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Zulu
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281 - 07-05-2008, 22:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stilgar View Post
Please explain the reason the book of Enoch was excluded?
The early Christian father Tertullian wrote c. 200 that the Book of Enoch had been rejected by the Jews because it contained prophecies pertaining to Christ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch
 
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ChiNa
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282 - 07-05-2008, 22:29
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Love your neighbours like you love yourself. It's not a command, it's logic!
 
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Togowack
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283 - 07-05-2008, 22:32
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Well Gil you have to talk to the right people. These catholic people you talked to don't know anything more than you do. They deceive themselves by putting all these rules / traditions in place, thinking that's what God wants them to do.

Catholic people are going to tell you to do this and do that, to pray and be good, and all will be well. They say just make your contribution, discipline yourself to not do bad things and not even think about them. It's a pretty good working replacement for what the bible actually says. Trouble is they miss the supernatural part, by thinking they have it right.

The doing is secondary to believing in Jesus, his name is the name which is above all names and this includes Mary, which makes everyone who thought they were helping you wrong.

I was brought up in a christian home, but when I was about 18 the home broke apart. I was too young to see what was going on, but I felt I wasn't living quite right and needed to make things right.

In your case I'd say to take it a step at a time, because that's how you build something. Firstly pray that the Lord brings you into contact with christians, not catholics. Because once you agree in Jesus name on anything in prayer with true christians, you can consider the matter resolved.

Especially if you can find more than one. I strongly believe that the more that agree on something the better, while two are a sure thing, three expedites it and makes it happen faster. You need these people in your life to set you straight and talk these things over with anyways.
 
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Lothar of the Hillpeople
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284 - 07-05-2008, 22:42
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Originally Posted by Togowack View Post
I have alot of problems to deal with myself that are more immediate. When it comes to these kinds of problems, honestly I don't pray, but I have given quite a bit of money. See the money hurts more than just a little prayer. But when you give you feel good about it too.
This is kind of side stepping the real point of his post. Why is God giving you a jeep when he could be busy feeding starving children around the world? And putting an end to suffering?

Edit: Going to work, so I won't be able to view this lovely thread again until much later.
 
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ChiNa
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285 - 07-05-2008, 22:48
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Originally Posted by Zulu View Post
So let me get this straight, you believe that self-love is the kingdom of god?
The greek word for love that is used in the bible is agape. Usually the greek words used for love are eros or filia, so what is meant by this unusual choice of words? It's used to describe a type of love that's indiscriminate. A type of love that dissolves boundaries, love that does not have a will or any clear cause. It's not a love just for yourself as it is for both yourself and others.

I can only describe it as a sense of being flooded - as though someone pulled a lever and opened a watergate. It just happend - I stumbled upon it. I can't say I was really seeking for it. It was like pulling a book from the shelf and accidentaly falling through a trap door right into the Kingdom of God.
 
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Gil
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Old
286 - 07-05-2008, 22:50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Togowack View Post
Well Gil you have to talk to the right people. These catholic people you talked to don't know anything more than you do. They deceive themselves by putting all these rules / traditions in place, thinking that's what God wants them to do.

Catholic people are going to tell you to do this and do that, to pray and be good, and all will be well. They say just make your contribution, discipline yourself to not do bad things and not even think about them. It's a pretty good working replacement for what the bible actually says. Trouble is they miss the supernatural part, by thinking they have it right.

The doing is secondary to believing in Jesus, his name is the name which is above all names and this includes Mary, which makes everyone who thought they were helping you wrong.

I was brought up in a christian home, but when I was about 18 the home broke apart. I was too young to see what was going on, but I felt I wasn't living quite right and needed to make things right.

In your case I'd say to take it a step at a time, because that's how you build something. Firstly pray that the Lord brings you into contact with christians, not catholics. Because once you agree in Jesus name on anything in prayer with true christians, you can consider the matter resolved.

Especially if you can find more than one. I strongly believe that the more that agree on something the better, while two are a sure thing, three expedites it and makes it happen faster. You need these people in your life to set you straight and talk these things over with anyways.
When I was in middle school, I tagged along with my sister to a bible study her friends had set up (she was in high school). We read and prayed and sang once a week.


You keep telling me that I've been doing it wrong. I'm telling you I did everything right and it didn't work for me.

You keep telling me that I was listening to the wrong people. How do I know I'm supposed to listen to you?

You keep saying that if I keep going on, then all will be ok. I went along with that thinking for 20 years and things kept getting WORSE until I STOPPED believing.


