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evilbadz
VeteranX
Old
141 - 11-03-2009, 17:12
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Copy from Wiki:

In January 2009 The Naval Air Warfare Center pre-solicited another contract for "modification and testing of plasma wiffleball 7"[34] which appears to be funding to install the instrumentation developed in a prior contract, install a new design for the connector (joint) between coils, and operate the WB-7 with the modifications. The modified unit is now called WB7.1.

In April 2009, the Polywell was awarded a further $2 million in funding as part of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act 2009. The citation in the legislation was labelled as Plasma Fusion (Polywell) - Demonstrate fusion plasma confinement system for shore and shipboard applications; Joint OSD/USN project.[35] The citation occurs 166 pages into the document, and suggests development of the device for 'Domestic Energy Supply / Distribution'.

In May 2009, Richard Nebel was interviewed in a popular science/futurism blog. He stated: "We are hoping to have a net energy production product within six years. It could take longer, but this definitely won't be a 50 year development project. [...] So if the concept works we could have a commercial plant operating as early as 2020."[36]

In June 2009, the US Navy confirmed that contracts were now in existence for the funding and construction of WB-8, the next Polywell prototype. This device will have an eightfold increase in magnetic field strength compared to previous WB series devices, with the expectation of higher performance. Of particular importance within the Navy contract announcing these developments is the proposal that ...based on the results of WB8 testing, and the availability of government funds the contractor shall develop a WB machine (WB8.1) which incorporates the knowledge and improvements gained in WB8. It is expected that higher ion drive capabilities will be added, and that a ***8220;PB11***8221; reaction will be demonstrated. [37]

In September 2009, the US Department of Defense announced further funding of $7,855,504 for Energy Matter Conversion Corp for research, analysis, development, and testing in support of the Plan Plasma Fusion (Polywell) Project. Efforts under this Recovery Act award will validate the basic physics of the Plasma Fusion (Polywell) concept, as well as provide the Navy with data for potential applications of polywell fusion. The project is expected to be completed by April 2011.[38]
 
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Waidan
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Old
142 - 11-03-2009, 17:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durak View Post
it also worth noting that 50 years ago they said we would fusion power plants in 50 years
I disagree. That bit of dubious information is not worth noting.
 
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DocHolliday
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Old
143 - 11-03-2009, 17:14
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Originally Posted by Durak View Post
it also worth noting that 50 years ago they said we would fusion power plants in 50 years
Onoes a very complex technology is taking longer to achieve then we anticipated. Thanks Captain Obvious!
 
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Goshin
GriftKingXX
Old
144 - 11-03-2009, 17:16
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good recap evilbadz
 
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DocHolliday
VeteranXX
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Old
145 - 11-03-2009, 17:23
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Oh so this project is one of the smaller projects mentioned in a seperate article in Popsci. I knew they weren't one of the three mentioned in the large article last year.

So there are atleast 4 projects that I know of. Well, it is possible the one they highlighted no longer exists. Not sure. There was a Canadian startup that was demonstrating a new method to create a fusion reaction.
 
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Goshin
GriftKingXX
Old
146 - 11-03-2009, 17:28
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smaller project, led by the guy who in the 70's started the ITER boom (he subsequently abandoned it as it would not work). He has been working and perfecting this type for 15 years, till he died. They solved the power containment issue by getting rid of the power grid and containing with magnetic spheres. It wasn't heard about in public because the Navy had classified it until they defunded it in 2006 per Bush.

significant headway has been made in the last few years though.
 
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Goshin
GriftKingXX
Old
147 - 11-03-2009, 17:43
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on an engine to use polywell
Quote:
There are a number of notional engine classes associated with the Polywell, under the blanket name of QED (Quiet Electric Discharge). The first is the ARC concept (All Regeneratively Cooled), which is for high-thrust atmospheric applications such as SSTO. Main propulsive power is applied via relativistic electron beams, which are used to efficiently heat the propellant. The design uses liquid hydrogen as coolant and propellant, potentially also using atmospheric air to increase thrust and Isp. Dr. Bussard's notional spaceplane design used kerosene-fueled turbojets to get up to Mach 2, because apparently at low speeds turbojets are just better...

A related design was an open-chamber engine that raster-scanned the electron beam through the air below an appropriately-shaped waverider vehicle, resulting in a high-performance hypersonic aircraft.

