Crom's T:V Impressions from GDC

red_hex said:
i dont like bouncy oob.
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It's not that bouncy.

at least for me, infinite playing grounds are a part of tribes.
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Me too. I still mourn the loss, but again, I'm becoming used to it. In this case it's also a technical issue, otherwise we might have reconsidered the design.

having an invisible barrier in the middle of nowhere will feel terribly restrictive to me in the context of tribes gameplay.
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It's not invisible.

is bouncy oob a server-toggleable option? it sounds like one. i hope it is
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No. And it's not that bouncy,
KP
 
KineticPoet said:
Alas, neither these arguments nor any other so far has out-weighed our team's perception of repair kits as being generally clunky in Tribes 1 and 2. They require an extra key.
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Requiring another key doesn't make it "clunky." It worked worked great in the previous Tribes games. This definitely not justification for removing a major aspect of Tribes.

They're not intuitive to new players. They give a big advantage to players that know about them and a big disadvantage to players that don't. Worse, there's a feedback loop because when players who don't know about them die, they give their repair kits to the players that DO know about them. All this because of one little key and nugget of information. How much skill is in that, really? Those are some very big X's against them and none of our arguments in favour of repair kits have been enough to tip the scales.
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This is why you have single player: To teach new players all these details. The repair kit isn't a difficult concept. I got some of my friends to play Tribes at a lan, and after briefly teaching them how to play I don't think any of them dropped repair kits unless they were killed quickly. You can't remove everything that requires a brain just because CS players don't have one (just joking).
fudge... why not remove skiing? It's difficult.
 
KineticPoet said:
If this really bothers you that much, or anyone else for that matter, you can suggest alternative repair kit systems that might be more intuitive. But we already considered a bunch of those, too
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You could have the repair kit auto-use itself once you take a kit's worth of damage by default, together with a subdued announcement of that event. Of course, you'd also need to add:
a key to use it manually
a spot in the settings to enable/disable auto-use (or tristate to include use on first damage)
a HUD element to indicate presence/absence of kit
a model for dropped kits

which seems like a lot of work at this point.
 
KineticPoet said:
Me too. I still mourn the loss, but again, I'm becoming used to it. In this case it's also a technical issue, otherwise we might have reconsidered the design.
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Should have thought of this before picking the Unreal engine.

My first thought when I heard that T:V was on the unreal engine was "fudge.. no more repeating terrain." Then they talked about how heavily modified it would be, so I thought tiling terrain would be one of the changes. Guess that's not possible...
 
RegisteredFruit said:
Should have thought of this before picking the Unreal engine.

My first thought when I heard that T:V was on the unreal engine was "fudge.. no more repeating terrain." Then they talked about how heavily modified it would be, so I thought tiling terrain would be one of the changes. Guess that's not possible...
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I doubt this fact would have changed their thoughts on the Unreal Engine.
 
KineticPoet said:
If this really bothers you that much, or anyone else for that matter, you can suggest alternative repair kit systems that might be more intuitive. But we already considered a bunch of those, too,
KP
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You probably already considered an "automatic" use of the repair kit after dropping below some health level. That probably just eliminated the usefulness of the kit (even if you made it toggleable).

Frankly it will just take some time to get used to not hitting the repair pack key. I am sure I will be hitting it regularly during beta and wondering why nothing is happening...LOL
 
KineticPoet said:
Alas, neither these arguments nor any other so far has out-weighed our team's perception of repair kits as being generally clunky in Tribes 1 and 2. They require an extra key. They're not intuitive to new players. They give a big advantage to players that know about them and a big disadvantage to players that don't. Worse, there's a feedback loop because when players who don't know about them die, they give their repair kits to the players that DO know about them. All this because of one little key and nugget of information. How much skill is in that, really? Those are some very big X's against them and none of our arguments in favour of repair kits have been enough to tip the scales.
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I understand making the game newbie-friendly.

However, from what I've read in the last month or two about T:V you guys are making it RETARD-FRIENDLY. YES, there are stupid people who will play T:V, but as long as the core gameplay is fun you don't have to worry about them getting confused. Make a tutorial a pre-requisite before playing online (splinter cell: PT does this) so they don't get confused by trying to shoot pepole with the TL and shazbot like that.
 
Yogi said:
I doubt this fact would have changed their thoughts on the Unreal Engine.
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I'm sure they thought of it before picking the Unreal engine, which lowers my opinion of how the devs view Tribes. Tribes was the first game I played with basically unlimited play area. This is one thing which should not be changed, even if they have to develop their own engine.

Besides, how are they going to make TRPG with the cramped Unreal engine? :(
 
the invisibility or the bounciness isnt what i dont like, its the presence at all. being bouncy might in fact redeem it a bit, ala tr2.

but, i suppose if the playing areas are enlarged and there is a good deal of space within the borders like has been said, i suppose it wont be that bad. although if that is really the case then im wondering why were having this discussion over borders at all. are they really just implemented in order to prevent confused newbies running 5 thousand km oob?

or else, i see, the unreal engine cant support infinite terrain. i thought of this at the start but assumed it was such a fundamental issue that either i was wrong or you had found a way round it. still, if you cant beat it you cant beat it.
 
