say 'we are a religoin of peace', but the actions of organized Christianity put the lie to it.

This makes you even more like the Muslims.



Oh and yes, I was using the No True Scotsman fallacy correctly.
 
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Validuz
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Old
104 - 06-15-2009, 20:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mabelrode View Post
the entire point you keep missing is that DESPITE WHAT THE RULES ARE IT STILL HAPPENS, IT HAPPENS IN AN ORGANIZED FASHION, AND IT HAPPENS FREQUENTLY. In a very real sense, Christianity is NOT only what nice liuttle catchphrases are present in your scriptures. History demonstrates that it is ALSO undeniably conquest and violence, in the name of the faith. Trying to fall back on 'but the book says we love each other!' is entirely fallacious.

Muslims fall back on the trite statement that Islam is a religion of peace; yet you have those bloody verses to show. Christians say 'we are a religoin of peace', but the actions of organized Christianity put the lie to it.
Oh, okay, well countless atheist leaders have committed mass genocide in very organized fashions.

I guess anyone who doesn't believe in God is a murder? One bad apple, right?

Once again, you are not distinguishing between the religion itself and people who claim to follow the religion.

Quote:
This makes you even more like the Muslims.
I'm not religious, so I don't know why you're using pronouns.

Quote:
Oh and yes, I was using the No True Scotsman fallacy correctly.
No, you didn't. You're failing to realize that there are rules/prerequisites. You're just spewing **** that you've heard elsewhere and improperly attempting to apply it to this argument:

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_scotsman_fallacy
Errors in usage

In situations where the subject's status is previously determined by specific behaviors, the fallacy does not apply. For example, it is perfectly justified to say, "No true vegetarian eats meat," because not eating meat is the single thing that precisely defines a person as a vegetarian.
An theist can't call himself a Christian, just as someone who mass-murders atheists can't call himself a Christian. They are in conflict with their own beliefs/ideals/rules. That's not to say that a Christian can never be at fault, but if they don't follow the religion and its rules, then they aren't Christian, regardless of whatever they like to call themselves. Catholics fit perfectly into this category.

p.s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Validuz View Post
Yeah, and I hear that the Pope wrote the Bible too!!!1

Like I said, it's an idiotic argument. You can't hold the ideals of "don't murder, don't hate, don't be jealous, don't harm, turn the other cheek, etc." to people who don't follow any of the above.

It's absolutely NO different than me listing off every atheist dictator that massacred millions and then saying that all atheists are the same or that there's something wrong with atheism.

And it's not a "No True Scotsman" fallacy. You don't know what the **** you're talking about. There are rules to follow. If you don't follow those rules, you are not a part of that religion, because you don't represent what that religion adheres to.

What's the one "rule" of being an atheist? Think about it. It's like saying that you're an atheist, but you believe in God. YOU'RE NOT AN ATHEIST IF YOU BELIEVE IN GOD. It's really that simple.

Learn to use the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy properly.
Your whole argument is that "well, some people who call themselves Christians, do non-Christian things in organized fashions." As if that somehow 100% directly relates to the religion itself as the source of the problem.
 
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Mabelrode
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Old
105 - 06-17-2009, 19:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Validuz View Post
Oh, okay, well countless atheist leaders have committed mass genocide in very organized fashions.
Well, not countless, there haven't been that many. And none ever claimed they did it for the cause of atheism, or that atheism necessitated the death of all these victims.

Quote:
I guess anyone who doesn't believe in God is a murder? One bad apple, right?
Your hyperbole does not refute what I said. It's just a panic-answer.

Quote:
Once again, you are not distinguishing between the religion itself and people who claim to follow the religion.
the religion alone is irrelevant. It is nonexistent without people to follow it.

Quote:
I'm not religious, so I don't know why you're using pronouns.
Your fervent denial of an obvious truth makes me suspicious. I don't actually believe you.

Quote:
No, you didn't. You're failing to realize that there are rules/prerequisites. You're just spewing **** that you've heard elsewhere and improperly attempting to apply it to this argument:
No, I made this idea up myself as I was considering what to post.

Quote:
An theist can't call himself a Christian, just as someone who mass-murders atheists can't call himself a Christian.
False. Christians are a huge percent of the US prison population.

Quote:
They are in conflict with their own beliefs/ideals/rules.
If they act on that obvious conflict, then what they are doing is what they actually believe. Again, the system is NOT ONLY what is said on paper; it's what that system drives its adherents to do.

One more time so it's clear:
the system is NOT ONLY what is said on paper; it's what that system drives its adherents to do.

