Originally Posted by KillerONE

I liked BF1942, BF2 looks like a continuation of that, I'm buying BF2 because of BF1942.

BF2 and Ghost Recon2. I will buy them because I liked the first ones. I liked Raven Sheild, but Athena Sword looked like a map pack to me.

Okay hold up...

You ALL HAVE SEEMED TO FORGET that the T:V demo had THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of downloads. I mean that thing lit up the Fileplanet listings.

I know of QUITE a few people that played the demo, and basically said "cute, but not worth the bother". Interest WAS there, and plenty of people DID try it out. If T2 had been the failure everyone painted it out to be, then how come SO many people downloaded the demo and didnt IMMEDIATELY fall in love with the franchise again, since as everyone keeps TRYING to tell me, T:V is Soooooo much better than T2?

People played the demo, came to the conclusion that it was UT with jetpacks, and let it pretty much die on the vine. Accept it and move on plzkthnx

You are right...

That is what the people who are saying T:V is great don't want to see. It totally blows away what they are saying and shows they are wrong.

I mean look at the demo servers. They are even more empty than T:V servers. I mean even the FREE version of T:V can't get played anymore.

Originally Posted by pocketgamer

But even T1 vets that have given T2C a try, really enjoy it, and it brings back the feeling we had when playing T1. I enjoyed T2 release, but it only kept my attention for a few months, but when Classic came out, I felt like I was playing T1 again and I have not put it down ever since.

Even Classic couldn't fix the issues I was concerned with(depth perception, the idiotic inclusion of a missile that tracked players instead of vehicles only, some bugs, and physics that even though much better, just didn't feel quite 'right' when compared to T1). If only TR2 would've had some continued life/support.

Thousands of downloads? With MILLIONS of gamers out there? Better wake up. There are expotentialy more gamers than when T2 was released. That is a fact.

Originally Posted by [AKA]PanamaJack

Low player counts competition withers and dies. With high player counts competition becomes viable.

It doesn't matter how many fanatic competition players there might be because in the overall scheme of things they mean nothing while the total number of people playing means everything.

What the hell. You've got it backwards. Competition is the very thing that drives player count. If the hardcore, competitive player won't touch the damn game, why on earth do you think any random player will?

Games that are designed from the ground up to be balanced and playable on the competitive side, with features to match, do much better than those that aren't, ie. T:V. The players that play the game constantly, 3-5 times a week, those are the guys that drive the player counts and get communities started. Err, kinda like this one.

You just can't get over the competitive player phobia that you've had since being owned one too many times in T1.

Originally Posted by Aesop-The evil one

Thousands of downloads? With MILLIONS of gamers out there? Better wake up. There are expotentialy more gamers than when T2 was released. That is a fact.

Uh, he's right. The demo was waaaay up on the download charts when it was released.

Originally Posted by [AKA]PanamaJack

You are right...

That is what the people who are saying T:V is great don't want to see. It totally blows away what they are saying and shows they are wrong.

I mean look at the demo servers. They are even more empty than T:V servers. I mean even the FREE version of T:V can't get played anymore.

If people aren't interested in T:V yet, they won't be interested in the beta yet. And the way people trash on the game, I don't think they would.

At least in my perspective.

I miss Wulfey :/. I often think about how different things could have been had we kept the original gang together.

The team we could have become is truly impressive.

Drama aside, we had the all the right pieces out of the box in T2 (O AND D). We just lost half of those pieces shortly after release due to crappy and buggy gameplay.

I'm still bitter as hell that Dynamix nerfed my position.

Originally Posted by Flatscan

I miss Wulfey :/. I often think about how different things could have been had we kept the original gang together.

The team we could have become is truly impressive.

Drama aside, we had the all the right pieces out of the box in T2 (O AND D). We just lost half of those pieces shortly after release due to crappy and buggy gameplay.

I'm still bitter as hell that Dynamix nerfed my position.

If it makes you feel any better, T:V totally eliminated mine.

Originally Posted by Wulfen

What the hell. You've got it backwards. Competition is the very thing that drives player count. If the hardcore, competitive player won't touch the damn game, why on earth do you think any random player will?

It never had in the past and never will. The vast majority of people who play online games of ANY type don't give a rats ass about competition play. Hell most of them probably don't even know there are competative ladders out there. All they want to do is join a game and have fun killing and doing things.

The hardcore competative player is an OUTGROWTH of the masses of general players. It always has been. The general population of game players will ALWAYS play games in mass that a small core of so-called competative players would never play.

The sad thing is competative players think they are a real influence in making online games popular when they aren't. It's ego trying to obscure reality.

Originally Posted by [AKA]PanamaJack

It never had in the past and never will. The vast majority of people who play online games of ANY type don't give a rats ass about competition play. Hell most of them probably don't even know there are competative ladders out there. All they want to do is join a game and have fun killing and doing things.

The hardcore competative player is an OUTGROWTH of the masses of general players. It always has been. The general population of game players will ALWAYS play games in mass that a small core of so-called competative players would never play.

The sad thing is competative players think they are a real influence in making online games popular when they aren't. It's ego trying to obscure reality.

Riiight.

All those servers you see out there, who exactly do you think hosts the vast majority of them?

Most of them are by regular people who like that particular game and they are not on any ladder. There are some by people who form teams for competition but alot of those are PASSWORDED to prevent people from playing on them.

Heck, if I had the extra money to waste during T2's prime I would have setup a server just because I LIKED the game.

Even a server list probably wouldn't convince you, so keep deluding yourself.

PJ you're a loon.

Competitive players form the core nucleus from which a game develops. If you don't have them, a game dies quickly.

Originally Posted by [AKA]PanamaJack

The sad thing is competative players think they are a real influence in making online games popular when they aren't. It's ego trying to obscure reality.

Dude, you're totally right. Who wants extremely dedicated hardcore players going out and spreading the word about your favorite game? That's a nightmare for any developer and fanbase I'm sure.

Those egotistical competing bastards. It's not like they're just having fun playing a game or something. It's like they totally are just going into these online worlds to flaunt their incredible e-talent. They make me sick.

How dare they... play... the game... a lot... That just really pisses me off. Them and they're... frequent... playing...

you guys are both right in different ways ... the game(s) are designed for the masses .. completive and non .. the designers want all to enjoy a game when designing it ... it's the competition aspects that drive the game past casual play, BUT, it is not the only reason a game survives ... you need both to go hand in hand to make a god game ... I host several game servers from CoD to B1942 to Tribes 2 ... and only the T2 server was used for competition .. the others were for the casual players ... and all were packed.

Having more players is good cus more people will want to play more.

Having hardcore competetors that play all the time will also make people want to play more.

To deny either of these facts would be quite ignorant.

your right, but it not the only reason a game survives after market