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Rabid Poop said:
I understand making the game newbie-friendly.

However, from what I've read in the last month or two about T:V you guys are making it RETARD-FRIENDLY. YES, there are stupid people who will play T:V, but as long as the core gameplay is fun you don't have to worry about them getting confused.
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I can't get over this... HOW HARD IS IT TO PUSH A BUTTON AND GET REPAIRED? How much more intuitive does it have to get?

fudge... They're trying to dumb down certain aspects of the game to the level of retarded, yet this is Tribes: A game that requires a lot of skill.

I'm sick of them cutting things just because they're too difficult for new players. But the repair kit doesn't even fall into this category... calling it hard is just absurd.
 
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Natural said:
So what's the logical gaming reasoning here?

The health kit gives you a small heal... everyone SHOULD use the health kit properly to give them extra health... so the kit should be roughly the equivalent of a health boost.

The advantage of a health kit is when you steal someone else's kit.

When does this happen? When a player suicides? When a player is killed in one shot via a minedisk? When a player forgets to use his kit? When a player doesn't know to use his kit?

But... when SHOULD this happen?
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exactly,

im not sure dont quote me

but in those new videos i thought i saw when players DIE some sort of health reward....maybe im crazy
 
Well worst case scenario we end up with a t1 mod like t2 that we still hated but at least gave us a semi hard on when we played it.

The health kit was an important aspect to the game in that it could allow a heavy in a enemy base to stay in that base for a significant amount of time by picking up kits off of dead players.

Now A heavy raping a base has to kill someone to gain a kit,Thus it gives the advantage to the spawner. Now I never had to much trouble killing a heavy in a base even when it was the best ho player eventually I would wear him down. But the health kit was the last resort item that if you know you have you were willing to take a risk that you would not normally do if you did not have it. The kit alone has saved thousands of flags from being taken and it is an essential tool to a hof. By removing a heath kit you essectially will force one player to run around next to a hof because he has no way to repair himself if wishes to us another pack like shields to keep himself from being spammed off a flag.
 
RegisteredFruit said:
I can't get over this... HOW HARD IS IT TO PUSH A BUTTON AND GET REPAIRED? How much more intuitive does it have to get?

fudge... They're trying to dumb down certain aspects of the game to the level of retarded, yet this is Tribes: A game that requires a lot of skill.

I'm sick of them cutting things just because they're too difficult for new players. But the repair kit doesn't even fall into this category... calling it hard is just absurd.
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They didn't call it hard.
 
RegisteredFruit said:
I can't get over this... HOW HARD IS IT TO PUSH A BUTTON AND GET REPAIRED? How much more intuitive does it have to get?
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There's a difference between "hard" and "intuitive." I totally agree that the repair kit, for basic purposes, doesn't take much (if any) skill to use. As long as you know it's there, it's easy.

But new players don't know it's there. New players also don't tend to talk to other players, at least at first, and they might not have good friends who can enlighten them. You can't prove otherwise to me because I've seen it with my own eyes for years. Yes, we could teach it in SP, but lots of new players don't play SP.

New players also have a tendency to play demos before they buy. Demos don't have full SP campaigns. And if someone doesn't like a demo, they're probably not going to buy the game.

So if they're severely disadvantaged in a demo because they don't know a certain little piece of information that, in your own words, is EASY for others (who are "in the know") to use to their advantage, they are more likely to get frustrated. "I'm good at other FPS games...I accept that I need to learn to ski and jetpack and shoot these new weapons, but why do I always die so easily?" Frustrated players give up. Players who give up don't buy the game.

calling in hard is just absurd.
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I agree. Find a quote where I said that the repair pack is "hard."

You'll have to keep trying if you hope to convince the decision-makers, and I'm afraid it won't help to reiterate what you've already said...you'll need new arguments,
KP
 
Palapeli said:
hopefully they will kill boosting OOB walls.

Also add some physic effect when going in water

and shootable flag.


T:V sounds someway T2 lakrabit2 ,) ...someway...
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AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I HATE THE SHOOTABLE FLAG

dev members ....is the flag shootable?!??!!
 
axeofblood

But HO have both good skiing and they don't have to worry about the mine disc. I think it'll be fine if they don't get to eat repair kits. That's not to say I don't want them. But I din't think it'll be a big balance issue.

I'm 100% behind the inclusion of kits.

But that said, the repair pack does a lot of good for the gameplay. It sounds so fudgeing easy to use.

Lastly, health patches should be in the game (and thankfully are). They (and ammo spawns) are vital for interesting arena maps.
 
axeofblood said:
The health kit was an important aspect to the game in that it could allow a heavy in a enemy base to stay in that base for a significant amount of time by picking up kits off of dead players.
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This is a good example of a point that has not been raised yet. Health kits give an advantage to people wielding one-shot kill weapons,
KP
 
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