Quote:
That's not to say that a Christian can never be at fault, but if they don't follow the religion and its rules, then they aren't Christian, regardless of whatever they like to call themselves. Catholics fit perfectly into this category.
Look, No True Scotsman!

Quote:
Your whole argument is that "well, some people who call themselves Christians, do non-Christian things in organized fashions." As if that somehow 100% directly relates to the religion itself as the source of the problem.
The Crusades without any doubt were religion-driven. Jerusalem is of no use whatsoever to the English. Or the French. Or any of the people of Europe who answered the Pope's call to save the Holy City from the Muslims.

There is nothing in Jerusalem worth much except it's value as a holy site.
 
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Last edited by Mabelrode; 06-17-2009 at 20:50..
MaxxCarnage
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Old
106 - 06-17-2009, 19:52
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This video is old as ****, how was this not OFN'd?
 
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Skeletor666
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Old
107 - 06-17-2009, 20:10
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wait Muslims can **** 9 year olds?


Wheres the nearest temple I'm signing up!!!
 
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Wowbagger
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Old
108 - 06-17-2009, 20:49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Validuz View Post
Like I said, it's an idiotic argument. You can't hold the ideals of "don't murder, don't hate, don't be jealous, don't harm, turn the other cheek, etc." to people who don't follow any of the above.
And so begins the noble doctrine of they-started-it-first-ism.

What is it you think you're supposed to turn the other cheek to, anyway?
 
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mangaboy
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Old
109 - 06-17-2009, 21:01
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Reopen the internment camps!

We still got those, don't we?
 
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Validuz
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Old
110 - 06-17-2009, 21:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wowbagger View Post
And so begins the noble doctrine of they-started-it-first-ism.
What?

<insert random statement here>

Quote:
What is it you think you're supposed to turn the other cheek to, anyway?
Stop using pronouns. ******. I'll respond once you correct yourself.
 
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TF_Grungir
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Old
111 - 06-17-2009, 21:20
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has anyone asked:

a) what a muslim woman was doing out of the home
b) speaking to a man unchaperoned
c) speaking without being given permission to do so

??
 
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GraphiX
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Old
112 - 06-17-2009, 21:22
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SHUT THE **** UP

except for people making fun of the video.
 
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Validuz
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Old
113 - 06-17-2009, 21:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mabelrode View Post
Well, not countless, there haven't been that many. And none ever claimed they did it for the cause of atheism, or that atheism necessitated the death of all these victims.
Oh, well if you said it, I'm sure it's true. No one has ever died because of their beliefs or anything.

Quote:
Your hyperbole does not refute what I said. It's just a panic-answer.
Your hyperbole does not refute what I said. It's just a panic-answer.

Quote:
the religion alone is irrelevant. It is nonexistent without people to follow it.
How deep and profound.

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Your fervent denial of an obvious truth makes me suspicious. I don't actually believe you.
I don't give a flying **** what you do or don't believe. You're too incompetent to refute anything I've said.

Quote:
False. Christians are a huge percent of the US prison population.
False. Being Christian when they enter and becoming Christians are once again two different things. You're also ignoring the glaringly obvious fact that a majority of them claim to be Christian in hopes of getting lighter sentences or parole.

Anyone with an ounce of intelligence would see that. I'm not shocked you don't.

Quote:
If they act on that obvious conflict, then what they are doing is what they actually believe. Again, the system is NOT ONLY what is said on paper; it's what that system drives its adherents to do.
Righto.

I tell ya what, there's a new religion. It's called Whatism. It's followers are called Whaters. The rule of being a Whatever is that you are not allowed to post on any forums.

You as a self-proclaimed follower of Whatism, decide to post on TW everyday without regard to the one rule.

Are you still a Whaters? And is it Whatism's fault that you decided to post on TW?

I'm sorry to everyone else for this idiotic example, but some people are just so stupid, logic doesn't work with them. You have to talk to them as if they're a child.

Quote:
The Crusades without any doubt were religion-driven. Jerusalem is of no use whatsoever to the English. Or the French. Or any of the people of Europe who answered the Pope's call to save the Holy City from the Muslims.
Oh hey, well feel free where the religion to tell me where the religion itself (New Testament) told them to do that.

In fact, if would be so kind, explain to me where the Pope is mentioned in Christianity.
 
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jerry
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Old
114 - 06-17-2009, 21:47
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validuz

you are a fag
 
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Validuz
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Old
115 - 06-17-2009, 21:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TF_Grungir View Post
has anyone asked:

a) what a muslim woman was doing out of the home
b) speaking to a man unchaperoned
c) speaking without being given permission to do so

??
Just like Jews, they are wish-washy followers of Islam.

