NightTrain
Veteran XX
Very nice. A person has either all rights or none. The former is a product of living as a single entity apart and alone. Once we agree to a social contract, all bets are off.
Vermont moves closer to universal health care
- Thread starter ZOD
- Start date
Very nice. A person has either all rights or none. The former is a product of living as a single entity apart and alone. Once we agree to a social contract, all bets are off.
Public unions are the definition of paying more to get less and you're all for that.
Swensonator
Veteran X
There was a time when slavery was left up to the states to decide
I'm not promoting that healthcare be declared a natural right, just pointing out that our society is quite a bit different from that of 1789, and no doubt our ideas about our rights will change as time goes on.
Automatic Jack
Veteran X
Right blah blah blah, there's no right to health care. Forcing taxpayers to pay to serve you isn't a right. It's a privilege.
Obviously granting that privilege to Americans would be a huge boon to the nation and would prepare us well for the challenges of the new century, but for some inconceivable reason a lot of Americans would give their own early deaths rather than threaten Lee Raymond's half-billion dollar retirement.
Granted, he worked very hard for that money.
Obviously granting that privilege to Americans would be a huge boon to the nation and would prepare us well for the challenges of the new century, but for some inconceivable reason a lot of Americans would give their own early deaths rather than threaten Lee Raymond's half-billion dollar retirement.
Granted, he worked very hard for that money.
"Obvious huge boon"?
Let me get this straight... you think that more taxation and more freeloader support is not only is going to be a "huge boost" to America, but somehow hurt people like Raymond?
Holy fucking Christ, you're so stupid.
that's true whether you like it or not. if you doubt it, feel free to go flagrantly violate the social contract (the law) in public and be sure to explain to the nice officer who arrests you that you never personally signed any social contract and that he is violating your natural rights.
your personal consent to the social contract is not required, it is automatically assumed by your status as a citizen of the country in which you currently reside. im not saying that's a good thing, but that's simply the way things are.
Note the underlined. Context is important.
Two things:
1 - when it gets to the point that I or anyone else have to pay for your Right to carry a gun as your "inalienable Right" and;
2 - The Gvt decides what services / products you have to buy as the rule to have that Right and is NOT considered an infringement of your Rights and mine [collectively ours]
get back with us. Its brutally apparent you dont understand what an inalienable Right is. Your argument is shit. A "Right" should never carry a penalty, whether it is at your or anyone else's expense.
BlueSoxSWJ
Veteran X
"Obvious huge boon"?
Let me get this straight... you think that more taxation and more freeloader support is not only is going to be a "huge boost" to America, but somehow hurt people like Raymond?
Holy fucking Christ, you're so stupid.
Let's see, every other system in the world results in spending at least 6% less of the country's GDP, and most get better health outcomes anyways. If we could improve health outcomes (making workers more productive) and free up 6-8% of our GDP for more productive uses, yes, I'd call that a huge boost.
And if your argument is that it's somehow axiomatic that more government involvement equals more cost, the evidence fails you there, too. The five OECD countries with the highest percentage of health care costs paid for by the government spend an average of 8.2% of GDP on healthcare; the bottom five spend an average of 9.7%.
The social contract as you put it does not negate your natural rights. What you describe is infringement of natural rights to enforce the social contract. Infringement of natural rights does not negate the existence of said rights most especially in the United States which has enshrined inalienable rights (natural rights) in it's constitution.
So we can just agree to disagree.
Swensonator
Veteran X
I pay taxes that fund the courts for your right to a trial. I pay for your right to a lawyer if you cant afford one yourself.
I can go on, it's pretty apparent you have no idea what the fuck you're going on about. I pay plenty of taxes that support quite a few of your rights as a citizen. I clarified in my later post, which you seemed to have skipped.
Costs won't be driven down without addressing supply shortages and regulation that creates these shortages due to barrier to entry. We would save money going to single payer just because of the huge risk pool. Even if it were one huge non government insurance monopoly we would save money. It could be more efficient (fuck I can't believe I am saying this) for the government to do it.
BlueSoxSWJ
Veteran X
The military?
Road construction?
Mail delivery?
But, let's check the evidence, and plot how much of the healthcare system a country's government pays for, and how much of that country's GDP goes to health care:
The military is a monopoly, has always been part of the government not something that has been taken over by government, is terribly inefficient and has been recently outsourcing a lot of its work to more efficient contractors.
Road construction is a monopoly and is terribly inefficient wtf are you talking about? lol, if road construction was at all efficient, Obama wouldn't have signed an $800 billion stimulus to fix our infrastructure. I hear libs all day bitching about how shitty our roads are, and it certainly isn't due to lack of funds.
Mail delivery is a monopoly and in every factet in which it is not it becomes obsolete by the innovation and lower prices of private firms. USPS didn't have overnight delivery or tracking numbers until well after FedEx and UPS, constantly lost mail, for some reason takes over a week to cross into Canada, and last year was $2.8 billion in the red.
Edit: how is % of health care paid for by government a regulation?
Road construction is a monopoly and is terribly inefficient wtf are you talking about? lol, if road construction was at all efficient, Obama wouldn't have signed an $800 billion stimulus to fix our infrastructure. I hear libs all day bitching about how shitty our roads are, and it certainly isn't due to lack of funds.
Mail delivery is a monopoly and in every factet in which it is not it becomes obsolete by the innovation and lower prices of private firms. USPS didn't have overnight delivery or tracking numbers until well after FedEx and UPS, constantly lost mail, for some reason takes over a week to cross into Canada, and last year was $2.8 billion in the red.
Edit: how is % of health care paid for by government a regulation?
Last edited:
Automatic Jack
Veteran X
Medicare, VA, US military, oil production in Europe, police, libraries, fire departments, lifeguards, park rangers, roads, dams, bridges, buses...
That would have occurred to me if there were any regulations...but which did you mean, specifically?
Medicare has a $38 trillion projected shortfall, Medicare donut hole
VA is terrible at everything except the GI Bill. Anyone who is envious of VA hospitals has never been in a VA hospital.
US military was never civilian, is terribly inefficient, and is hiring more efficient contractors.
(idk anything about oil production in Europe, except that gas is like $10/gal)
Police, libraries, fire depts, lifeguards hah, park rangers, roads, dams, bridges have never been private sector and aren't comparable. (besides, libraries, park rangers, roads, dams, bridges are very inefficient). I asked which industry has been taken over by the government and then became more efficient.
You don't think that health insurance companies are regulated at all? Employer based health insurance tax incentive but no individual incentive, you can't buy across state lines, states mandate practically what every plan must cover, some states forbid catastrophic coverage... health care is one of the most regulated industries there is.
This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock, powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Department of Energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watch this while eating my breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the Food and Drug Administration.
At the appropriate time as regulated by the US Congress, and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the US Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank. On the way out the door, I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.
After work, I drive my NHTSA bar back home on DOT roads, to a house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and Fire Marshal’s inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.
I then log on to the internet which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration and post of FreeRepublic.com and Fox News forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can’t do anything right.
tl;dr you're a dumbass.