I know you won't believe me. Hell, you think I still believe. No, god doesn't exist. I refuse to believe. I'm working on fixing myself, and I am more important to me than any religion will say god is.
 
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Sircle
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Old
287 - 07-05-2008, 22:53
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T265AVpp_2M
 
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nada
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288 - 07-05-2008, 22:56
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Are you peoples loves so ****ing boring that you can really carry this conversation on this long????????
 
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Last edited by nada; 07-05-2008 at 22:58..
Togowack
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289 - 07-05-2008, 22:57
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I paid $2800 for the jeep, which was pretty reasonable. I gave at least that much to church in that year, with plenty left over. Also, in church when we pray for these other countries, I agree with them.

The years go by and I look, I think it was God's way of showing me that he was good to his word. Just a way of building faith in me. Although it ended up being a bit of a curse.

Y'know what the bible says?
Quote:
Malachi 3:9

"You are under a curse -- the whole nation of you -- because you are robbing me."
"'Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,' says the Lord Almighty, 'see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.'"
After you read this, a Jeep isn't much to ask.
Quote:
3:12

'Then all the nations will call you blessed, for yours will be a delightful land,' says the Lord Almighty."
The reason some countries stuck in poverty.

James 4:2-3
Quote:
2You want something but don't get it. You kill and covet, but you cannot have what you want. You quarrel and fight. You do not have, because you do not ask God. 3When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.
Although my experience has shown me you can still get it, but it will destroy you.
 
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Last edited by Togowack; 07-05-2008 at 23:00..
Togowack
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290 - 07-05-2008, 22:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil View Post
When I was in middle school, I tagged along with my sister to a bible study her friends had set up (she was in high school). We read and prayed and sang once a week.


You keep telling me that I've been doing it wrong. I'm telling you I did everything right and it didn't work for me.

You keep telling me that I was listening to the wrong people. How do I know I'm supposed to listen to you?

You keep saying that if I keep going on, then all will be ok. I went along with that thinking for 20 years and things kept getting WORSE until I STOPPED believing.


I know you won't believe me. Hell, you think I still believe. No, god doesn't exist. I refuse to believe. I'm working on fixing myself, and I am more important to me than any religion will say god is.
I understand you are working within the Catholic religion, with Catholic people. It doesn't surprise me at all that you are where you're at.
 
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Gil
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291 - 07-05-2008, 23:01
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If you hold control over your life, you can control what has power over you. You can see problems before they come, and stop them from "destroying you".
 
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Gil
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292 - 07-05-2008, 23:02
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I haven't been working within the catholic religion for 6 years.


You don't even know me. How can you "not be surprised" at where I at if you don't know where I'm at?
 
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Sipher77
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293 - 07-05-2008, 23:19
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Originally Posted by ChiNa View Post
One of the most notable lines in the New Testament is uttered by Pontius Pilatus.

"Truth, what is truth?" (John 14:6)

Faith requires the acceptance of an absolute Truth. That's a truth written with a capital T, a truth provided by God himself. I rejected the notion of faith and rejected the doctrine that salvation would be granted only to those who would accept such an absolute truth blindly, without firm evidence to support it.

Instead, I reasoned that a person would have to discover truth by determining values. A person would have to weigh and compare values, examine contrasting opinions, judge the merit of different believes and be brave enough to face evidence that points to you being wrong. Truth is not a given and blind acceptance of truth it is not a virtue. You have to work to find Truth, it's a struggle.

Israel was the name YHVH gave to Jacob after he blessed him. According to the bible an Israelite is "he who struggled with God and prevailed". I really enjoy this idea. Not to blindly accept what you're told, but to wrestle with God as a way to find value and to find truth.
"And ye shall seek me, and find me when ye shall search for me with all your heart."
(Jeremiah 29:13)

Biblical quote that supports what you have said. I agree with what you say, that blind faith is perhaps not as strong as weighing many points and eventually turning to God as an absolute truth.

I do believe that believers first start out weak and they at first need the blind faith, but as they mature through their spirtual life, they will eventually accept God as a truth and not merely through faith.

Though my belief in the Lord is strong, I know that I have much work to do to realize him as Truth, such like i know the truth in the air and the sky.
 
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Togowack
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294 - 07-05-2008, 23:28
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Ger I know a guy that came from the JW religion. The problem with you and him is both of you come from a similar religion to Christianity and so there is alot of conflict still. Not only that but you said in one of your posts that when you were trying to seek God, all these Catholic people were commending you and encouraging you telling you that it was going to be ok.