The second engine class is CSR-A (Controlled Space Radiation), which is a radiatively-cooled high-Isp design for near-Earth operations (moon, NEOs, maybe Mars). The high efficiency of direct conversion means the radiators are a lot smaller than they would be for a thermal conversion system of comparable power.

Closely related is CSR-B, which is a higher-Isp variant of CSR-A that uses non-thermal means of accelerating the propellant (travelling waves and whatnot). Good for Mars and maybe Saturn.

Finally we have DFP (Diluted Fusion Product), which is what mlorrey is talking about. The amount of propellant added to the exhaust is very small, comparable to the flow of fusion products from the reactor. This design is about as high-Isp as you'd want to bother going; theoretically you could go higher, but there'd be no point as you'd have to keep the fusion products on board or else dump them uselessly, and you'd lose delta-V overall.

I forget whether it was DFP or CSR-B that offered 76 days to Titan, for a large manned mission...

Quote
But how efficient would it be compared to VASIMR?


Extremely. Isp for DFP is in the range of a million seconds, instead of 30,000. Even CSR-B is supposed to hit 70,000, exceeding VASIMR's maximum Isp by a factor of more than two (presumably after some engine development). The high power-to-weight ratio of the Polywell makes these numbers more useful than they would be if the power source was, say, fission...

EDIT: It's worth noting that the CSR and DFP engine classes each cover a range of Isp, rather than being locked into a single value, and that the ranges for the different engine classes overlap somewhat. Just like VASIMR, the amount of propellant you use for a given input power determines your Isp and thrust.

...

VASIMR isn't "further ahead" than Polywell. It's an engine. Polywell is a power source.

VASIMR is essentially a primitive CSR-B.

And yes, it's further ahead than the DFP drive, but you wouldn't use DFP for inner solar system operations anyway...
 
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aScotiA
VeteranXX
Old
148 - 11-03-2009, 19:13
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It worries me that the technology is in the hands of the government, and therefore at the mercy of whatever political powers-that-be which exist at the time. Would Republicans be pressured into blocking progress on such an important front? Would Democrats?

Would there be any reason for politicians in general to continue pandering to the providers of oil/coal/gas/etc? Would they still be biting the hand the feeds them if there was this revolutionary energy source "waiting in the wings"?

It's hard to imagine a country where big oil and government don't come hand-in-hand. What will realistically happen if the technology comes to fruition?
 
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Last edited by aScotiA; 11-03-2009 at 19:16..
Goshin
GriftKingXX
Old
149 - 11-03-2009, 19:18
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its in the hands of the DoD/DoE
they get funds from the gov, then distribute as they see fit
it would make the navy's fleet completely green and no more needing fuel, for the most part, so they dont want it to get ****ed

so the military will see the benefits first.
eventually the plants will come online since coal and oil are getting bad reps now days. And all those companies can invest into this company or tech and make a whole new slew of profits
 
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cyclozine
VeteranXX
Old
150 - 11-03-2009, 19:38
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posting this from my fusion powered flying car
 
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Edofnor
VeteranXX
Old
151 - 11-03-2009, 19:39
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I thought this was going to be a thread about overpriced gimmick razors from Gillette.
 
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Durak
VeteranXV
Old
152 - 11-03-2009, 19:42
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says the guy w/o any kind of engineering degree
 
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Skeletor666
Merried Man4
Old
153 - 11-03-2009, 20:04
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With the greed of the human race might as well be

 
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Edofnor
VeteranXX
Old
154 - 11-03-2009, 20:15
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I got a degree in civil engineering from the US Military Academy at West Point. I designed the levee system in New Orleans.
 
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Data
VeteranXX
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Old
155 - 11-03-2009, 20:33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durak View Post
says the guy w/o any kind of engineering degree
Yeah, tell us about your Full Sail Academy non-regionally-accredited degree from an arts and media school.
 
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Synth
VeteranXX
Old
156 - 11-03-2009, 21:18
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durak is such a douche
 
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Anguish
VeteranXX
Old
157 - 11-03-2009, 22:00
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^--
 
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Goshin
GriftKingXX
Old
158 - 11-04-2009, 11:54
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so, i hope i can bump this thread in a few months or years
 
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DrJonez
VeteranXX
Old
159 - 11-04-2009, 12:06
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BUZZ CRACKLE
 
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Fling
VeteranXX
Old
160 - 01-10-2010, 19:55
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I want to know more.
 
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