What Principles govern your views? by RoboTek - TribalWar Forums
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RoboTek
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1 - 05-17-2019, 21:09
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Am curious about how the people here have become what they are and justify what they believe.

Will go first as an example, feel free to criticize me if you like but it isn't really about that. These are sorts of foundational values nearly impossible to change through discussion.


I believe humans have innate value, and that value increases the more people they know, the longer they live, and the more they are able to think. This are often loose measures, more guiding principles that hard metrics. I value those people that I know or care about personally *more* than other people, but will attempt to ignore this when dealing with larger populations.

I believe its better when people are happier. Especially when they are still able to create new and novel things while being happy.

I believe that reality not zero-sum, and that through mutual work we are able to output more. I believe people are bad at appreciating 'more' and that condition improvements have something of a logarithmic value, making it worth spreading out good as long as it doesn't reduce the size of the pie.

I believe that people who make the world a better place deserve to have more, especially if they are willing to suffer to do it.

I believe that the best society is the one that allows people to make the most total meaningful decisions for themselves and still function while adhering to previous goals. I believe in personal liberties in this way, because Happiness for me isn't a clear pleasure-seeking metric, but also means people able to do what you want.

On this note, that also means I believe in allowing people to do really stupid things as long as it doesn't damage society. I don't care if someone has sex with a cow as long as society isn't going to be too emotionally distraught by the idea. Liberties are limited by the comfort level of society, but I encourage that comfort level to be high as long as there aren't good reasons otherwise.

I believe that killing people is fine to achieve these goals, and that human life is not sacred, but that solutions related to killing often have a ton of collateral damage and should be looked at skeptically. Obviously they would only be reasonable if they lead to a net good as well, as per previous standards.

I believe that people have little motivation to be intelligent on a larger scale, and therefore will probably be idiots. I believe we should design our systems such that this inherent idiocy will not destroy us. I believe the best way to do this is by developing groups of specialists who have areas where they can not be idiots, then having semi-experts check on them in a gradual fashion such that we can communally error-check the world on a sane level.

I believe that just because people are idiots doesn't mean their desires are unreasonable (though they might also be). People want things for real reasons, those reasons should be addressed, even if the people cannot express the means to address them correctly.

I believe that people will protect their ego at all costs, and therefore any useful negotiations should be on making things that substantial majorities can agree are good, rather than fighting of significantly disparate versions.

I believe that our systems are most easily hijacked by tribalism, and that people will use this as a proxy to replace their own desires without realizing it. Tribal concerns are therefore the most difficult aspect of maintaining a functional world, and should be handled cautiously.

I believe humans are not innately good, but they aren't innately bad either. Evil is mostly a function of being too stupid to understand how to function in the world effectively. Systems that try to minimize evil should focus on making sure its easier to be good for society than bad for it. Its easier to talk to police if they won't arrest you, it is easier to make money in a real job rather than illegal activity if the economy is working or illegal activity isnt as profitable, etc.


Thats the broader strokes for me, obviously I could go on for awhile, but who cares to. What people here use as their base values?
 
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Brasstax
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2 - 05-17-2019, 21:11
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heh heh you said strokes
 
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Fool
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3 - 05-17-2019, 21:24
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Fuck you leave me alone
 
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SuperTrap
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4 - 05-17-2019, 21:24
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These 2 quotes govern my principles

Quote:
All the other stuff, the love, the democracy, the floundering into lust, is a sort of by-play. The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted. - D. H. Lawrence
Quote:
One of life's most over-valued pleasures is sexual intercourse; of one of life's least appreciated pleasures in defecation. - Mark Twain
 
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Flash
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5 - 05-17-2019, 21:36
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That was a lot words. Mine is simple, my principles are based on logic.
 
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ArakAtak
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6 - 05-17-2019, 21:36
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dear diary ...
 
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SINep
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7 - 05-17-2019, 21:44
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RoboTek
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8 - 05-17-2019, 22:12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash View Post
That was a lot words. Mine is simple, my principles are based on logic.
Logic with no governing principles is just computation.

Well, about what I expected. Had hoped people here might be able to put anything into words after I gave an example, but looks like I expected too much.
 
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SuperTrap
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9 - 05-17-2019, 22:14
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Actually dude, if you check the 5600 page thread you will find all the "principles into words" you can handle
 
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Flash
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10 - 05-17-2019, 22:18
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Aw we let him down. So sad
 
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-zYe-
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11 - 05-17-2019, 22:26
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1. there is a default suffering alert notification.
2. there is a cause for this suffering notification.
3. there is a resolution to end the notification.
4. there's a path that leads one to knowledge of how to discover the resolution.
Four Noble Truths - Wikipedia
 
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SuperTrap
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12 - 05-17-2019, 22:29
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First thing I did was turn off notifications

And do you realize that SuperTrap in Russian is SuperTrap?
 
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Ronnie Dobbs
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13 - 05-17-2019, 22:57
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omerta
 
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Brasstax
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14 - 05-17-2019, 23:25
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OK champ - straight through - one pass at your thoughts:

I believe humans have innate value, and that value increases the more people they know, the longer they live, and the more they are able to think. This are often loose measures, more guiding principles that hard metrics. I value those people that I know or care about personally *more* than other people, but will attempt to ignore this when dealing with larger populations.

Innate value? Look around the universe. Any value that is assigned is subjective and only applicable to you from a tiny little human mindset. Once you cease to exist, any "value" that you assigned is gone. You have organic material. That is very rare in the known universe. So, there is that.