The people actually following the religion are the ones we call terrorists. Have you ever seen the devout Jews in Israel? They're ****ing crazy.
 
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jerry
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Old
116 - 06-17-2009, 21:50
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^queer
 
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TonyElTigre
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Old
117 - 06-17-2009, 21:55
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That chick was super lame, at least the Christian dude had some jokes, she just wanted to argue symantics
 
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Mabelrode
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Old
118 - 06-17-2009, 22:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Validuz View Post
Oh, well if you said it, I'm sure it's true. No one has ever died because of their beliefs or anything.
I said it because it's true, not the reverse. Is your best method of arguing doing so at a grade school level?

Your hyperbole does not refute what I said. It's just a panic-answer.

Quote:
How deep and profound.
Truth is often like that.

Quote:
I don't give a flying **** what you do or don't believe. You're too incompetent to refute anything I've said.
You haven't said anything to refute, you've just stamped your feet and used hyperbole as if removing what I'e said to extremes somehow refutes it. I actually do know how to do this, you apparently need some practice.

Quote:
False. Being Christian when they enter and becoming Christians are once again two different things. You're also ignoring the glaringly obvious fact that a majority of them claim to be Christian in hopes of getting lighter sentences or parole.
Can you show the stats on entry to prison + religion vs conversion while incarcerated? Or are you just grasping at straws? Did you know that when the US prison system identifies an inmate's religion, it's the inmate who declares what he is? If he declares, he's one. And why exactly do you believe parolees have a better chance if they are Christian?
When it's obvious that Christians are MOST LIKELY to wind up a convicted criminal?

Quote:
Anyone with an ounce of intelligence would see that. I'm not shocked you don't.

I tell ya what, there's a new religion. It's called Whatism. It's followers are called Whaters. The rule of being a Whatever is that you are not allowed to post on any forums.

You as a self-proclaimed follower of Whatism, decide to post on TW everyday without regard to the one rule.

Are you still a Whaters? And is it Whatism's fault that you decided to post on TW?

I'm sorry to everyone else for this idiotic example, but some people are just so stupid, logic doesn't work with them. You have to talk to them as if they're a child.
Does this have any kind of coherent relation to what's being discussed? Oh wait, I forgot, you can't come up with actual points, so you post gibberish and pretend it's a response. Got it.

Quote:
Oh hey, well feel free where the religion to tell me where the religion itself (New Testament) told them to do that.
The New Testament is just a book, it can't tell someone a thousand years [well, actually 700 years] after it was edited together, anything. The religion's leaders on Earth did tell them that though. For 9 different wars. Plus a few odd skirmishes. It doesn't matter what the text says, it matters what the adherents do with it.

Sucks that history says you are dumb.

Quote:
In fact, if would be so kind, explain to me where the Pope is mentioned in Christianity.
Why is there a Pope, Validuz?
 
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Last edited by Mabelrode; 06-17-2009 at 22:38..
Data
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Old
119 - 06-17-2009, 22:52
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Holy ****. Serious ownage on page 4.

High five Mushi.
 
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Mabelrode
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Old
120 - 06-17-2009, 22:54
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The Crusades were, in part, an outlet for an intense religious piety which rose up in the late 11th century among the lay public. A crusader would, after pronouncing a solemn vow, receive a cross from the hands of the pope or his legates, and was thenceforth considered a "soldier of the Church". This was partly because of the Investiture Controversy, which had started around 1075 and was still on-going during the First Crusade. As both sides of the Investiture Controversy tried to marshal public opinion in their favor, people became personally engaged in a dramatic religious controversy. The result was an awakening of intense Christian piety and public interest in religious affairs, and was further strengthened by religious propaganda, which advocated Just War in order to retake the Holy Land from the Muslims. The Holy Land included Jerusalem (where the death, resurrection and ascension into heaven of Jesus took place according to Christian theology) and Antioch (the first Christian city). Further, the remission of sin was a driving factor and provided any God-fearing man who had committed sins with an irresistible way out of eternal damnation in Hell. It was a hotly debated issue throughout the Crusades as what exactly "remission of sin" meant. Most believed that by retaking Jerusalem they would go straight to heaven after death. However, much controversy surrounds exactly what was promised by the popes of the time. One theory was that one had to die fighting for Jerusalem for the remission to apply, which would hew more closely to what Pope Urban II said in his speeches. This meant that if the crusaders were successful, and retook Jerusalem, the survivors would not be given remission. Another theory was that if one reached Jerusalem, one would be relieved of the sins one had committed before the Crusade. Therefore one could still be sentenced to Hell for sins committed afterwards.
There ya go, o mocking neophyte student of History.
 
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