Originally Posted by Enlightened One

If God knows everything then God knows your answer to the test before you're even born. Why would God bother to give you the test if he already knows what your answer will be? No one with any sense believes that God, your alleged creator, will punish you for fulfilling the fate that he already knows you're destined for.

In short, you're a ****ing idiot.

Some vessels were created in honor of God, and some vessels for dishonor. All of them serve a purpose. All of these vessels had a choice, some accept, some do not. Saul for example persecuted and murdered many Christians, but when the Lord appeared to him he repented. A vessel created for dishonor becomes a vessel of honor. We all have choice, just because God knows the outcome does not matter. Sheesh complicated question, I fear I have not answered it well enough to your likening though : (

The God Who Wasn't There

Edit: I got lots more of these if you feel like educating yourself
I predict that at best you will ignore this, and at worst you will stick your fingers in your ear and make insane humming noises.

Originally Posted by DudeofDeath

I've read the bible several times, but also understood that the bible was written by men, not by god. People that suppossedly follow the book, don't really follow it, they follow it only in the way that suits them at the moment.

Very true, thus what i mentioned in another thread. There are three types of people in this world. Unbelievers, believers, and overcoming believers. Unbelievers are destined to an eternity of torment, mere believers will suffer the fate of the outer darkness for 1000 years before they obtain salvation. Overcoming believers will obtain the heavenly feast for 1000 years and then obtain salvation. If you believe that is great, but if you overcome the darkness of this age you will be rewarded greatly.

Originally Posted by John the Jammer

It's really a shame the way the Protestant solicitation of Christianity turns many people away from the faith.

Yeah, those poor Christians sure have a tough time recruiting.

Originally Posted by Sipher77

I give you the parable of the 10 talents (or in other gospels 10 denari). A rich man gave 1 slave 10 talents, another slave 5, another 1. He said work in my absence. When the master came back, the first slave says he worked with his money and gave 15 back, the next slave gave 10, and the other gave back the same talent he was given saying, I feared you and didnt want to lose the talent so I dug a hole and left it for you to come back. The master is furious and states why did you not put my talent in the bank to accure interest.

What this parable states is that to what much is given much is expected. Each person has a goal line they have to reach in God's Eyes proportional to what they received in this life. God will judge and understand certain circumstances.

What it states is open to interpretation.

It could mean that we should keep slaves, and should whip the stupid ones.

It could mean that god sees us as slaves and wants us to invest our money wisely, so we can give him back more money some day. (of course, this implies that we have an economy based on greed to invest with)

It could mean he expects those of us with the least to do more than those of us with the most, which is rather unreasonable.

Originally Posted by interface

Sin - It's that thing deep within us that prevents us from discontinuing to make wrong decisions even though we are intellectually aware that they are wrong - like me and alcohol...I quit for 2 years but just don't have the power to stay away from it now that my focus on the Messiah has been diluted with the pressures of my new job. These flaws are what prevent a perfect God from being in direct contact with us. Jesus' life was to shed perfect blood to protect us from the perfect God - just like an oven mit protects your flesh from a burning hot pan. To expect that God will bend an forgive you isn't that he hates you - that would be like expecting a burning hot pan to feel sorry for you and cool itself so you could reach into the oven to pull it out with your bare hand.

Anyway, hi - good times

What a surprise that the religious nut is a ****up drunk.

It's always the guiltiest people who are drawn to promises of salvation. That's why born-again Christians are almost always total ****ups trying to stay straight.

Originally Posted by interface

Even if Sipher or even me could provide tangible proof, you still wouldn't believe. The Israelites in the wilderness between Egypt and the promised land saw god in a cloud by day, pilar of fire by night, ate manna - bread that was on the ground each morning like dew, heard God's own voice at mount Sinai, saw Moses draw water out of rocks at least twice twice by beating his stick on them, and numerous other things in this short 40 year period. They were unable to believe, even for a month, after seeing these tangible acts of God.

Sin - It's that thing deep within us that prevents us from discontinuing to make wrong decisions even though we are intellectually aware that they are wrong - like me and alcohol...I quit for 2 years but just don't have the power to stay away from it now that my focus on the Messiah has been diluted with the pressures of my new job. These flaws are what prevent a perfect God from being in direct contact with us. Jesus' life was to shed perfect blood to protect us from the perfect God - just like an oven mit protects your flesh from a burning hot pan. To expect that God will bend an forgive you isn't that he hates you - that would be like expecting a burning hot pan to feel sorry for you and cool itself so you could reach into the oven to pull it out with your bare hand.

Anyway, hi - good times

Awesome another brother of the faith!

Originally Posted by Plunk

Hey Sipher, how old is the Earth?

You ask me a question I do not really know the answer to my friend.

the bible is a tale about the stars... after i watched http://youtube.com/watch?v=KeZB2EsPqGE zeitgeist i always thought of Christianity as a joke.

isnt there somthing about how old the earth is in the bible?

Originally Posted by Sipher77

What was stated prior by someone was that people with high intelligence have a hard time believing in God. They require proof and such. This high intelligence is wealth on this world. Therefore it is hard for such people to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. I am not saying that Christians are stupid.

Does this mean I can walk into the liquor store, purchase my booze with some of my intelligence and no money(for intelligence is wealth, and any form of wealth is accepted currency anywhere on earth), then go home drink some brain cells away and I'll believe in God?