I believe its better when people are happier. Especially when they are still able to create new and novel things while being happy.

Happy pretty much means dopamine to humans. With every up, there is a down. Again - happiness/sadness - all subjective and focused on an individual. What makes you happy might piss someone else off.

I believe that reality not zero-sum, and that through mutual work we are able to output more. I believe people are bad at appreciating 'more' and that condition improvements have something of a logarithmic value, making it worth spreading out good as long as it doesn't reduce the size of the pie.

Some people like to work together, some don't. Live and let live and do not judge.

I believe that people who make the world a better place deserve to have more, especially if they are willing to suffer to do it.

Better place? According to who? Again, back to a very self-centered view of the universe. Suffering? Again subjective. Something painful to one is nothing to another. Again, do not judge.

I believe that the best society is the one that allows people to make the most total meaningful decisions for themselves and still function while adhering to previous goals. I believe in personal liberties in this way, because Happiness for me isn't a clear pleasure-seeking metric, but also means people able to do what you want.

Live and let live. Do unto others. Help someone or something out once in awhile. Don't be a dick. Mostly follow the rules. Enjoy the incredibly short time we actually exist. Your idea of a society is completely different from someone else's. Do not judge. Do not force your worldview on others.

On this note, that also means I believe in allowing people to do really stupid things as long as it doesn't damage society. I don't care if someone has sex with a cow as long as society isn't going to be too emotionally distraught by the idea. Liberties are limited by the comfort level of society, but I encourage that comfort level to be high as long as there aren't good reasons otherwise.

Agreed. Leave people to do what they want if it's not hurting anyone else. Don't go looking for things to be offended by. Mind your own business whenever possible.

I believe that killing people is fine to achieve these goals, and that human life is not sacred, but that solutions related to killing often have a ton of collateral damage and should be looked at skeptically. Obviously they would only be reasonable if they lead to a net good as well, as per previous standards.

Hit and you shall be hit. To hit without being hit is a dick move.

I believe that people have little motivation to be intelligent on a larger scale, and therefore will probably be idiots. I believe we should design our systems such that this inherent idiocy will not destroy us. I believe the best way to do this is by developing groups of specialists who have areas where they can not be idiots, then having semi-experts check on them in a gradual fashion such that we can communally error-check the world on a sane level.

There is nothing wrong with simple people who live life in a simple manner. They may actually live a more fulfilling life than someone seeking to become "more intelligent". Intelligence is subjective. One person's genius is another person's moron.

I believe that just because people are idiots doesn't mean their desires are unreasonable (though they might also be). People want things for real reasons, those reasons should be addressed, even if the people cannot express the means to address them correctly.

Do not judge. What do you know? We are nothing. We will be dust.

I believe that people will protect their ego at all costs, and therefore any useful negotiations should be on making things that substantial majorities can agree are good, rather than fighting of significantly disparate versions.

Leave people alone. Then, there is not fighting.

I believe that our systems are most easily hijacked by tribalism, and that people will use this as a proxy to replace their own desires without realizing it. Tribal concerns are therefore the most difficult aspect of maintaining a functional world, and should be handled cautiously.

Many people like to stick together with others who are like minded or come from the same geographic location. Safety in numbers is an ancient human need. Who cares? Humans naturally identify with others who act, speak and look like themselves. There is nothing odd, bad or strange about this. Leave others alone. Do not judge.

I believe humans are not innately good, but they aren't innately bad either. Evil is mostly a function of being too stupid to understand how to function in the world effectively. Systems that try to minimize evil should focus on making sure its easier to be good for society than bad for it. Its easier to talk to police if they won't arrest you, it is easier to make money in a real job rather than illegal activity if the economy is working or illegal activity isnt as profitable, etc.

Good, evil - these are human constructs. The universe doesn't care one way or the other. The unstated goal of most societies is to grow and become stronger. In a physical space with limited resources, boundaries overlap and there is chaos. Humans can act like roaches and rats. It's in our nature. We can choose to behave differently by putting others needs in front of our own. Both are natural human behavior. One is no better or worse than the other. Do not judge.

Thats the broader strokes for me, obviously I could go on for awhile, but who cares to. What people here use as their base values?

Uh huh huh - you said strokes
 
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ArakAtak
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15 - 05-18-2019, 00:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboTek View Post
Thats the broader strokes for me, obviously I could go on for awhile, but who cares to. What people here use as their base values?
Be excellent to each other.

 
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bowl of blood
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16 - 05-18-2019, 04:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash View Post
That was a lot words. Mine is simple, my principles are based on logic.
...? logic is a tool for applying principles to circumstances to decide upon actions. it can't tell you what the principles are. with logic and no principles you'd be as useful as a machine with no code.

then again you don't seem to do great with abstracts
 
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Flipp
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17 - 05-18-2019, 07:01
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jfccccc dis wat whyte trash fukn *****ass disgr8ces 2 dey own races lykka RoboTek b doin wit dey chitlyfe n dem wondrin y dey such whyte trash effemcuck fukn *****ass l0s3rz dat betta off ded smdh lol
 
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HumDumpin
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18 - 05-18-2019, 08:37
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Smoke weed, get money, hail satan.
 
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Amadeus
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19 - 05-18-2019, 09:02
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secular humanism and Wheaton's Law
 
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SeVeReD
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20 - 05-18-2019, 10:43
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I like words.

( anyway thanks Opie for the post and I'll come back and maybe add more words later.)

I liked brasstax's mouthful of words.
 
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Last edited by SeVeReD; 05-18-2019 at 11:03..
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