[Religion] "I want my kids to decide for themselves" by FngrBANG - TribalWar Forums
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Reload this Page [Religion] "I want my kids to decide for themselves"
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FngrBANG
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1 - 11-19-2008, 21:51
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I hear this quite often...

I can't believe that I have to let you in on this little secret...but:

 Children learn by example... 


So--with that in mind--when you claim that a child is being "brainwashed" when introduced to Christianity at an early age what is really happening in your camp of thought? Are you not setting an example of how much you outright despise the idea of the belief in something other than the tangible?

In essence--by your very neglect where introducing the child to an ethical tutelage--AREN'T YOU DENYING THE CHILD years of moral instruction?


Because, let's face it, your public school systems aren't exactly instilling the values of moral behavior as you might have hoped. They're more concerned with 'zero tolerance,' avoiding litigation, and teaching standardized competency tests. So which is it? Depend on the school system or depend on the parent? Whatever your answer, someone else of a non-religious nature disagrees with you.

So I'm bringing my children up in the Christian religion. As such, my children will be taught to tell the truth. They will learn not to prey on the weaknesses of the misfortunate. Additionally they will be taught to actively contribute to those less fortunate. They will learn to consider other, non-Christian, persons feelings when interacting socially. They will be taught to avoid prideful and scornful behavior. They will observe the nature of the Universe--as I have--in order to cogitate our place within said Cosmos. The same as every one of you are attempting right now...

So how am I denying my children the ability to decide for themselves?
 
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FunkMasterPope
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2 - 11-19-2008, 21:53
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Wren
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3 - 11-19-2008, 21:53
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No, you're not denying the child years of moral instruction.

You're giving them years of moral instruction without a religious rhetoric as an underlying cause for the morals.

Whee!
 
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claudius
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4 - 11-19-2008, 21:53
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**** off, ****o.
 
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Mabelrode
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5 - 11-19-2008, 21:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FngrBANG View Post
I hear this quite often...

I can't believe that I have to let you in on this little secret...but:

 Children learn by example... 


So--with that in mind--when you claim that a child is being "brainwashed" when introduced to Christianity at an early age what is really happening in your camp of thought? Are you not setting an example of how much you outright despise the idea of the belief in something other than the tangible?

In essence--by your very neglect where introducing the child to an ethical tutelage--AREN'T YOU DENYING THE CHILD years of moral instruction?




Because, let's face it, your public school systems aren't exactly instilling the values of moral behavior as you might have hoped. They're more concerned with 'zero tolerance,' avoiding litigation, and teaching standardized competency tests. So which is it? Depend on the school system or depend on the parent? Whatever your answer, someone else of a non-religious nature disagrees with you.

So I'm bringing my children up in the Christian religion. As such, my children will be taught to tell the truth. They will learn not to prey on the weaknesses of the misfortunate. Additionally they will be taught to actively contribute to those less fortunate. They will learn to consider other, non-Christian, persons feelings when interacting socially. They will be taught to avoid prideful and scornful behavior. They will observe the nature of the Universe--as I have--in order to cogitate our place within said Cosmos. The same as every one of you are attempting right now...

So how am I denying my children the ability to decide for themselves?
You can give a child years of moral instruction - and as a parent, you are morally obligated to do so - without the fairytale explanation of 'because God said so'. the results will be pretty much the same.

Christianity did not invent, nor does it have any form of license on, morals.
 
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Ares
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6 - 11-19-2008, 21:54
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.
 
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nigafool
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7 - 11-19-2008, 21:54
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what fngrbung is saying is that he plans on raising his kids to be insecure alcoholics who were molested by his uncle
 
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FngrBANG
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8 - 11-19-2008, 21:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mabelrode View Post
Christianity did not invent, nor does it have any form of license on, morals.
And I never said it did...

But you rely too much on something other than religious instruction, don't you?


Or...are you actually being a responsible parent?


Did you just see what I did there?
 