The family of believers is a family, so you need to find at least one christian, and the right one, who you can talk to. Every christian I've come across these last few years has always been willing to agree in prayer over these things. Keep in mind, when you agree with another Christian, you are putting their word on the line as well, and that counts for something in God's sight.

Jesus believing Christians. Not JW's, not Mormons, not Catholics, or any of these other religions. Pray and ask that God brings you into contact with one, and I bet he will.
 
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Sipher77
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295 - 07-05-2008, 23:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScooBySnaCk View Post
to be a noble person in real life takes acts of humility. I try but fail so far
Maybe you need a guide in your life to help you? Jesus was an incredibly selfless a noble person. Regardless if you believe in his divinity or not, if you merely try to imitate his noble behavior, you will find something there I assure you.
 
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Sipher77
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296 - 07-05-2008, 23:32
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Originally Posted by escapedturkey View Post
Why would anyone come here to preach religion? It's like trying to find fresh fruit in a garbage bin that's been sitting there for 6 months.
If you look at the life of Jesus Christ, you will see he did not come for the righteous, but for the sinners themselves. He dined, communed, and prayed for the tax collectors and harlots of the world, to give them a chance at redemption, and many of these people were the strongest of believers, for once was lost has now been found, according to the Word.
 
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Sipher77
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297 - 07-05-2008, 23:34
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Originally Posted by escapedturkey View Post
Was jesus a communist, capitalist, or socialist?
If you are stating what economy he would have preferred in this world of sin (and by looking at his actions and what he said), I would have to infer that he was a communist, because he preached giving to the poor to such an extreme, that you would have to conclude he wanted everyone to be equal.

Just a guess.
 
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Togowack
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298 - 07-05-2008, 23:42
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Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.***8211;Matt. 18:20

There is nothing in this world like what it is to have the presence of the holy spirit in a place.

"Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven." - Matthew 18:19

The best way to get something done.
 
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Sipher77
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299 - 07-05-2008, 23:46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothar of the Hillpeople View Post
This is kind of side stepping the real point of his post. Why is God giving you a jeep when he could be busy feeding starving children around the world? And putting an end to suffering?

Edit: Going to work, so I won't be able to view this lovely thread again until much later.
Though this may be a controversial topic, some believe that some of the reasons why certain groups of people are not blessed is because of certain curses and such that happened during the Old Testament. One example of a curse being applied to someone is the Mark of Cain. Cain was a cultivator of crops and Abel was a sheperd. When they sacrificed their mutal sacrifices (cain with his crops and Abel with some from his flock) God found favor with Abel. Cain out of jealously killed Abel. As a result God cursed him and gave him the Mark. The curse resulted in him not being able to use the ground to grow crops, and therefore it is assumed he became more nomadic, not being able to grow crops.

Some assume the Mark was being black and when you look at Africa in comparision to the rest of the world, it has fertility problems and thus the lack of food.

Please do not take this the wrong way, I do not mean to be racist, but I merely bring up a point of how some people interpret the curse of Cain.
 
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Sipher77
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300 - 07-06-2008, 00:01
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Originally Posted by orbital 123 View Post
The only proof you can offer is Biblical end time prophecy. Anything else won't work on most people. Even if you acted like Christ himself you wouldn't convince most people that there is any truth to what you are saying. They will just think you are an idiot and easily taken advantage of. Now, if you can point out specific events in the Bible that were prophecied and that have occured in modern times. Then you have some ground to stand on.
In terms of giving atheists, "real proof", I think this is a splendid idea. Yet I already see the arguments that would arise against it.

I could argue all the prophecy of the 7 seals that opened after Christs death.

First seal: White Horse and its rider, conquering and to conquer. This represents the spreading of the Gospel of the Word. Accomplished.

Second seal: Red Hourse and its rider, authority was given to take peace from the earth. This represents the spread of war. All of the most violent wars have happened after Christs death. The Civil War, WWI, WWII, Crusades, blah blah blah. Accomplished.

Third seal: Black Horse and its rider. Choenix of wheat for a denarius and three choenixes of barely for a denarius. But spare the oil and wine. Increase of famine and starvation. Oil and wine representing things of man's pleasure, well still there. Accomplished.

Fourth seal: Pale Horse and its rider. Rampant death. 4th part of the earth given to kill with sword, famine, and beasts of the earth. I think of the Black Death, Aids, Cancer, current war, etc. Accomplished.

The rest is kind of pending...
 
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