Sign me up!

Originally Posted by Enlightened One

What a surprise that the religious nut is a ****up drunk.

It's always the guiltiest people who are drawn to promises of salvation. That's why born-again Christians are almost always total ****ups trying to stay straight.

I give you the parable of the black sheep. A shepard has 30 sheep. One is lost. Will not this shepard spend much time finding this one sheep and rejoice when he finally finds it?

You can liken it to losing 100 dollars when you have 10000. You will still search your couch, your car, your gf's wallet lol until you find it, and when you do you will rejoice.

Originally Posted by Sipher77

Catholicism has some aspects in its religion that goes against what Jesus stated in his human life. The Roman Catholic Church is the modern day Pharisee.

All Pauline Christian churches (which comprises of the entirety of mainstream Christianity, and any Christian church that is based primarily on the New Testament) go against some aspect of what Jesus taught, especially the Protestant derivatives of the United States.


Jesus--
"Go not into the way of the Gentiles" (Matt. 10:5)
"I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matt. 15:24)
"...for salvation is of the Jews" (John 4:22)

Paul--
"For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, I have set you to be a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the uttermost parts of the earth" (Acts 13:47)
"from henceforth, I (Paul--Ed.) will go unto the Gentiles" (Acts 18:6)
"that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it" (Acts 28:28)
"that I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles" (Rom. 15:16)
"that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ" (Eph. 3:8)
(Acts 20:21, 26:17-18, 20, 23, 22:21, Rom. 1:5, 13, 3:29, 11:11-13, 15:9, Gal. 2:2, 7-9, 3:14, Eph. 3:6, 1 Tim. 2:7, 3:16, 2 Tim. 4:17).

Originally Posted by Hive_Tyrant

The God Who Wasn't There

Edit: I got lots more of these if you feel like educating yourself
I predict that at best you will ignore this, and at worst you will stick your fingers in your ear and make insane humming noises.

The God Who Wasn't There is trash. Stop pretending like it's some sort of scholarly work. It's complete garbage.

Originally Posted by interface

Even if Sipher or even me could provide tangible proof, you still wouldn't believe. The Israelites in the wilderness between Egypt and the promised land saw god in a cloud by day, pilar of fire by night, ate manna - bread that was on the ground each morning like dew, heard God's own voice at mount Sinai, saw Moses draw water out of rocks at least twice twice by beating his stick on them, and numerous other things in this short 40 year period. They were unable to believe, even for a month, after seeing these tangible acts of God.

except they never saw anything we dont see today under the same conditions all of which is explained by science... im also hoping what you've read is a completely accurate account of the story unlike nearly every other story from that time that was merely an overglorified legend.

Originally Posted by Sipher77

Some vessels were created in honor of God, and some vessels for dishonor. All of them serve a purpose. All of these vessels had a choice, some accept, some do not. Saul for example persecuted and murdered many Christians, but when the Lord appeared to him he repented. A vessel created for dishonor becomes a vessel of honor. We all have choice, just because God knows the outcome does not matter. Sheesh complicated question, I fear I have not answered it well enough to your likening though : (

Either God doesn't know the outcome or you don't have a choice. You can't have it both ways. If God knows everything then he knows which choice you're going to make before you make the choice. Yet your religion believes that God (the creator of all man) creates people and punishes them for the choices they make (even though he knows they're going to make these choices before he even creates them).

You're a moron.

Originally Posted by node

Does this mean I can walk into the liquor store, purchase my booze with some of my intelligence and no money(for intelligence is wealth, and any form of wealth is accepted currency anywhere on earth), then go home drink some brain cells away and I'll believe in God?

Sign me up!

What I mean is that money on Earth is a form of wealth. Intelligence as well can be regarded as wealth but not in the monetary sense. When you think of Einstein dont you consider him gifted? Even wealthy in terms of attributes? He sure has more then what most of us have in terms of intellect. This is what I mean.

Originally Posted by Sipher77

Some vessels were created in honor of God, and some vessels for dishonor. All of them serve a purpose. All of these vessels had a choice, some accept, some do not. Saul for example persecuted and murdered many Christians, but when the Lord appeared to him he repented. A vessel created for dishonor becomes a vessel of honor. We all have choice, just because God knows the outcome does not matter. Sheesh complicated question, I fear I have not answered it well enough to your likening though : (

It's kinda like how he hardened the Pharoh's heart, so Pharoh wouldn't let the Jews go, and instead it became a much bigger deal.

He put the Jews through a lot more pain for personal gratification. Why the **** would god do that to people he loved? Obviously he put his own fame above the suffering and lives of his most beloved. This is not the sort of character I want to associate with.

Originally Posted by Sipher77

I give you the parable of the black sheep. A shepard has 30 sheep. One is lost. Will not this shepard spend much time finding this one sheep and rejoice when he finally finds it?

You can liken it to losing 100 dollars when you have 10000. You will still search your couch, your car, your gf's wallet lol until you find it, and when you do you will rejoice.

It's called guilt. People who do ****ty things feel guilty. That's why ****up wife beaters, perverts, drunks, and crooks are drawn to religion. It offers a nice placebo that can make them forget about all the evil **** they've done.