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bam
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9 - 11-19-2008, 21:56
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Why can't you just drink yourself right into a ****ing pole?
 
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Mabelrode
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10 - 11-19-2008, 21:57
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Also consider: Christianity [as an egregious example] gives children a pretend reason to act immorally and allows them to believe they have a divine fiat to do so. Uber-religious people tend to rationalize anything bad they do, back to God's approval in some way. It's a terrible, weak-minded habit that can only spin out of control.
 
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FngrBANG
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11 - 11-19-2008, 21:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claudius View Post
**** off, ****o.
 Children learn by example... 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bam View Post
Why can't you just drink yourself right into a ****ing pole?
 Children learn by example... 
 
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Wren
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12 - 11-19-2008, 21:58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FngrBANG View Post
And I never said it did...

But you rely too much on something other than religious instruction, don't you?


Or...are you actually being a responsible parent?


Did you just see what I did there?
So you seem to have three separate points here.

One, that the school systems have failed in teaching our children morals.

Two, that parents can rely on religion to teach their children morals.

Three, that responsible parents can instruct their children about morals without any religious diatribe.

See what I did there?
 
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Mabelrode
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13 - 11-19-2008, 21:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FngrBANG View Post
And I never said it did...

But you rely too much on something other than religious instruction, don't you?


Or...are you actually being a responsible parent?


Did you just see what I did there?
You don't need to say it did in so many words when you clearly imply it in your OP.
personally I don't rely on anything because I have no kids to instruct.

And no, I don't see what you did there.
 
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Wren
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14 - 11-19-2008, 22:00
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On a completely awesomely related note, the google ad at the bottom of the page was for Heavy Metal Pioneers Since 1986 The "Satanic Jewelry Specialist"

hee hee hee
 
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Milk-Man
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15 - 11-19-2008, 22:00
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The thing is, no one ever decides for themselves. They just compile things they've heard and cling to one. Then they spout off like it's their own.
 
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claudius
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16 - 11-19-2008, 22:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FngrBANG View Post
 Children learn by example... 
I was raised by the streets, nigga.
 
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Warm Machine
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17 - 11-19-2008, 22:02
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Quote:
I want my kids to decide for themselves
Heh...Didn't know you were creepin' around on my parents 22-23 years ago. I think I turned out fine without that 'moral instruction'.

Spoiler Alert...







































It's the parents that instill the morals. Not the religion. ****face.
 
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FngrBANG
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18 - 11-19-2008, 22:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wren View Post
So you seem to have three separate points here.

One, that the school systems have failed in teaching our children morals.

Two, that parents can rely on religion to teach their children morals.

Three, that responsible parents can instruct their children about morals without any religious diatribe.

See what I did there?
Yeah, you just illustrated how many irresponsible parents could benefit from having their children raised under a benevolent religion!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mabelrode View Post
Also consider: Christianity [as an egregious example] gives children a pretend reason to act immorally and allows them to believe they have a divine fiat to do so. Uber-religious people tend to rationalize anything bad they do, back to God's approval in some way. It's a terrible, weak-minded habit that can only spin out of control.
You are basing that off of erroneous information.

Tell me that you will forever now speak the truth on everything...and I'll say you a full of it.
 
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nigafool
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19 - 11-19-2008, 22:04
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fngrbung how come you didn't make a snide spoiler tag response for my post

did you not want to read it a second time or something
 
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Baby Bew
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20 - 11-19-2008, 22:04
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Parents have the first responsibility for the education of their children . . .

I know more families than I care to count who have left the spiritual education of their children to the Church and watched those children either completely lose their faith or move on to a protestant form of Christianity. The Catechism – and the Catholic Church – lay the main responsibility of our child’s education to use, not to the parish priest. And we need to take this responsibility seriously if we want to raise good Catholic children.

Ideas for Learning
Personally, I think the father as the head of the household bears the majority of this responsibility. And I would argue strongly that spiritual education is a continuous, all-day process that can’t be limited to one hour a day. Our witness (as the Catechism goes on to say in 2223) is the strongest teacher of our children. We pass on the virtues by our actions throughout the day, especially those times when we don’t realize what we are teaching our children.

That being said, formal Christian learning should also be a part of your schedule. Time for them to learn the realities of Catholicism that they can then apply to their lives in the future. I believe firmly that if a child really understands what the Eucharist is, they will not stray too far when they grow older. So nightly my family gathers together after dinner and I read and teach for about 30 minutes (older children can go longer). It’s not a big deal and it can be made more entertaining. For example by including stories of the lives of the Saints, you can teach and entertain at the same time.

Recommended Books
There are many, many books that are perfect for this type of learning and I’ll just review the ones that have worked for my family. The best book remains The Baltimore Catechism for the simple reason that it covers virtually everything on the topic of faith. Each night we do one chapter, which consists of a short reading followed by questions to both test your children’s understanding and to elaborate on the topics. It’s challenging enough to keep a child’s attention and push them to learn more. Personally, I read this nightly and on Friday nights we do a “review” session of the previous week’s topics (we often miss one or both nights on weekends because of a busy schedule). Some people try and reject the Baltimore Catechisms as “outdated” or “pre-Vatican II,” but I’ve found them very effective at teaching the basics of the faith. They don’t delve into pre-Vatican II theology (these are for kids), so you can dismiss these criticisms.

Another excellent book I’ve worked into our readings is the Loyola Kids Book of Saints by Amy Welborn. It includes a short chapter explaining what a Saint is followed by about 60 chapters on individual Saints. Each is written in a style that will interest children from about five through about twelve (there’s enough depth, but a simple writing style). The stories relate the actions of the Saints back to the lives of your children, which makes it particularly good for this type of teaching.

Typically I keep it at one book on Saints and one book focused on teaching our faith. But there are several other good books you can work in as part of your regimen (it helps to switch it up from time to time). Here are few others:

During Advent I highly recommend switching to a better themed book, such as A Life of Our Lord for Children. Marigold Hunt does a great job of working in the Old Testament to begin explaining Jesus’ life on earth. This is a teaching book, not just a fun read, so it’s perfect for these types of sessions.

Marigold Hunt added on to the story in The First Christians which tells the stories of the apostles for kids. It is a sequel to A Life of Our Lord for Children and just as good for teaching kids the stories of the Bible.

Another good book to include is Catholic Tales for Boys and Girls by Caryll Houselander. It offers stories of Catholic children that focus on faith, morality, and piety. It isn’t quite as appropriate as the others, since the stories aren’t true, but they are nice to work in every once and awhile for a change of pace.

Other Tools
Finally it’s important to have some memorization involved so that children learn the answers to the basic questions. One great tool is Friendly Defender’s Catholic Flash Cards, which kids enjoy more than you would expect. They recommend for ages 8 and up, but frankly they can be used a little younger as long as you shorten the answers so that they understand. They also have Friendly Defender’s Set 2, which continues with another 50 question and answer cards about their Catholic faith. These are a great compliment to The Baltimore Catechism or other similar text.

It’s also worth noting the value of having Crucifixes, Rosaries, and statues of the Saints throughout your home. Children can learn much by you simply explaining who is on the crucifix and why. Or why a Saint is pictured in a certain way. These are the little things that carry their Catholicism throughout the day, rather than just a set hour of the day.

Teach Your Children Well
There’s a lot of good material out there oriented towards teaching your children their Catholic heritage and I recommend taking advantage of it. For parents I also highly recommend Landscape of Dragons by Michael O’Brien, which explains how to choose what your children should and shouldn’t see on television and in the movies. It’s one of the few books I consider a “must-have” for parenting in our post-Christian world.

I hope my experiences help as you plan on how to best teach your children their Catholic faith. Remember, they are depending on you!
 
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